Sidney the robin Posted March 8, 2016 Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) We've never argued that, you've tried to claim Shawn was better overall. I'd argue strongly Sam was better in the 80's as well, considering he had only been riding speedway a couple of years when he debuted in England in 83 for just a few meets. Obviously Moran was better in 84 as he was an established heat leader at this point and Sam was having his first full season... after that though?? Sam reached a run-off for the World Title in 85 when only racing in the US... has that been achieved by any other US rider ever (maybe way back)? Moran however was very good that year winning the Overseas and InterContinental rounds. 86 Sam had higher average in the league, 7th in World Final... Moran didn't make World Final. Sam won the Overseas Final. 87 Sam had higher average in the league, 3rd in World Final... Moran didn't make World Final. 88 Moran actually edged the league averages 9.51 to 9.40.. but Sam was 4th in World Final... Moran didn't make World Final. 89 Sam had higher average in the league and only his terrible crash prevented an almost certain World Final appearance again.. Moran once again, didn't make the World Final. Sam won the Overseas Final. I checked BLRC records but Sam didn't actually ride in the event in the 80's (Preben Eriksen x 2 and Ronnie Correy representing Wolves in 86,87,88.. Sam injured in 89). To summarise, early to mid 80's Moran was obviously better as Sam was only just starting out.. after that Sam had the edge in my opinion. No, No,No,😀😀😂 Edited March 8, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 No, No,No, Doesn't matter how much you try to deny it, history has spoken and it's not even close. Run along and watch Ronnie O'Sullivan in the Grand Prix.... oh wait... whoops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Doesn't matter how much you try to deny it, history has spoken and it's not even close. Run along and watch Ronnie O'Sullivan in the Grand Prix.... oh wait... whoops! Can remember Hendry getting spanked by Mark Johnson Allen many times Ooop's, Davis 1/10 to Knowles happens to all great champions. Sam was a great rider but not as good as Shawn in the eighties. Edited March 9, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Can remember Hendry getting spanked by Mark Johnson Allen many times Ooop's, Davis 1/10 to Knowles happens to all great champions. Sam was a great rider but not as good as Shawn in the eighties. Agreed, they can all get beat. You're right, Sam wasn't as good, he was better. How many World Final rostrums for Shawn? How many run-offs for World Title? How many World Finals? Sam only rode for half the decade and did more in that time than Shawn in 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Agreed, they can all get beat. You're right, Sam wasn't as good, he was better. How many World Final rostrums for Shawn? How many run-offs for World Title? How many World Finals? Sam only rode for half the decade and did more in that time than Shawn in 10 years. Again your OPINION only,get that into your head.We are all entitled to ours GET IT ?? rightly or wrongly Sam was a great rider.Was he a better rider than lets say four examples Gollob,Adams, Moran,Sigalos for me No that is only my PERSONAL view is that ok with you.?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 Again your OPINION only,get that into your head.We are all entitled to ours GET IT ?? rightly or wrongly Sam was a great rider.Was he a better rider than lets say four examples Gollob,Adams, Moran,Sigalos for me No that is only my PERSONAL view is that ok with you.?? It's not my opinion how many times Sam was on the rostrum in the 80's. It's not my opinion how many World Finals Sam reached compared to Moran. It's not my opinion that Sam rode in only half the decade but achieved more in that time... Gollob, Adams and Sigalos are irrelevant in the context of the Ermolenko v Moran debate, but fwiw based upon their achievements I'd rank Gollob just above Sam, Adams about level and Sigalos below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 9, 2016 Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) It's not my opinion how many times Sam was on the rostrum in the 80's. It's not my opinion how many World Finals Sam reached compared to Moran. It's not my opinion that Sam rode in only half the decade but achieved more in that time... Gollob, Adams and Sigalos are irrelevant in the context of the Ermolenko v Moran debate, but fwiw based upon their achievements I'd rank Gollob just above Sam, Adams about level and Sigalos below. Thanks for that well done, Siggy for me was a better rider Adams (you said was the same level Leigh never won a title?) Can't have it both ways my friend you are a roll of honour fanatic gospel to you Remember Nicki v Gollob??? .Gollob is MILES ahead of Sam on ability natural talent and achievement, be consistent how can you rate Gollob just above Sam ( what a laugh)Sam does well to be in front of his fellow teammates behind Penhall, Autrey, Sigalos, Moran, Greg in my book only my humble opinion though not gospel.😀😀 Edited March 9, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple.H. Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) Hi Rob, I personally felt that 'Cocker' didn't fulfil his true potential and 1986 really was his peak season. I realise that he achieved better averages during later years but his riding wasn't as spectacular or decisive as it could have been. I have on DVD many races featuring him later in his career and he wasn't quite the vintage rider of 86. Regards He was the dogs testicles at Oxford when he was a youngster, inside, outside and perfected the pit bend switchback that caught many a wily old campaigner out.Great memories Edited March 11, 2016 by Triple.H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 He was the dogs testicles at Oxford when he was a youngster, inside, outside and perfected the pit bend switchback that caught many a wily old campaigner out. Great memories Cox see him first at Rye under Len rated him at Oxford was really decent reached the final in 86 with Evitts (who I liked) had a good career did Marvyn underachieve ? a tough one to answer really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted March 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Cox see him