Barry Hearn....

[mikebv]

It is interesting all the ideas and solutions for speedways crowd issues on this website and others, many very valid..

 

However, maybe this is the ultimate determining factor as to why crowds are so low?

 

I have been watching Speedway Portal tonight and one meeting was a Poole v Stoke match from 1987

 

Entrance fee to the stadium? £2.70..

 

Put this into an inflation tracker and £2.70 then is equivalent to £5.70 in 2015..

 

Not the circa £17.00 that many fans paid last year..

 

This equats to a 529% increase against a 28 year inflation rate of 111%...

 

Which means speedway admission has risen around 418% more than the 'cost of living'...

 

Basically we have had this as the business plan...

 

Year on year inflation busting price increases to cover spiralling out of control costs with the increase paid by an ever dwindling customer base, which in turn means an inflation busting price increase the year later to make up the shortfall, which in turn drives down the ever dwindling customer base...

 

Think it needs far more than Barry Hearn to 'rescue' a sport that for so long has operated in such an unbelievable way....

Edited January 27, 2016 by mikebv

[Shale Searcher]

It is interesting all the ideas and solutions for speedways crowd issues on this website and others, many very valid however..

 

I have been watching Speedway Portal tonight and one meeting was a Poole v Stoke match from 1987

 

Entrance fee to the stadium? £2.70..

 

Put this into an inflation tracker and £2.70 then is equivalent to £5.70 in 2015..

 

Not the circa £17.00 that many fans paid last year..

 

This equats to a 529% increase against a 28 year inflation rate of 111%...

 

Which means speedway admission has risen around 418% more than the 'cost of living'...

 

Basically we have had this as the business plan...

 

Year on year inflation busting price increases to cover spiralling out of control costs with the increase paid by an ever dwindling customer base, which in turn means an inflation busting price increase the year later to make up the shortfall, which in turn drives down the ever dwindling customer base...

 

Think it needs far more than Barry Hearn to 'rescue' a sport that for so long has operated in such an unbelievable way....

Accompanied by the reduction in quality of riders on show to also help keep the sport going, it's like being on a life support machine, admission fees go up, the quality of the riders on display drops, just to be able to open the turnstiles....

 

Speedway in the UK, even at the highest level cannot support riders on a full-time, one team, at a time basis.

 

Crowds not big enough to pay riders wages at a level that would allow them to ride for just one team.. This over the years has eroded rider loyalty (can't afford to just ride for one team) I don't think riders are overpaid for the job they do, but, in the UK, the crowds are not big enough to pay what the job is worth.

[FAST GATER]

Accompanied by the reduction in quality of riders on show to also help keep the sport going, it's like being on a life support machine, admission fees go up, the quality of the riders on display drops, just to be able to open the turnstiles....

 

Speedway in the UK, even at the highest level cannot support riders on a full-time, one team, at a time basis.

 

Crowds not big enough to pay riders wages at a level that would allow them to ride for just one team.. This over the years has eroded rider loyalty (can't afford to just ride for one team) I don't think riders are overpaid for the job they do, but, in the UK, the crowds are not big enough to pay what the job is worth.

Think your right about it being a full time job most riders that I knew back in the 70's in the old NL all had jobs except for the likes of the Owen Bros , John Jackson and alike plus that was supposed to be the the golden era !

YES they do, especially around Cardiff time, but I have said many times on here that the National press is a very different animal now than it was when I worked in Fleet Street. Ironically, newspapers devote far more space to sport than they did 30 years ago but there is little interest in motorsport (other than F1) in general whether it be two or four wheels. Banging their heads against the proverbial brick wall.

 

It is vastly different in Poland, of course, and the Danish nationals still carry speedway in a significant way but don't think there is an awful lot in Sweden other than for the Stockholm GP.

 

Speedway doesn't sell newspapers... and even if you look at the Daily Mail online (the most viewed online newspaper in the world I believe) it is over 90 per cent football. Even cricket, golf and rugby are barely mentioned on a daily basis and tennis only when a Grand slam is on and Murray is involved.

Think you right Phil this country is obsessed with football we can expect no help from the media in that respect sadly

Edited January 27, 2016 by FAST GATER

[mikebv]

Having read all these comments, I believe most are missing the point. The Main problem that exist with our sport is that we do not cultivate new supporters. The majority of the present fan base are those who have followed the sport for years.

 

The No1 priority for Barry Hearn, or anybody else for that matter, is to reach out to those people who have never heard or even thought about the sport.. Directing your sources to draw in the accomplished fans is one thing but the sport needs so much more........

 

There are people living in our village, only 10 miles away from Lynn, that don't know what a speedway track looks like......... But everyone knows what a football pitch is like, and where the nearest hospital is ??????

You make a fair point however,..

