Woz01 Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Think we will have to agree to disagree on this one .. Do you think Kings Lynn or Leicester would have been struggling to sign top quality riders if money was no object ? I Keep reading on many threads about what riders demands are eg Vans, Workshops , Mechanics etc . They would still demand these things whatever race night they come up with ! Yep we will agree to disagree. Of course they wouldn't be struggling if money was no object but I'm quite sure if it was set race nights then they wouldn't be struggling for riders anyway, Iversen would be at Kings Lynn for example. Edited February 16, 2016 by woz01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Yep we will agree to disagree. Of course they wouldn't be struggling if money was no object but I'm quite sure if it was set race nights then they wouldn't be struggling for riders anyway, Iversen would be at Kings Lynn for example. Why would NKI be at Kings Lynn, if it was fixed race nights? Â It's a money thing, pay him more than his Polish club, and he'll dump them instead..... Simples!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 If you have Monday and Thursday you still have riders flying in from Poland to ride Monday, back out to Sweden on Tuesday back over here on Thursday then off to Travel to GP, u21, GP qualifiers and whatever else on Friday, with no time to prepare for the big ones. Very few if any likely to bite that one, apart from those who want to be here anyway. If the reason for fixed race nights is simply to avoid d/u riders I can't see sufficient numbers of punters turning out on a Monday just to see their own second strings instead of guests. Admittedly the use of guests has to be addressed but the bottom line is the second strings are not really the ones that put numbers on the gate. It's certainly not an easy solution! Sensibility would be consecutive nights like Thursday and Friday. I just don't see Friday being an option but of course i could be wrong! Â Having 2 nights like Monday and Thursday could still work with a squad system as the number ones (and squad) can share roles so one could do the Monday and the other the Thursday. It's going to be a lot of changes next year but we have to hope that the riders will come all the same! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Why would NKI be at Kings Lynn, if it was fixed race nights? Â It's a money thing, pay him more than his Polish club, and he'll dump them instead..... Simples!! Because he'd know exactly where he will be riding on what day week in week out. Iversen has rode here for years so doubt its about money for him, more about what he thinks is best for him to become world champion. Coventry Bees for example had 5 meetings in 12 days then zero meetings in 12 or so days, riders dont want that imbalance. I really don't think riders would drop Poland even if they paid less as its one meeting a week. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 It's certainly not an easy solution! Sensibility would be consecutive nights like Thursday and Friday. I just don't see Friday being an option but of course i could be wrong! Having 2 nights like Monday and Thursday could still work with a squad system as the number ones (and squad) can share roles so one could do the Monday and the other the Thursday. It's going to be a lot of changes next year but we have to hope that the riders will come all the same! I am not sure there will necessarily be many more foreign riders than are here already. Riders like Freddie Lindgren and Hans Andersen have an undoubted commitment to British Speedwáy but do we really want the likes of Jepsen Jensen, the Pawlickis or THJ back with their ( lack of ) commitment?  Job sharing means the same outlay in bikes and fixed overheads for half the income. I can see some of them coming with bikes not in the same fettle as the ones they ride in Poland/Sweden and therefore not scoring at the same level, plus we have seen how some them don't need much if an excuse to go awol.  The only real solution is to get more home based riders up to a decent heatleader level. Scott and Bomber won't be around forever and there are not many coming along to replace them at the moment. The situation is being addressed belatedly but it will be a few years yet before we have 3or 4 Craig Cooks filling heatleader slots. That really is the nub of the problem IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 I am not sure there will necessarily be many more foreign riders than are here already. Riders like Freddie Lindgren and Hans Andersen have an undoubted commitment to British Speedwáy but do we really want the likes of Jepsen Jensen, the Pawlickis or THJ back with their ( lack of ) commitment? Job sharing means the same outlay in bikes and fixed overheads for half the income. I can see some of them coming with bikes not in the same fettle as the ones they ride in Poland/Sweden and therefore not scoring at the same level, plus we have seen how some them don't need much if an excuse to go awol. The only real solution is to get more home based riders up to a decent heatleader level. Scott and Bomber won't be around forever and there are not many coming along to replace them at the moment. The situation is being addressed belatedly