El Predictions 2016

[Shale Searcher]

Imagine todays riders on the deep tracks of yesteryear? For me there was far more trackcraft in the 60,s 70,s 80,s rather than todays mainly gate and go, appears most of todays riders could learn a thing from the past as regards to team riding for example, an art that has all but died out nowadays.

How did all this team riding actually happen in the old days......? According to another thread you could be and was excluded for looking behind you until the very, very early 1970's??

[Gavan]

Yep, and they are still paying for it..

not sure how you mean still paying for it but then again nothing you write makes sense. We are a well run club good crowds good racing. You just keep deluding yourself how wonderful your side is when quite clearly it's the weakest Elite league ever

[Starman2006]

not sure how you mean still paying for it but then again nothing you write makes sense. We are a well run club good crowds good racing. You just keep deluding yourself how wonderful your side is when quite clearly it's the weakest Elite league ever

Really, i think you are very wrong pal, but you believe what you want do deary.

[Agrotron]

Belle Vue are the most historic club hell of a club imo

[BWitcher]

It was a ridiculous comment from Steve as riders on the past would be more than a match for today's riders.

 

They had much more skill on a bike rather than the stock majority of gate & go merchants who struggle to overtake riders.

 

I know which era I would rather watch & today's riders would be behind the 70, 80's in terms of real entertainment.

 

Ah the old "they were much better in the old days".

 

Very simple to disprove.

 

In the old days you could show up at a training school and within a few weeks you're in a team at the highest level!

 

Not a cat in hells chance of that happening now.

 

As for the racing, it wasn't all that much better, if at all. Again easily proved I simply have to pull out my DVD collection of meetings from the 80's and see just how strung out the racing was.

 

However, I don't remember it that way, I remember it being brilliant back then because that's what your mind does, it remembers the great races, forgets the drivel.

 

Back in the old days the same criticisms of speedway were present.. "The one who gates wins". Why would that be if there was so much passing? The answer is it's always been that way.

 

What made speedway better in years gone by were the crowds. Bigger crowds = better atmosphere, which turns an average race into a good one, a good one into a great one, a poor one into an average one.

[kingbee]

How did all this team riding actually happen in the old days......? According to another thread you could be and was excluded for looking behind you until the very, very early 1970's??

I never saw any rider excluded for looking behind that was the late 50s early 60s until the present day Edited March 2, 2016 by kingbee

[Star Lady]

 

In the old days you could show up at a training school and within a few weeks you're in a team at the highest level!

 

Not a cat in hells chance of that happening now.

 

 

 

.

 

Whilst I agree with the rest of your post I think this is a bit of an stretch. Apart from anything else very few riders had super tuned engines back in the day so if a rider had talent it would show up far better on similar powered bikes.

I never saw any rider excluded for looking behind

Me neither and I can go back to 1965. Although I have a vague memory of a rider far more recently being exc for looking behind nut that was not cos he was team riding (I could well be wrong tho).

[LisaColette]

Really, i think you are very wrong pal, but you believe what you want do deary.

He is right, it is the weakest EL.

[BWitcher]

Whilst I agree with the rest of your post I think this is a bit of an stretch. Apart from anything else very few riders had super tuned engines back in the day so if a rider had talent it would show up far better on similar powered bikes.

 

Me neither and I can go back to 1965. Although I have a vague memory of a rider far more recently being exc for looking behind nut that was not cos he was team riding (I could well be wrong tho).

 

It's not a stretch, its been documented in Backtrack magazine on numerous occasions.

[A ORLOV]

He is right, it is the weakest EL.

Well Poole is

[Aces51]

Whilst I agree with the rest of your post I think this is a bit of an stretch. Apart from anything else very few riders had super tuned engines back in the day so if a rider had talent it would show up far better on similar powered bikes.

 

Me neither and I can go back to 1965. Although I have a vague memory of a rider far more recently being exc for looking behind nut that was not cos he was team riding (I could well be wrong tho).

I agree. Having followed the sport since the mid 50's I cannot recall a single instance of a rider being excluded for looking back. You're right about the bikes as well, equipment was much more standardised although top riders were always looking for something to give them an edge. All tracks had a bike as a track spare and riders usually performed as well on that as their own bike.