 

Telling a couple of newbies that they will part with around £40 of their joint disposable income to attend is I would suggest the biggest obstacle to overcome..

 

There are already thousands of 'ex fans' who know perfectly well where the sport is run as they used to go, yet they decide not to attend anymore...

 

Just getting the vast majority of them back would be a huge step forwards

 

That the sport cannot do this tells us pretty much where it sits...

 

As has been proved. Put on a '°freebie' and the place is packed.

 

With the vast majority in attendance I would say, being people who know the sport having attended previously, maybe even used to regularly, yet wont pay circa £18 to attend it as they cant justify that kind of outlay anymore...

Edited January 27, 2016 by mikebv

[Humphrey Appleby]

YES they do, especially around Cardiff time, but I have said many times on here that the National press is a very different animal now than it was when I worked in Fleet Street.=

Newspapers are mostly dying a slow death anyway, and are not medium for attracting a new younger audience.

[SteveLyric2]

The online versions aren't 'dying a death' at all!!!

It is interesting all the ideas and solutions for speedways crowd issues on this website and others, many very valid..

However, maybe this is the ultimate determining factor as to why crowds are so low?

I have been watching Speedway Portal tonight and one meeting was a Poole v Stoke match from 1987

Entrance fee to the stadium? £2.70..

Put this into an inflation tracker and £2.70 then is equivalent to £5.70 in 2015..

Not the circa £17.00 that many fans paid last year..

This equats to a 529% increase against a 28 year inflation rate of 111%...

Which means speedway admission has risen around 418% more than the 'cost of living'...

Basically we have had this as the business plan...

Year on year inflation busting price increases to cover spiralling out of control costs with the increase paid by an ever dwindling customer base, which in turn means an inflation busting price increase the year later to make up the shortfall, which in turn drives down the ever dwindling customer base...

Think it needs far more than Barry Hearn to 'rescue' a sport that for so long has operated in such an unbelievable way....

Whilst not disagreeing with the overall point your post is trying to make, I think your example has a few inconsistencies.

 

For example In 1987 Poole were in the National League (2nd division) so a like for like comparison with a 2015 club would make a better argument.

 

Also the VAT issue has to be taken account of.

 

The inflation tracker that I use also puts the figures at £2.70 in 1987 = £7.08 in 2015.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Skidder1

[E I Addio]

It is interesting all the ideas and solutions for speedways crowd issues on this website and others, many very valid..

However, maybe this is the ultimate determining factor as to why crowds are so low?

I have been watching Speedway Portal tonight and one meeting was a Poole v Stoke match from 1987

Entrance fee to the stadium? £2.70..

Put this into an inflation tracker and £2.70 then is equivalent to £5.70 in 2015..

Not the circa £17.00 that many fans paid last year..

This equats to a 529% increase against a 28 year inflation rate of 111%...

Which means speedway admission has risen around 418% more than the 'cost of living'...

Basically we have had this as the business plan...

Year on year inflation busting price increases to cover spiralling out of control costs with the increase paid by an ever dwindling customer base, which in turn means an inflation busting price increase the year later to make up the shortfall, which in turn drives down the ever dwindling customer base...

Think it needs far more than Barry Hearn to 'rescue' a sport that for so long has operated in such an unbelievable way....[/quote

 

That's a bit of a disingenuous argument. Few things have risen in exactly in line with inflation. Some things are far cheaper in relative terms others such as train fares have risen much faster than inflation and will continue to do so. The averag wage in 1985 was under £6000 per year, now it is around £28000 per year but, as those on low incomes will tell you there is no such thing as average.

 

As Disraeli said there are lies, there are damned lies and there are statistics. We can play with figures all day but the fact remains that the majority of stadium based sports charge roughly in the bracket of £15-20 . Tens of thousands of people pay twice that amount week in week out to watch soccer matches, and most are not wealthy people. Go to a soccer match where the admission is £18 or less and it will not be a high standard. Plenty of stock car tracks charge admission roughly comparable to Speedwáy. So cost alone is not an issue .

To expect any sort of Speedwáy meeting, other than a glorified practice session by amateurs, for £5.70 is cloud cuckoo land.

 

Get a balance between teams, good racing, no cheating, and a closely fought league and people will find the £18.

[Humphrey Appleby]

As Disraeli said there are lies, there are damned lies and there are statistics. We can play with figures all day but the fact remains that the majority of stadium based sports charge roughly in the bracket of £15-20.

Yes, but many speedway fans also used to go to football as well, and there's a significant overlap in the seasons. Football was quite a cheap sport until the 1990s, and speedway prices tended to be lower still from memory. It probably shouldn't be discounted that as football prices have skyrocketed, that the casual fan could only pick one sport to follow.

