lucifer sam Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Just one example (picked entirely at random) Marvyn Cox, of Oxford, in 1985 achieved a home BL average of 7.24 and an away average of 5.69. However a guest could have been used based on his overall average of 6.44. Steve, Cocker was fourth in our averages for most of 1985 (he even spent one month at reserve, during which he broke the track record in Heat 2, because Hans had been shepherding around Mel Taylor in Heat 1 to a 5-1), so a guest couldn't have been used for him. Facilities for only available for the heat leaders - at Oxford in 1985, that was Hans Nielsen, Simon Wigg and Andy Grahame. Riders 4-7 in the averages had to be replaced with riders from the National League, which is how Alastair Stevens and Nigel De'ath had their spells in the limelight towards the end of that season, after Klaus Lausch was injured. As for having home and away averages for guests, the year it was used was 2001. It enabled Oxford to use track specialist Martin Dugard in place of the injured Lukas Dryml. Not surprisingly, the Eastbourne No 1 romped to a maximum around his favourite track. It was one of these rules brought in with about five minutes thought, which was then dropped after a year because it clearly didn't work. The current rule used for the last several seasons, average + 5% for guests for home meetings, works much better. All the best Rob Edited February 9, 2016 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Steve, Cocker was fourth in our averages for most of 1985 (he even spent one month at reserve, during which he broke the track record in Heat 2, because Hans had been shepherding around Mel Taylor in Heat 1 to a 5-1), so a guest couldn't have been used for him. Facilities for only available for the heat leaders - at Oxford in 1985, that was Hans Nielsen, Simon Wigg and Andy Grahame. Riders 4-7 in the averages had to be replaced with riders from the National League, which is how Alastair Stevens and Nigel De'ath had their spells in the limelight towards the end of that season, after Klaus Lausch was injured. As for having home and away averages for guests, the year it was used was 2001. It enabled Oxford to use track specialist Martin Dugard in place of the injured Lukas Dryml. Not surprisingly, the Eastbourne No 1 romped to a maximum around his favourite track. It was one of these rules brought in with about five minutes thought, which was then dropped after a year because it clearly didn't work. The current rule used for the last several seasons, average + 5% for guests for home meetings, works much better. All the best Rob Hi Rob I plucked Marvyn purely as an example as to how averages home, away and overall can differ which can lead to an unfairness when deciding on a guest replacement. I still feel that the initiative by the BSPA was the right one but which frankly caused problems when trying to administer same. Vaclav's example highlights the ambiguity whereby his away average was poor compared to his home but his overall average would have proved an advantage when utilising the guest rule. I can't remember the exact ruling but I'm guessing that a prospective guest's overall average was taken into consideration when replacing a rider? I'm assuming that Lukas Dryml's home average (haven't access to those statistics) was quite high at home which enabled Oxford the use of Martin Dugard as a Guest replacement? Edited February 9, 2016 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobnob Smith Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 remember Oxford away to Coventry one year and Troy Butler was missing for some reason so we had Paul Thorpe guest in place of him, so we had Bradfords no 1 guesting for us with Butler only being a reserve for us (and with Thorpe hatred of Coventry) he got 15 pt max I believe ,ahh was a nice sunny day too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 I can't remember the exact ruling but I'm guessing that a prospective guest's overall average was taken into consideration when replacing a rider? I'm assuming that Lukas Dryml's home average (haven't access to those statistics) was quite high at home which enabled Oxford the use of Martin Dugard as a Guest replacement? Steve, Lukas's home average was in excess of 9.00,so he was no slouch around Cowley. But it was an oddity that Martin Dugard could guest for him. There were other anomalies as well across the EL, with second strings and reserves being covered by heat leaders. It didn't work, and that's why it only lasted one season. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Steve what is your opinion of Bonus points? if someone scored 7 plus 3 from four for me that is as good as 10 points a team game why is bonus points not taken seriously.? A few years ago when there way a lot of team riding I'd agree. Today though I'd scrap bonus points all together as there's generally about 3-4 bike length difference between riders in 1st & 2nd most heats today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Including bonus points inflates the averages of middle order riders - with the current race format it would reduce even further the gap between number ones and number fives making the present farce worse still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) The points system should be changed in team speedway so you only score points for finishing ahead of opposition riders. That then solves the problem of bonus points inflating averages and pay packets. Humph, again I feel you're wanting to change things for the sheer sake of it. Personally I think having a scoring system of 2-2-0-0 for some races (for a 5-1) or 2-1-1-0 (a 4-2 or a 3-3) is only going to confuse things for the casual observer. 3-2-1-0 is simple and it works. If it ain't broke, then don't fix it. Speedway's challenge is persuading the general public that a night of speedway is good entertainment and a good night out, compared to all the counter attractions. It's all about the show and what can be done to improve it, not about re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, by making pointless changes to averages and the scoring system. All the best Rob Edited February 10, 2016 by lucifer sam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Humph, again I feel you're wanting to change things for the sheer sake of it. Personally I think having a scoring system of 2-2-0-0 for some races (for a 5-1) or 2-1-1-0 (a 4-2 or a 3-3) is only going to confuse things for the casual observer. 3-2-1-0 is simple and it works. If it ain't broke, then don't fix. Not suggesting it's the top of the list of issues to address, but the system is broken. The 3-2-1-0 system doesn't encourage team riding, whilst bonus points inflate averages. The casual observer already isn't going to get bonus points and many accepted aspects of the sport. I feel people would get used to team scoring fairly quickly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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