but it will be a few years yet before we have 3or 4 Craig Cooks filling heatleader slots. That really is the nub of the problem IMO. We certainly need to work on improving our own but that's a separate argument for next year. It will be interesting to see how the job share role works as competitive equipment is absolutely vital. I'd be happy to see the likes of MJJ, THJ back in the UK because the amount of meetings they ride in will be more on our terms than theirs. And maybe we might just see the real abilities given they only have a set amount of meetings to race in instead of them picking and choosing to suit them instead of their UK clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Looks like it's happening anyway. Hinted that it will be 2 nights by CVS and given that Lynn have moved to a Thursday I guess that is one of them. Makes sense to keep Monday as the other, given the SKY deal. Doubt it. More likely Wednesday and Thursday. Sky showing BV v Poole end of March on a Wednesday. No point having two days if they are not consecutive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john birch Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 I can't believe people are suggesting Friday as one of the fixed race nights. In the last two years out of eight meetings at Lakeside and Coventry, how many did Craig Cook race for Belle Vue. It was either one or zilch. It has got to be Wed/Thurs, with any track unable to use the stadium on one of those nights having priority in the fixtures for the other night. The standard should be the same as it is now until the viability of it is established. But I will ask again - why is Poole so successful. Yes the promoter works hard and the demographic of the area helps, but the race night allows him to attract a good team. His team are always there. The away team are always there (not racing for one of the up to eight teams in action on Fridays in the PL). The whole thing is therefore more likely to retain fans and sponsors. Mondays (B.Hols) aside - don't make me laugh- first day back at work! Two days consecutively and not clashing with the Premier League. Two home and two away and unwind doubling up to force Garrity, Howarth, Lambert et al out of the PL before British speedway disappears altogether. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Doubt it. More likely Wednesday and Thursday. Sky showing BV v Poole end of March on a Wednesday. No point having two days if they are not consecutive. Â Agreed. Makes sense to have consecutive nights. However why would Kings Lynn move from Wednesday to Thursday if Wednesday is one of the suggested days?? Makes no sense. SKY have covered quite a few Wednesdays even some Tuesdays however Monday is still seen as Speedway night on SKY. Â It would be nice to hear from the BSPA and promoters engaging the fans to see what days they prefer but I doubt we are a consideration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Agreed. Makes sense to have consecutive nights. However why would Kings Lynn move from Wednesday to Thursday if Wednesday is one of the suggested days?? Makes no sense. SKY have covered quite a few Wednesdays even some Tuesdays however Monday is still seen as Speedway night on SKY. Â It would be nice to hear from the BSPA and promoters engaging the fans to see what days they prefer but I doubt we are a consideration! Yet I am sure Rosco mentioned fri, which is strange with GPs on the sat and some practicing taking place on fridays. The fri may have now changed since Poland has announced fri night meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) I think, even if we bend over backwards to accommodate "the big" boys, they'll still pick and choose when and where they want to ride... You'll end up with the same few who have appeared over here on a regular basis (NKI, MARCIN JANOWSKI, PETER KILDERMAND) just not so often, and the (TAI WOFFINDENS, MICHAEL JEPSON JENSONS) May appear once or twice, perhaps even JAREK HAMPEL might do a couple of meetings... But other than that, I don't think anyone else will ride here more than a single meeting!!! The squads may exist on paper, but the riders I am talking about, won't come here (it is a money thing) Edited February 16, 2016 by Shale Searcher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) If Friday is viable in Poland then why wouldn't it have been viable in the UK?  The issue now is that Poland are testing the water with this and if satisfied then it will rule it out for the UK next season  Personally I don't like the conflict of 2 days it should be one if we can achieve it. Monday is ideal in terms of planning for the riders and will attract pretty much all of them back.  