first at Rye under Len rated him at Oxford was really decent reached the final in 86 with Evitts (who I liked) had a good career did Marvyn underachieve ? a tough one to answer really.Evitts I think was more an underachiever than Cox. I rated him from his Birmingham days, and the start of the 86 season he was arguably one of the top half dozen riders in the world on form. It was his second ride victory that through the world title open, but 86 was really the peak of his career. I know he had injury issues, but he achieved far less than contemporaries such as Tatum and Doncaster, who he was arguably as talented as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 He was the dogs testicles at Oxford when he was a youngster, inside, outside and perfected the pit bend switchback that caught many a wily old campaigner out. Great memories I agree regarding 'Cocker's' early career with Oxford but by 1988/89 his form around Cowley had become stale and a move elsewhere seemed to propel him forward again...but, in my opinion, he was never the same rider we witnessed during that wonderful 1986 season when his riding prowess proved inspirational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Evitts I think was more an underachiever than Cox. I rated him from his Birmingham days, and the start of the 86 season he was arguably one of the top half dozen riders in the world on form. It was his second ride victory that through the world title open, but 86 was really the peak of his career. I know he had injury issues, but he achieved far less than contemporaries such as Tatum and Doncaster , who he was arguably as talented as. I agree see Evitts as a 16 year old for Birmingham in a tough BL and he impressed me straight away a nice riding style ( did he ride under aged?). What surprised me with Neil was that he even began to ride the big racey tracks well.He said himself in the Carter dvd that he always had great aquipment he actually commented that Carters was sometimes inferior. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted March 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Tbh in only ever saw him ride the big tracks. Hyde Rd, where he was always competitive, the shay when he moved to Halifax, then odsal where he obviously excelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 I agree see Evitts as a 16 year old for Birmingham in a tough BL and he impressed me straight away a nice riding style ( did he ride under aged?). What surprised me with Neil was that he even began to ride the big racey tracks well.He said himself in the Carter dvd that he always had great aquipment he actually commented that Carters was sometimes inferior. Remember the 1986 World Final in Katowice when Evitts managed to 'distract' Erik Gundersen when the tapes lifted during their second race together. It basically finished Erik's assault on the title that afternoon and left the door open for Hans much to my delight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Beevers Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Really interesting thread. Surprised Tommy Knudsen had over a 10 point average in 1981 because he must of been about 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Again your OPINION only,get that into your head.We are all entitled to ours GET IT ?? rightly or wrongly Sam was a great rider.Was he a better rider than lets say four examples Gollob,Adams, Moran,Sigalos for me No that is only my PERSONAL view is that ok with you.?? But when will you realise we are not talking about opinions we are talking about stone cold facts. From 1985 onwards Sam Ermolenko has a far superior record to Shawn Moran. That is fact. Ermolenko achieved more Fact. I think Sidney dear old fruit you get confused with who was better to watch rather than who was the better rider. Shawn Moran , on song, in full flow, to me was far more exciting to watch then Ermolenko but wasnt the better rider. Mark Loram Tomasz Gollob Jan O Pedersen Per Jonsson All the above are one of World champs. Out of them i would far rather watch Mark Loram race every time. But put it simply he wasnt as good as the other three. Im just waiting for you to bring up the point that Gollob is better than Nicki Pedersen another laughable claim. Gollob more talented but the better rider as proved by the FACT he is a triple world champion is Nicki Thanks for that well done, Siggy for me was a better rider Adams (you said was the same level Leigh never won a title?) Can't have it both ways my friend you are a roll of honour fanatic gospel to you Remember Nicki v Gollob??? .Gollob is MILES ahead of Sam on ability natural talent and achievement, be consistent how can you rate Gollob just above Sam ( what a laugh)Sam does well to be in front of his fellow teammates behind Penhall, Autrey, Sigalos, Moran, Greg in my book only my humble opinion though not gospel. you talk some complete rubbish. For what its worth i rate Gollob over Ermolenko but not by miles!! Sam is behind Penhall and Hancock yes. But to say he is behind Autrey, Sigalos and Moran is a load of old crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted April 13, 2016 Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 Shawn Moran , on song, in full flow, to me was far more exciting to watch then Ermolenko but wasnt the better rider. I'd have to completely disagree with this as well to be honest. Moran had a great style, but he was primarily a gater, certainly in the 2nd half of his career. Ermolenko was famed for his overtaking.. when he returned from his serious injury in 1990 he couldn't gate to save his life, especially at Wolves and earned all his points from the back. Even in 1993 when he had an 11pt+ average, he missed the gate more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted April 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Moran was a superb racer at least in the 80s, but also certainly a better gater than ermolenko. And apologies all that I haven't updated 88 and 89, since getting back from Rio my average time to finish work for the day is around this (2.30am) so time to complete the list has been very limited. Will get there soon! Edit to add: ermolenko was clearly also a brilliant racer, surpassing Moran. Moran was for me the most stylish rider to grace the racetrack. Edited April 13, 2016 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.