2017 - 1 Or 2 Fixed Race Nights And When?

[acef]

I wouldn't apply for something that wasn't viable. So for those PL teams that haven't, I'd argue it's not currently something that would work for their particular circumstances.

 

However that argument isn't relevant, or won't be, if the EL gets its act together in respect of race night, no doubling up clashes etc etc. I could go on. If the product and stepping up becomes viable then you'd do it. The landscape next season will be completely different if what needs to be done, is done.

[E I Addio]

The reason is simple teams will turn up with there full side rather half the side missing ... Eastie and Leics had speedway on sat night but if teams up full of weak guests and rr the fans won't turn up .... Sweden have speedway on a Tuesday and it's not a problem at all ...once you change a race night people soon get used to it ..I remember at Swindon when they lost sat nights and how it would be the end of the world ....but after a couple of seasons people soon got there heads around it and it was soon forgotten .

I understand the guest problem but crowds are much smaller now than when Swindon changed their race night. You talk about a couple of seasons and people got their heads round it but on present crowd levels can most clubs afford to go under the breadline for a couple of seasons before picking up again ? Whichever way you play it their are problems, especially as with only 8 EL clubs we cannot afford a single one to drop down to PL or worse still close completely.

 

The BSPA were meeting today so we should have some more info by their fans forum on Sunday, but don't expect a quick fix.

[stevebrum]

And who are these PL clubs wanting to step up and why have they not applied to step up until now?

One look at Birmingham or Leicester shows it's not an easy task stepping up, even more so for those clubs that will need to change their race nights.

To be fair Ipswich have said they would back EL if it's suits them, Glasgow have shown an interest for 2017 and with Sheffield who now have forward thinking promotion at the helm there is 3 very possibilities.

[orion]

I understand the guest problem but crowds are much smaller now than when Swindon changed their race night. You talk about a couple of seasons and people got their heads round it but on present crowd levels can most clubs afford to go under the breadline for a couple of seasons before picking up again ? Whichever way you play it their are problems, especially as with only 8 EL clubs we cannot afford a single one to drop down to PL or worse still close completely.

 

The BSPA were meeting today so we should have some more info by their fans forum on Sunday, but don't expect a quick fix.

The crowds have fallen with the drop in standard ...what I guess what we all agree with is whatever they do expect them to make a total hash of it .

[SteveEvans]

Monday and Wednesday make sense given the main issue we have is double up riders missing inflicted from our own rules - no PL on these nights!

 

It therefore defies logic that two teams moved from guest free home nights to Thursday and friday this year!

 

The biggest issue in British speedway now is teams with missing riders. A team without identity is the result!

 

There is an issue with the Danish League on wednesdays but we are not talking a lot of riders there.

 

If you look back to the league 10 years ago, how different it is!

 

2006 - 11 teams, 20 league fixtures plus play offs cup and Craven Shield, plus opening challenges

2016 - 8 teams, 14 league fixtures plus play offs and teams that frankly would struggle to get 30 points in 2006.

 

If fixed race nights raise the quality of riders and mean less are missing, its a positive step. Otherwise I would say a 21 team Premier League (at current PL level) sounds the next best bet at least with quantity of meetings and diversity.

Edited February 17, 2016 by SteveEvans

[Humphrey Appleby]

The only realistic alternative for fixed race days are Wednesdays and Thursdays. Fridays are no use as riders will be off to the SGP etc.. nearly half the time. Yes Poland might run the occasional Friday meeting, but they don't run as many rounds and don't use Fridays as a regular race day so can work around these issues.

 

To run on just two race nights, teams would need to be split equally between them unless the plan is to just run a 14-round programme. Going to 28 or more meetings would mean teams riding twice some weeks and that won't work if there's more teams riding on one day than another.

 

However, he question must be asked that even if the intention is to attract the so-called top boys back, how can they be afforded anyway and what they going to bring in terms of increased revenue?

