Bagpuss Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 They aren't gonna risk getting the sack from Poland for us and we have to put up with it and help out our teams who have probs, we need them more than Poland no doubt! Then they shouldn't be signing contracts over here if they can't / won't fulfill their British fixtures. We wouldn't dream of trying to make Polish riders ride over here on Sundays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Then they shouldn't be signing contracts over here if they can't / won't fulfill their British fixtures. We wouldn't dream of trying to make Polish riders ride over here on Sundays. We know where we stand next season, bit difficult this. I think this is simply the Polish clubs/media flexing their muscles (and getting in first!) on hearing that the BSPA might be moving to Friday as its nominated EL single race day!! If that is the thinking, they must hope that Poland remains number one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 We know where we stand next season, bit difficult this. Yes, but riders who have signed British contracts have committed to its terms and conditions, and that means being available for fixtures. Whether Poland pays more or not, if they decide to race fixtures on Friday evenings at this late stage then they should only be able to use riders who are free and available, ie not committed to riding elsewhere. It would have been different had they announced this change last year and riders who signed up for Polish sides known the score when they signed British contracts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Yes, but riders who have signed British contracts have committed to its terms and conditions, and that means being available for fixtures. Whether Poland pays more or not, if they decide to race fixtures on Friday evenings at this late stage then they should only be able to use riders who are free and available, ie not committed to riding elsewhere. It would have been different had they announced this change last year and riders who signed up for Polish sides known the score when they signed British contracts. Understand what you're saying but if I was a rider it would be 2 fingers to the British EL with no 2nd thought. Money pays the bills, don't p!ss off the Poles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reviresco Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 The Polish Ekstraliga fixtures were issued on 7th January and at that time they included 7 x Friday and 2 x Saturday matches. The EL/PL fixtures were issued on 21st January when it would have been known already about the non-Sunday Polish fixtures. How has this caused this unnamed rider who was originally due to miss 2 x British fixtures to now be missing 7? Are all these clashes due to Polish league fixtures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Depends when they did the deal in GB with said rider ...... if I was the BSPA I would swallow my pride, rearrange my fixtures where possible and allow this team a guest where not ....... Poland rules atm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted January 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 You mean BEL getting a taste of it's own medicine? Why should BEL have exclusive right to "every" day of week? Why should BEL but not Poland and/or Denmark have the right to Fridays? As it currently is the BEL is just as a big "issue" to the others leagues as they are to BEL since BEL have a meeting almost every day of the week. Try to find an available night for a postponed Elitserien meeting and you'll see that it's "impossible" to find a race night were both teams have all riders available since they are occupied with racing in BEL and Denmark which means that teams usually are somewhat depleted when the postponed meetings are re-run. So this is just another case of British speedway expecting every league or series to adjust to/revolve around them. EVERYONE has to swim in the same waters and over the passage of time it was always accepted by both Poland and Sweden that in Britain the vast majority of the teams only rented the stadiums in which they raced and therefore had restricted access. It wasn't greed that saw British teams gobble up virtually every night of the week but necessity. By comparison Swedish clubs could by and large have a single race-night (Tuesday) as did Poland (Sunday) and the BEL accepted that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 You mean BEL getting a taste of it's own medicine? Why should BEL have exclusive right to "every" day of week? Why should BEL but not Poland and/or Denmark have the right to Fridays? As it currently is the BEL is just as a big "issue" to the others leagues as they are to BEL since BEL have a meeting almost every day of the week. Try to find an available night for a postponed Elitserien meeting and you'll see that it's "impossible" to find a race night were both teams have all riders available since they are occupied with racing in BEL and Denmark which means that teams usually are somewhat depleted when the postponed meetings are re-run. So this is just another case of British speedway expecting every league or series to adjust to/revolve around them. I've only been involved a decade, but the fact still is, that UK has a special role in the world of speedway. They are the one's that enable Aussies and yanks and other to come to Europe by giving them 30-40 matches a year and upkeep. As example's Darky and Holder, dont think they moved to Motala or Torun from down under and started from there? I'm not far off the mark when I say that they came to UK, were good enough and then the dorrs in Sweden and Poland opened up. Also during this decade, tuesdays have been Sweden and sundays Poland. Denmark with