If certain clubs can't do it then they should drop down, those who want to step up can do if they fancy a crack at the EL. I actually think we would get away with 7 teams so it gives a little scope  But the absolute priority has to be a common goal between every club and that is where it always falls flat on its arse. Too many promoters are self obsessed and cannot grasp the idea of a future and what that looks like Edited February 16, 2016 by acef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) If the big boys had only dropped out of British Speedway, say in the last 2 maybe 3 years, and the crowds had dropped literally by a thousand+ per track in the same time frame, I would agree, get the big guns back ASAP, and pay them accordingly..... But, the crowds have dropped away over the last 10+ years, and suddenly reintroducing the big GP/SEC names would only in my opinion drag back a hundred or so tops per track, and this would not bring the finances back into the clubs to blooming well fund them!! Â It's a real problem, don't know the answers... It's about attracting a NEW breed of fan... That's the outcome required, but as I say, I don't know the solution..... Edited February 16, 2016 by Shale Searcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 I can't believe people are suggesting Friday as one of the fixed race nights. In the last two years out of eight meetings at Lakeside and Coventry, how many did Craig Cook race for Belle Vue. It was either one or zilch. It has got to be Wed/Thurs, . Lakeside tried Wednesday race nights in 2008, and they abandoned the experiment because attendances plummeted, and that was in the days when we still had Adams, Crump etc. Â What reason is there (apart from pure guesswork ) to believe they would be any better on Wednesdays now? Â Coventry, Lakeside, and Belle Vue have Friday race nights for a reason. That's when the best crowds come. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 Yet I am sure Rosco mentioned fri, which is strange with GPs on the sat and some practicing taking place on fridays. The fri may have now changed since Poland has announced fri night meetings. I can only imagine that some are trying to get the 2nd night to suit their own club! Looks like Thursday seems as good as certain tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 I think you'll be pleasantly surprised what continuity will bring. Â A fixed race night with the EL being elite once more, by that I mean the best riders in the world, then the crowds will come. Absolutely they will come. Â Why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't any speedway fan turn up on a fixed night to watch the sport they love with the best riders? Â We undersell ourselves. The product is good, but the way it's organised and promoted is horrific and that is what has stopped people from showing up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANANAMAN Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 E I Addio, on 16 Feb 2016 - 9:29 PM, said: Lakeside tried Wednesday race nights in 2008, and they abandoned the experiment because attendances plummeted, and that was in the days when we still had Adams, Crump etc. Â What reason is there (apart from pure guesswork ) to believe they would be any better on Wednesdays now? Â Coventry, Lakeside, and Belle Vue have Friday race nights for a reason. That's when the best crowds come. Â I think you'll be pleasantly surprised what continuity will bring. Â A fixed race night with the EL being elite once more, by that I mean the best riders in the world, then the crowds will come. Absolutely they will come. Â Why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't any speedway fan turn up on a fixed night to watch the sport they love with the best riders? Â We undersell ourselves. The product is good, but the way it's organised and promoted is horrific and that is what has stopped people from showing up. Pay the riders more than they get in other leagues & they will be here .. It really is that simple . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 If certain clubs can't do it then they should drop down, those who want to step up can do if they fancy a crack at the EL. And who are these PL clubs wanting to step up and why have they not applied to step up until now? Â One look at Birmingham or Leicester shows it's not an easy task stepping up, even more so for those clubs that will need to change their race nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Lakeside tried Wednesday race nights in 2008, and they abandoned the experiment because attendances plummeted, and that was in the days when we still had Adams, Crump etc. Â What reason is there (apart from pure guesswork ) to believe they would be any better on Wednesdays now? Â Coventry, Lakeside, and Belle Vue have Friday race nights for a reason. That's when the best crowds come. The reason is simple teams will turn up with there full side rather half the side missing ... Eastie and Leics had speedway on sat night but if teams up full of weak guests and rr the fans won't turn up .... Sweden have speedway on a Tuesday and it's not a problem at all ...once you change a race night people soon get used to it ..I remember at Swindon when they lost sat nights and how it would be the end of the world ....but after a couple of seasons people soon got there heads around it and it was soon forgotten . Edited February 16, 2016 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted February 16, 2016 Report Share Posted February 16, 2016 If certain clubs can't do it then they should drop down, those who want to step up can do if they fancy a crack at the EL. I actually think we would get away with 7 teams so it gives a little scope e Unfortunately Sky say it needs to be a minimum of 8, so that knocks that one on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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