 

And as soon as their Polish team has a crucial match that they insist they're fit for, the sick notes will be produced and there will be no sanctions against either the rider or their Polish team.

If Friday is viable in Poland then why wouldn't it have been viable in the UK?

Spectator preferences and financial conditions are entirely different in Poland. Do Polish fans have to negotiate the M25 or other busy roads on a Friday evening? Similarly why has top-level speedway on Sunday never been that popular in Britain?

 

Personally I don't like the conflict of 2 days it should be one if we can achieve it. Monday is ideal in terms of planning for the riders and will attract pretty much all of them back.

British teams mostly have to share multi-purpose stadia, so there's no option to have just one race day. Moreover, the nature of the stadium leasing and cost structure of British speedway generally requires a more extensive programme of fixtures than in Poland and Sweden which simply can't be fitted into the season if there's just the one race night.

 

This is aside from the fact that guesting would be impossible with a single race night, as all the other teams would be riding as well (why has nobody thought of that?). Some might say that's a good thing, but nobody's really come up with a viable alternative for short-term replacements at short notice.

If the big boys had only dropped out of British Speedway, say in the last 2 maybe 3 years, and the crowds had dropped literally by a thousand+ per track in the same time frame, I would agree, get the big guns back ASAP, and pay them accordingly..... But, the crowds have dropped away over the last 10+ years, and suddenly reintroducing the big GP/SEC names would only in my opinion drag back a hundred or so tops per track, and this would not bring the finances back into the clubs to blooming well fund them!!

The simple fact is that even getting back 200 or 300 hundred existing fans a meeting is papering over the cracks. The speedway demographic is ageing and without attracting a young audience will be doomed in 10 years or so beyond a handful of amateur tracks.

 

You only have to look at official attitudes to social media and viral marketing to see how badly the sport is being run by those in charge.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby

[chris4gillian]

The only realistic alternative for fixed race days are Wednesdays and Thursdays. Fridays are no use as riders will be off to the SGP etc.. nearly half the time. Yes Poland might run the occasional Friday meeting, but they don't run as many rounds and don't use Fridays as a regular race day so can work around these issues.

 

To run on just two race nights, teams would need to be split equally between them unless the plan is to just run a 14-round programme. Going to 28 or more meetings would mean teams riding twice some weeks and that won't work if there's more teams riding on one day than another.

 

However, he question must be asked that even if the intention is to attract the so-called top boys back, how can they be afforded anyway and what they going to bring in terms of increased revenue?

 

And as soon as their Polish team has a crucial match that they insist they're fit for, the sick notes will be produced and there will be no sanctions against either the rider or their Polish team.

 

Spectator preferences and financial conditions are entirely different in Poland. Do Polish fans have to negotiate the M25 or other busy roads on a Friday evening? Similarly why has top-level speedway on Sunday never been that popular in Britain?

 

 

British teams mostly have to share multi-purpose stadia, so there's no option to have just one race day. Moreover, the nature of the stadium leasing and cost structure of British speedway generally requires a more extensive programme of fixtures than in Poland and Sweden which simply can't be fitted into the season if there's just the one race night.

 

This is aside from the fact that guesting would be impossible with a single race night, as all the other teams would be riding as well (why has nobody thought of that?). Some might say that's a good thing, but nobody's really come up with a viable alternative for short-term replacements at short notice.

 

The simple fact is that even getting back 200 or 300 hundred existing fans a meeting is papering over the cracks. The speedway demographic is ageing and without attracting a young audience will be doomed in 10 years or so beyond a handful of amateur tracks.

 

You only have to look at official attitudes to social media and viral marketing to see how badly the sport is being run by those in charge.

 

Isn't this where the 'squads' idea would fit in??

[Gemini]

 

 

...................orion...........................change a race night people soon get used to it ..I remember at Swindon when they lost sat nights and how it would be the end of the world ....but after a couple of seasons people soon got there heads around it and it was soon forgotten .

 

So you are saying the attendances at Swindon on a Thursday night are still the same as they were on a Saturday?