 

As for riders being in a top team a few weeks after attending a training. I have very rarely seen it. In the 50's Belle Vue ran novice races in the second half and it usually took years rather than weeks or months before even the best novices got into the team. In the late 60's the advent of the second division saw riders progressing from novices to a team place at that level and then the best of them to the first division, mostly after a few years. I'm sure there are others but the only riders I can recall going straight into a top team are Andy Smith, Joe Screen and Robert Lambert. They had all been riding bikes from a young age.

[Gavan]

Really, i think you are very wrong pal, but you believe what you want do deary.

where am I wrong? Ipswich are a well run club, nothing we did that season crippled us. I hated the idea of dropping down but am used to it and I have to admit it is an exciting league. Poole and Belle Vue look ahead of the others by some way. If you think that the Elite league looks good then quite clearly you are not a speedway fan. You want success and are not worried the effect it has on the sport. In the premier league this season there is 6 or 7 teams that could win it. Give me that rather than what the elite looks like serving up. And that season when we walked the league with Rickardsson Gollob Louis and Nicholls was rather boring. Nice to win a trophy but the racing wasnt good as we thrashed teams which isn't good for the sport.

[hyderd]

 

Ah the old "they were much better in the old days".

 

Very simple to disprove.

 

In the old days you could show up at a training school and within a few weeks you're in a team at the highest level!

 

Not a cat in hells chance of that happening now.

 

As for the racing, it wasn't all that much better, if at all. Again easily proved I simply have to pull out my DVD collection of meetings from the 80's and see just how strung out the racing was.

 

However, I don't remember it that way, I remember it being brilliant back then because that's what your mind does, it remembers the great races, forgets the drivel.

 

Back in the old days the same criticisms of speedway were present.. "The one who gates wins". Why would that be if there was so much passing? The answer is it's always been that way.

 

What made speedway better in years gone by were the crowds. Bigger crowds = better atmosphere, which turns an average race into a good one, a good one into a great one, a poor one into an average one.

 

In the late 70's early 80's we at Belle Vue had many a great race due in the main to PC and CM being lousy gaters.

[BWitcher]

 

In the late 70's early 80's we at Belle Vue had many a great race due in the main to PC and CM being lousy gaters.

 

Of course you did, I'm not saying there wasn't great racing, especially at Hyde Road which was one of the best tracks for racing.

 

However, across the country there would have been many, many poor strung out meetings.. just as there is today.

 

I remember the early 1990's providing amazing racing at Wolves when Sam Ermolenko used to miss the gate on a regular basis. However, when I rewatch the matches on DVD (I have them all), yes those races are there but the majority are not great.

[E I Addio]

It's not a stretch, its been documented in Backtrack magazine on numerous occasions.

It happened occasionally but it is a wild exaggeration to say, in your words, "you could just show up at a training school and within weeks you're in a team at the highest level!"

 

There is far more to it than just showing up. Riders who came into teams very quickly were and still are the exceptions rather than the rule. Some got into lower leagues fairly quickly but even those were exceptionally talented riders who went to the top. Most, like Collins or Simmons had already ridden grass track or had previous experience of some kind, and were really the equivalent of modern day riders like Robert Lambert who went straight into the top league but with previous experience. Lewis Bridger is another example of a modern day rider that went into the top league at a very young age.

 

On the other hand Ivan Mauger could not hold down a regular team spot at Wimbledon when he first came over and eventually had to drop down to the Provincial League to hone his skills before riding at the highest level.

 

The difference between today and the past IMO is that a lot of second strings are much better than they used to be and riders who don't perform usually get sacked a lot quicker than years ago, but overall you have to compare like with like, and it's futile to compare past and present.

Edited March 2, 2016 by E I Addio

[Aces51]

Even though Hyde Road was a brilliant race track and that we were spoilt by riders like Craven, Collins and Morton, there were still the inevitable races won from the gate with riders strung out. There will always be a share of those races whatever the track or era.

 

 

These judgements are always subjective. Wolverhampton is now regarded as a track that produces good racing and yet I recall my first visit, I think in the 70's. My first impression was that I had found the cycle speedway by mistake and watching the racing it seemed slow, almost boring and certainly far less exciting than at Hyde Road. Maybe, we have just lowered our expectations and now accept that standard as good or maybe, modern bikes and better track preparation have improved the product at that particular venue.