 

I remember paying GBP 3.50 in 1988 to watch top-flight speedway, which the inflation calculator puts somewhere between GBP 7.38 and GBP 12.26 today. I recall that GBP 3.50 was about my hourly wage at the time, whilst the average hourly wage today is somewhere around 14 quid, so even discounting the fact that I'd have been earning below the average wage as a part-time student employee, it suggests speedway admission has significantly increased beyond the rate of inflation.

 

I agree that a speedway admission to average earnings ratio doesn't entirely tell the whole story, because many commodities are now cheaper in real terms so the average person has more disposal income after they their living expenses are taken into account. Equally though, you have to factor in things like the fuel to get to meetings which likely has increased beyond inflation.

 

The fact of the matter was that even as a student, I could afford to watch both football and speedway on a regular basis. I'd doubt that would be possible today.

[Nobblytriers]

What got us hooked on speedway? What did we get from speedway that we didn't get from football or cricket or Rugby???

 

And what did it cost us to go to speedway when we first went? How did the costs stack up against other sports then?

Why don't we get newbies now, especially with all the TV exposure now, compared to when we started going down/up the speedway?

 

Generally, 4 blokes on 4 bikes, with no brakes for 4 laps of an oval of shale?

 

Why has speedway lost its way?

 

I got hooked on the noise (no silencers) and the smell (nothing like it) and both are practically gone. Got talking to a mate of mine and turns out he used to go to Blackbird Road, Leicester in his youth and I suggested we go to BP when the season starts. He said he used to love it and could remember the smell. I said you don't get that much of it these days and his face dropped. Most people who used to go to meetings in the past say that they always remember the smell. It was part of the experience.

Elsewhere in this thread, someone mentioned that follow the leader races were all too common. (Not just BP then?). If that's the case, maybe that's the most important thing that everyone concerned with running the sport should be looking at solving ... if it's something that can be solved?

 

Newbies? Lots more competition for the pound in your pocket so you have to make it something special, better than the other stuff on offer. Once you've got them through the gate, give them a good time and value for money. Someone once told me that to beat the competition you've got to be cheaper, better or both. Personally I think a handfull of free or very cheap meetings would do the sport a world of good. A bit like a try before you buy. Maybe paying £20 to £30 for a night out not knowing what you're going to get is a bit too high a price to pay for most people?

 

PS My mate still said he'll go to BP this season, even without the smell. I hope the track alterations make a difference and he get's hooked again.

[BluPanther]

Yes, but many speedway fans also used to go to football as well, and there's a significant overlap in the seasons. Football was quite a cheap sport until the 1990s, and speedway prices tended to be lower still from memory. It probably shouldn't be discounted that as football prices have skyrocketed, that the casual fan could only pick one sport to follow.

 

I remember paying GBP 3.50 in 1988 to watch top-flight speedway, which the inflation calculator puts somewhere between GBP 7.38 and GBP 12.26 today. I recall that GBP 3.50 was about my hourly wage at the time, whilst the average hourly wage today is somewhere around 14 quid, so even discounting the fact that I'd have been earning below the average wage as a part-time student employee, it suggests speedway admission has significantly increased beyond the rate of inflation.

 

I agree that a speedway admission to average earnings ratio doesn't entirely tell the whole story, because many commodities are now cheaper in real terms so the average person has more disposal income after they their living expenses are taken into account. Equally though, you have to factor in things like the fuel to get to meetings which likely has increased beyond inflation.

 

The fact of the matter was that even as a student, I could afford to watch both football and speedway on a regular basis. I'd doubt that would be possible today.

Very true, and youngsters never had large monthly phone contract payments in those days. Speedway cannot compete against owning the new iphone these days unfortunately...

[g13webb]

What got us hooked on speedway? What did we get from speedway that we didn't get from football or cricket or Rugby???

 

And what did it cost us to go to speedway when we first went? How did the costs stack up against other sports then?

Why don't we get newbies now, especially with all the TV exposure now, compared to when we started going down/up the speedway?

 

Generally, 4 blokes on 4 bikes, with no brakes for 4 laps of an oval of shale?

 

Why has speedway lost its way?

 

There are many reasons, but primarily, the sport has lost its appeal because of the affordability to the masses that use to support it. All this new technology comes at a price, a cost that prices it out of a lot of peoples pockets. Like other sports speedway benefitted from low admission price and crowd levels were much higher than today. Top riders use to by a new bike each year knowing it would last the season. Howard Cole once said to me, New chain, Hose it down and fill it up and we're away. Today it is much different. Not only are the cost of the bikes ridiculously high, but the cost of tuning them goes through the roof. It is my belief the technology has priced itself out of the sport..

 

The same can be said of Scrambling ( Motocross). I remember years ago the venues were packed now the only people there are organiser, friends and riders.

Such a shame the these sports have descended in this way. Give me the good ole days......everytime.......