[E I Addio]

The only realistic alternative for fixed race days are Wednesdays and Thursdays. Fridays are no use as riders will be off to the SGP etc.. nearly half the time. Yes Poland might run the occasional Friday meeting, but they don't run as many rounds and don't use Fridays as a regular race day so can work around these issues.

 

I

Friday tracks have riders going off to the SGP now. They just don't fix meetings on GP weekends. There is room in the calendar for that.

The problem is not a tiny number of GP riders but the double uppers who have PL commitments with PL tracks.

[acef]

The only realistic alternative for fixed race days are Wednesdays and Thursdays. Fridays are no use as riders will be off to the SGP etc.. nearly half the time. Yes Poland might run the occasional Friday meeting, but they don't run as many rounds and don't use Fridays as a regular race day so can work around these issues.

 

To run on just two race nights, teams would need to be split equally between them unless the plan is to just run a 14-round programme. Going to 28 or more meetings would mean teams riding twice some weeks and that won't work if there's more teams riding on one day than another.

 

However, he question must be asked that even if the intention is to attract the so-called top boys back, how can they be afforded anyway and what they going to bring in terms of increased revenue?

 

And as soon as their Polish team has a crucial match that they insist they're fit for, the sick notes will be produced and there will be no sanctions against either the rider or their Polish team.

 

Spectator preferences and financial conditions are entirely different in Poland. Do Polish fans have to negotiate the M25 or other busy roads on a Friday evening? Similarly why has top-level speedway on Sunday never been that popular in Britain?

 

 

British teams mostly have to share multi-purpose stadia, so there's no option to have just one race day. Moreover, the nature of the stadium leasing and cost structure of British speedway generally requires a more extensive programme of fixtures than in Poland and Sweden which simply can't be fitted into the season if there's just the one race night.

 

This is aside from the fact that guesting would be impossible with a single race night, as all the other teams would be riding as well (why has nobody thought of that?). Some might say that's a good thing, but nobody's really come up with a viable alternative for short-term replacements at short notice.

 

The simple fact is that even getting back 200 or 300 hundred existing fans a meeting is papering over the cracks. The speedway demographic is ageing and without attracting a young audience will be doomed in 10 years or so beyond a handful of amateur tracks.

 

You only have to look at official attitudes to social media and viral marketing to see how badly the sport is being run by those in charge.

Friday traffic is generally less than any other working day of the week. Remember most people finish at lunch time, and whilst you used other roads as an example, if I could just point out the part about the M25. Lakeside are the only EL team within this vicinity and they've ran Friday's without an issue for a number of years. Indeed, they tested the water on a Wednesday and the crowds dropped massively.

 

The biggest issue with Friday is Poland may now want to use it.

 

In respect of Sunday, this has long been Polands day. If it became regular on these shores for whatever reason, then it would take off once the idea had settled.

 

Of course there are many permutations to any chosen day, finding common ground isn't going to be easy.

[Wolfsbane]

First priority if the 2 night thing is to happen is to ensure no doubling up fixture clashes, maximising the number of times teams appear with their original 1-7, whether that be for EL or PL teams. If a knock on effect is we get some of the 'stars' back riding then fine.

 

Whichever race nights are chosen must be to facilitate the above, no vested, 'the others can move' interests.

[Alan_Jones]

Another thing to bear in mind is that, if they stick to the original rule, in 2017 there'll be 10-12 riders that'll have to decide on 1 league or the other, having reached their limit of 2 years doubling up.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Friday tracks have riders going off to the SGP now. They just don't fix meetings on GP weekends. There is room in the calendar for that.

The problem is not a tiny number of GP riders but the double uppers who have PL commitments with PL tracks.

 

Err.. yes, but the point (according to some) is to have fixed race days to 'bring the top boys back'. Hardly seems much point going to the trouble of re-organising all the race days if you then have to have alternative race days on GP weeks.