their STRONG work with youth is now a growing force and will shake things in the next few years. Less than a decade ago they were in a situation where there was no Superleague coming for the following season! Now it's a working system with most top riders and good crowds. Polands plan to take more racenights might just as well backfire badly this coming season. I think it's a huge risk that they are taking. Been hearing this from outside of speedway as well, that they are crazy for sports and it doesnt have to be speedway... Other side of the coin is, that in all leagues there are shaky/dodgy teams that dont pay and are in danger of folding mid season, any season. I'm a bit conservative in some things, but there are things you should be very careful with messing around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 I just see it as yet another change that will be used as an excuse,just like the whole threat of the Russian league was blown out of proportion and used as an exuse as to why certain clubs couldn't sign riders......think it was Berwick that came out with that one even though there was only maybe 2 foreign juniors other than Russians(who don't race in the PL anyway)there.The UK can't expect a monopoly on race days.Those times passed decades ago.The UK hasn't moved with the times and can't expect other countries to restrict their race nights,just because the UK has lumbered itself with a major problem# As for youngsters coming over to Europe,even that is slowly changing.Wasn't there an American in the Swedish league?And at least two young Australians,Camo Heeps and Brady Kurtz have used Denmark as their stepping stone into Europe.....also one or two Argentinian as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMcCaffery Posted January 31, 2016 Report Share Posted January 31, 2016 Back in the seventies when Britain was running two leagues with nearly forty tracks, the upper league tracking almost every top rider in the world, and a Wembley World Final every three years that there were jealous eyes outside, wanting to see it fall, so they could instead have the benefits. Well we saw the old World Championship 'nibbled away' at with rounds and even the final being allocated to totally unsuitable venues as these forces started to use their political clout. They ate away at the system until they'd brought it down to their own level - amateur events on Sunday afternoons in front of relatively small crowds. The rot set in at Norden and took hold. Without being able to give regular bookings to Wembley we lost it. Eventually the World Final was small enough for there to be a need for several of them a season. The Grands Prix would always damage British speedway with its heavy reliance on Friday and Saturday nights. Adding more and more rounds and now the emergence of One Sport's events have top level speedway in Britain virtually at death's door. Yes the BSPA made serious mistakes. Yes the BSPA were arrogant. Well, you've got your revenge. You've all got your pieces of a shrunken pie. You have the top riders and control. Well, until the money runs out. Cracks are showing in both Poland and Sweden. Riders will one day envy their predecessors who could get almost daily fixtures in Britain. All the talk has been about expanding the sport, but in reality who has benefitted from all of this bar Poland? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 All the talk has been about expanding the sport, but in reality who has benefitted from all of this bar Poland? To be honest, I don't really have a problem with what the Polish leagues do, even if they are now killing their own golden goose by living well beyond their means. They do at least run tracks, provide proper employment for professional riders, and have some commitment to developing new riders. The real insidious developments are all these private promotions cropping up that are running 'prestige' events - using the riders developed by others, not having to pay a living wage, taking prime dates for themselves, and all the while skimming off television and sponsorship money. And what's worse, this is all endorsed by the sport's governing bodies who are seemingly happy with this state of affairs provided they get their guaranteed euros. The reality is there are three maybe four truly professional leagues in the world (plus maybe Russia if you want to deal with them) that have something of a symbiotic relationship, and should be working together for their mutual benefit and survival. Yes, I think it would be accepted that Poland followed by Sweden would be top of the pecking order, but as f-s-p points out, Britain also provides valuable employment and experience to riders as well. It's absolutely ridiculous that the professional speedway leagues allowed, and continue to allow the limited revenues coming into the speedway to disappear off into the pockets of private promoters without any obligation to support the rest of the sport. It might even be justifiable if their investment really was expanding the sport, but the reality is that it's actually contracting - raced regularly in fewer countries than it ever was, and dying a slow death in most of its former strongholds. Well we saw the old World Championship 'nibbled away' at with rounds and even the final being allocated to totally unsuitable venues as these forces started to use their political clout. They ate away at the system until they'd brought it down to their own level - amateur events on Sunday afternoons in front of relatively small crowds. The rot set in at Norden and took hold. Without being able to give regular bookings to Wembley we lost it. I think you'd also have to attribute it to a new breed of money men that started to inhabit international sporting bodies - realising there