 

I am certain that the racing at Kirky Lane was nowhere near as good as Hyde Road but still good enough to keep me going every week. Perhaps, the new track will give me a better idea of how standards compare with those earlier times. I think that in those days in addition to bikes of a similar standard, many riders seemed of equal ability and it was those factors that helped the standard of racing. I think one of the pluses of the 2015 EL race format was that it increased the number of races between riders of similar standard and consequently improved the standard of racing.

[BWitcher]

It happened occasionally but it is a wild exaggeration to, in your words, "you could just show up at a training school and within weeks you're in a team at the highest level!"

 

There is far more to it than just showing up. Riders who came into teams very quickly were and still are the exceptions rather than the rule. Some got into lower leagues fairly quickly but even those were exceptionally talented riders who went to the top. Most, like Collins or Simmons had already ridden grass track or had previous experience of some kind, and were really the equivalent of modern day riders like Robert Lambert who went straight into the top league but with previous experience. Lewis Bridger is another example of a modern day rider that went into the top league at a very young age.

 

On the other hand Ivan Mauger could not hold down a regular team spot at Wimbledon when he first came over and eventually had to drop down to the Provincial League to hone his skills before riding at the highest level.

 

The difference between today and the past IMO is that a lot of second strings are much better than they used to be and riders who don't perform usually get sacked a lot quicker than years ago, but overall you have to compare like with like, and it's futile to compare past and present.

 

It's not an exaggeration as you've just admitted it happened .

 

I didn't say it happened all the time, you've assumed that.

 

Lewis Bridger didn't just show up at a training school, he'd been riding for years before it.. there have been a number of 'interviews' in Backtrack magazine with riders who within a month or two of ever getting on a bike were contending or in a team place.

 

The riders who came from the grasstrack scene were of course very different, they were experienced riders and it wouldn't take them long to adapt and be race ready.

 

I agree with everything else you say though.. the equipment is so vastly different now that you simply cannot say whether riders from yesteryear would be good now and vice versa. The top boys from each era I'm sure could adapt (although not a guarantee) but below that, who knows.

[Mad Potter 2]

I never saw any rider excluded for looking behind that was the late 50s early 60s until the present day

 

 

Les Collins Rye House v Stoke 1976. For persistently looking behind according to the Ref.

[B.V 72]

Mate in the bygone era you had no points limit, so the richest club/ s had the manopoly, they had the clout to sign who they wanted. Today you have to work to a points limit no matter what many on here like to say, you still have to stick withing that limit, and with the restrictions you have and rider avaliability its even harder. Year in year out, Matt puts together a side that at the bare minimum gets to the final. What is it, 6 on the trotski of four of those have been winners. Not bad that.. B WITCHER would love to be printing that.. Then he woke up...

Sorry you are wrong there Starman.Teams in the 70s could not build a side as strong as they liked there was rider control that so called evened the teams out.Any successful team was told they had to release a top rider who was then placed with a weaker team from the year before to strengthen said team up and they then had to replace that rider with a much lesser rider.

Belle vue as an example over their three year league winning run had to release 4 heat leaders over this time Tommy Roper,Dave Hemus,Sandor Levai and Ivan Mauger.All 4 of these riders were replaced by Belle vue home produced riders who had previously rode in the then 2nd division.Mauger was the final straw with his departure our run was over.

The best team of our three year run in my opinion was the 1972 team of which had 5 home produced team members that never cost the club a penny in transfer fees.

So if Poole had the same rules to work with there is a chance that over your 3 year run you were told you had to lose Holder one year and Jankowski the next and replace them with a premier league level rider would you have done as well.

Do you still think it was easier back then.

Edited March 2, 2016 by B.V 72

[Starman2006]

Sorry you are wrong there Starman.Teams in the 70s could not build a side as strong as they liked there was rider control that so called evened the teams out.Any successful team was told they had to release a top rider who was then placed with a weaker team from the year before to strengthen said team up and they then had to replace that rider with a much lesser rider.

But we are not talking about the 70's, we are talking about the 50's and 60's..