[Notenoughnerve]

We seem to have forgotten. It's a family sport and therefore racing at the weekend is best for bringing young fans. I'm delighted Aces have gone back to Fridays, even though my kids have grown up. When I was a nipper the folks took us to Hyde Rd on a Saturday, not a chance we would have gone during the week.

Running on a night that suits the fans must be the No1 priority.

[mikebv]

Err.. yes, but the point (according to some) is to have fixed race days to 'bring the top boys back'. Hardly seems much point going to the trouble of re-organising all the race days if you then have to have alternative race days on GP weeks.

 

I think one thing overlooked is that most of 'the top boys' who have ridden in the pinnacle of the sport at GP level over the past few years, eg Holder, Zagar, AJ, Janowski, Doyle, NKI, Lindgren, Ward, Batchelor, Kildemand and Harris have all ridden regularly over here whilst the crowds have tumbled and, in the main, not missed many meetings even with the current schedule..

 

So much for the 'top riders' making a positive difference...

 

And lets be honest, if what we are really talking about is getting Tai, Greg, Emil and NP back then surely they will all want to cover the meetings until Poland and the GP/Euros kick off and maybe some towards the end of the year if their Swedish and Polish teams dont make the play offs..

 

A fixed race night should help with the reduction of guests as the ever growing DU's should be more available..

 

As for bringing 'top riders' back? We'll see...

[T.N.T.]

To start with lets take the current set of circumstances. 8 teams v each other twice home and away. in this scenario based on one fixed night we would need 32 weeks

 

What thoughts do you guys have?

If it was 8 teams it would be 28 weeks not 32

 

 

 

It is being aimed at one fixed race night but this would be for six teams (3 matches) with the other two teams riding on the Monday night on Sky Sports. It is likely to be a Thursday night giving a days rest between the three main leagues in Sweden, Poland and England. Wednesday is the second option.

 

 

Teams will have the option of making two team places in the main body a shared role and most likely to be the number one position that most teams will use this facility so top riders can sign up for 14 of the 28 meetings while another spot can be taken up by other riders not being able to fit in a full season like Leon Madsen or Adam Skornicki as examples only.

 

 

Fast track reserves would still be doubling up riders while some teams could use the second shared position to accommodate top Premier League riders who won't clash with race nights as the Premier League would mainly be run on Friday, Saturday and Sundays.

 

 

This should have happened years ago and while the top riders don't come cheap there is another option of running just 14 league meetings which would enable those 8 tracks to also compete in the Premier League with a team very much based on the second strings and reserves who would then be riding at the same track in both leagues.

 

 

There will be issues and oversights but overall it is the best way forward.

[heathen chemistry]

carnt see why the sky deal will have much to do with going set nights. the skydeal will only have one yr left after this yr so whats the point. maybe if its to appease sky so that theylk sign a new deal then arent having too much say over speedway. imo british speedway needs to start from bottom up not top down concentrate on creatin new top british riders for starters and concentrate on making the tracks the best they can be for racing.

the promoters arethinking too much about bringin the top riders over here . but its a total waste of money when they dont perform cuz our tracks are crap

[FAST GATER]

The only way you will get the GP riders to show up every week & commit to an Elite League season is to pay them more money than they are getting riding in other countries leagues .. Give them the cash & they will come ..

Spot on the problem is the cash available in the EL NOT what night you race on ,if you offer enough money they will drop riding else where so there would no longer be a clash of nights problem .

what happens to clubs with a fixed race nights in the EL or PL (by that I mean tenants not landlords) would they have to close or go NL ?

I am not against the idea just trying to flesh things out

Plus this could all happen and the El would still be in the same position it is now or worse !!!!

ATM we have all 5 days being used for the EL aside from Sunday and Tuesday for Poland and Sweden

 

It doesn't sound plausible to move to 1 or 2 days but in respect of EL clubs showing some movement I actually don't think we are to far away.

 

I'd argue the days would be Thursday and Friday in which case Poole/Leicster and Wolves will have to move. That's less than half the league. If said clubs don't want to move then they need to be looking at their own end and the failure to see the bigger picture.