was money in television rights and associated sponsorship, but that third parties were actually willing to pay to do all the work and assume the risks. It didn't matter to them whether the sports had an established structure, and of course because the new money benefitted a handful of elite performers, there's the illusion that it's good for the whole sport. It wasn't greed that saw British teams gobble up virtually every night of the week but necessity. The density of fixtures also required it. You can't stage weekly home meetings if every track rides on the same night, and Britain used to offer riders at least two if not more earning opportunities per week. By comparison Swedish clubs could by and large have a single race-night (Tuesday) as did Poland (Sunday) and the BEL accepted that. The Swedish League (as least in its open era) relied on its professional stars being able to supplement their earnings elsewhere, hence the original one night per week model. I heard that Tuesdays were originally selected because there were either none, or few BL teams riding that day. Sundays were always no issue with Britain as there had long been a tradition for BL riders to go off and ride in Continental meetings that day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocha Posted February 1, 2016 Report Share Posted February 1, 2016 2016 Polish Extraleague fixture list: http://www.speedwayexplorer.com/2016-speedway-ekstraliga-fixtures-calendar/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolskiZuzel Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 TRACKS with GP riders know from November when their riders will be missing on Fridays and can plan accordingly... the change in race-night for Polish teams is only just starting to take affect and, of course, won't be on GP weekends. GP doesn't have its own riders... leagues do... and they pay them to ride in them. So why "tracks" should plan their fixtures to suit BSI? ... over the passage of time it was always accepted .... Mr Rising... you're living in the past...enough said ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 GP doesn't have its own riders... leagues do... and they pay them to ride in them. So why "tracks" should plan their fixtures to suit BSI? Mr Rising... you're living in the past...enough said ! A lack of co-operation between the various authorities won't help any of them in the long run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f-s-p Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) GP doesn't have its own riders... leagues do... and they pay them to ride in them. So why "tracks" should plan their fixtures to suit BSI? Mr Rising... you're living in the past...enough said ! Having written himself in to the series before the series starts, one becomes a GP rider. If you decline to ride in a gp and try to ride somewhere else, the FIM will see to it that you wont. For some time and and with a nice fine. EDIT: the fine was not in the gp rulebook, but if I had written myself in and said I'll ride in some local meet in Finland instead of the GP, the FIM would revoke my start permit for the friday before to the following tuesday + kick my ärse out of the SGP. rubbishrollsdownhill... Fim, fim europe, fmn's... Edited February 2, 2016 by f-s-p 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUDGIE Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Is it just me? Everyone seems to accept that it is OK to have more than one loyalty. Riders should ride for one team. (There may be wriggle room for qualified riders riding at 2 levels in one country) All this discussion would then be pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Is it just me? Everyone seems to accept that it is OK to have more than one loyalty. Riders should ride for one team. (There may be wriggle room for qualified riders riding at 2 levels in one country) The reality is that speedway physically allows riders to ride for more than one team, and the sport has evolved that way it's accepted that riders make a living that way. I suppose it's no different to a self-employed contractor working for several clients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barncooseboy Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 with the possible demise of Coventry and Lakeside due to site redevelo[pment in 2017 apart from BV and KL we are left with EL clubs who rent their stadium space from Stadium owners who schedule their own events on nights they believe will bring them the greatest profit, speedway has to work around these events. I believe that effectively puts a stop to a particular day being used for EL Fixtures, it could also sound the death knell for certain PL clubs who can only race on a restricted pallette of race night due to local council planning restrictions, if implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUDGIE Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 The reality is that speedway physically allows riders to ride for more than one team, and the sport has evolved that way it's accepted that riders make a living that way. I suppose it's no different to a self-employed contractor working for several clients. The sad part is that I cant ever seeing me coming back to watch a load of travelling all stars ride for one club one day and another the next day. May as well watch the Harlem Globetrotters ...I do feel sad about this but the sport has no integrity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Sweet Georgia Brown!!!! Theres nothing wrong with watching the Harlem Globetrotters - great entertainment in packed out venues!! However, a 'one-off' event - a bit like the GPs - is no comparison for weekly fixtures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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