 

Of course the biggest issue will be the PL. I'm not sure how you would get around that, other than binning the DU rule and hoping 1-2 nights will bring enough riders back off the continent to subsidise that.

 

It should be a simple thing but it only takes one or two clubs to stand firm and the whole thing falls down

Yes stand firm against fixed nights

The crowds have fallen with the drop in standard ...what I guess what we all agree with is whatever they do expect them to make a total hash of it .

Also the economy may have had a part in it people don't have the disposable income they had in the past or are far more reluctant to spend it on things such as s/way.

Monday and Wednesday make sense given the main issue we have is double up riders missing inflicted from our own rules - no PL on these nights!

 

It therefore defies logic that two teams moved from guest free home nights to Thursday and friday this year!

 

The biggest issue in British speedway now is teams with missing riders. A team without identity is the result!

 

There is an issue with the Danish League on wednesdays but we are not talking a lot of riders there.

 

If you look back to the league 10 years ago, how different it is!

 

2006 - 11 teams, 20 league fixtures plus play offs cup and Craven Shield, plus opening challenges

2016 - 8 teams, 14 league fixtures plus play offs and teams that frankly would struggle to get 30 points in 2006.

 

If fixed race nights raise the quality of riders and mean less are missing, its a positive step. Otherwise I would say a 21 team Premier League (at current PL level) sounds the next best bet at least with quantity of meetings and diversity.

Unless money is injected to the sport I think sadly( which I don't want) we will end up with a 21 PL within a very short space of time and wonder if CVS &co have this at the back of their minds "if" fixed nights completely mess things up .

[B.V 72]

Sadly i think you could be right Fast gater in a few years time i think it will be one large Premier league(after trying all they can to get the top boys back.But i think its all about the money of which most clubs dont have any more.

If you look at this year the Elite league has only 5 so named top boys Zagar.Holder,Jonsson,Doyle and Kasprzak.The league needs at least 8 as all the teams need a top rider for the league to be competitive.Look at the problems it has caused Kings Lynn and Leicester this year.If you look at the teams in the Elite league this year i think it is the least competitve list of teams i have ever seen in my 44 years of watching speedway.

So going Premier league means we will loose 5 top riders the above 5 who could decide at any time that they dont want to ride here anymore.I think that a large percentage of the other riders will still want to ride over here so the change over as things are now will not be that massive.I m o i think more fans will be lost this year because their team is not competative rather than them not having a top man ride for them.

If we all do go Premier league what will happen ?.We loose 5 top riders and possibly a few others.The remaining riders that want to ride over here would be spread around the league making the Prem league a little stronger.We would have approx 20 meaningfull home fixtures seeing 20 different teams a year.There would be no double uppers to worry about missing meetings.All fans would get to see their teams riders every week and chosen race nights would not be as much of a problem.There would be enougth meetings for the riders to make a living.

After watching top league speedway for 44 years i would love the Elite league to stay alive and if they can get a lot of the top boys plus many other quality riders that choose to just ride in Europe back i would be over the moon but the way things are these days i just can't see it happening(i hope i am so wrong)But if they can't get them to come back in numbers the Elite league as it now is bobbins there are just not enougth quality riders to go around and changing to all Premier league is to me a better option than what we have now.

Edited February 18, 2016 by B.V 72

[Daytripper]

 

Err.. yes, but the point (according to some) is to have fixed race days to 'bring the top boys back'. Hardly seems much point going to the trouble of re-organising all the race days if you then have to have alternative race days on GP weeks.

 

 

 

According to some? Like who ? A few forum daydreamers ? It is very unlikely that more than a couple of GP riders will want to come back anyway. The fact is that Polish clubs are putting a lot of pressure on Polish riders not to ride in the UK and the one who pays the piper basically calls the tune. try talking to some riders about what the situation is like in Poland these days. A bed of roses it ain't.