[FAST GATER]

There are many reasons, but primarily, the sport has lost its appeal because of the affordability to the masses that use to support it. All this new technology comes at a price, a cost that prices it out of a lot of peoples pockets. Like other sports speedway benefitted from low admission price and crowd levels were much higher than today. Top riders use to by a new bike each year knowing it would last the season. Howard Cole once said to me, New chain, Hose it down and fill it up and we're away. Today it is much different. Not only are the cost of the bikes ridiculously high, but the cost of tuning them goes through the roof. It is my belief the technology has priced itself out of the sport..

 

The same can be said of Scrambling ( Motocross). I remember years ago the venues were packed now the only people there are organiser, friends and riders.

Such a shame the these sports have descended in this way. Give me the good ole days......everytime.......

Some good points I think the fact of the matter is that the cost to riders in league speedway needs to reflect the income of the sport at turnstile , in a perfect world let the GP boys spend (waste ) theirs or sponsors money on the latest "must have's " and excessive tuning costs .In league s/way the running costs need to be cut accordingly ,as I remember in the past bikes used one season in the EL would turn up in the PL the next season and this seemed to work quite well .I remember riders wearing s/hand leathers or having odd mudguards ( B/Briggs being a prime example ) now even in the NL they look like GP bikes and I know that there is a standard to be kept but Briggs said it was more important to have a good motor than fancy guards etc.

Edited January 28, 2016 by FAST GATER

[Humphrey Appleby]

I know that there is a standard to be kept but Briggs said it was more important to have a good motor than fancy guards etc.

And yet Briggo imposed the dirt deflector on the sport...

[E I Addio]

 

The same can be said of Scrambling ( Motocross). I remember years ago the venues were packed now the only people there are organiser, friends and riders.

Such a shame the these sports have descended in this way. Give me the good ole days......everytime.......

Very true. People come on this forum with their quick fix solutions for Speedwáy but they conveniently ignore the fact that the world has changed. People don't support motor sport in general in the way that they used to, and broadly speaking don't support stadium based entertainment in the way that they used to on a regular basis.

 

My take on it is twofold. Firstly , we now live in an electronic world where people don't have the same interest in mechanical things. Secondly people are increasingly non-sport minded. I keep hearing about increasing obesity among young children because they are being brought up on computer games instead of doing sports, and this is IMO translating into a nation consisting of a big percentage of couch potatoes.

 

This is not to say there is not a lot that Speedwáy can do. Of course there is but it is one of many sports, like moto-cross , and others where the potential crowd base has diminished and we will never go back to the days of huge crowds whatever is done. If every club could put a 100 on its average attendance it would be a realistic target as a first step and would at least move away from the danger of bankruptcy.

[g13webb]

In my life many things have changed. In years gone by it was so easy to get involved at a cost one could afford. Taking Motocross as an example, in 1965 there were 245 registered riders in East Anglia alone, another 280 in the East Midland, participants only needed a cheap bike, helmet and boots and they were able to compete. A small outlay to have an enjoyable time. This is a far cry to what it is like today. Tracks were plentiful and available dates were a bigger issue where scrambling was a weekly event. There were 38 registered tracks in East Anglia alone, over 350 nationwide. In 2014 there were 3 in EA and only 42 in the country. All the little clubs have ceased to exist leaving the bigger ones struggling to survive. Where once every Tom, Dick or Harry could choice to part-take because the cost was within their reach, now this is limited to the wealthy and the highly talented to keep the influx going....

 

Speedway is very similar, where once the sport was unindated with a endless supply of new riders hoping to get on the ladder. Now the cost of equipment frightened many prospective newcomers away. The support that follows local talent is a mere token to what it once was.... yet another reason why the numbers are diminishing...

[E I Addio]

In my life many things have changed. In years gone by it was so easy to get involved at a cost one could afford. Taking Motocross as an example, in 1965 there were 245 registered riders in East Anglia alone, another 280 in the East Midland, participants only needed a cheap bike, helmet and boots and they were able to compete. A small outlay to have an enjoyable time. This is a far cry to what it is like today. Tracks were plentiful and available dates were a bigger issue where scrambling was a weekly event. There were 38 registered tracks in East Anglia alone, over 350 nationwide. In 2014 there were 3 in EA and only 42 in the country. All the little clubs have ceased to exist leaving the bigger ones struggling to survive. Where once every Tom, Dick or Harry could choice to part-take because the cost was within their reach, now this is limited to the wealthy and the highly talented to keep the influx going....

 

Speedway is very similar, where once the sport was unindated with a endless supply of new riders hoping to get on the ladder. Now the cost of equipment frightened many prospective newcomers away. The support that follows local talent is a mere token to what it once was.... yet another reason why the numbers are diminishing...

I knew MX had diminished but I didn't know it had gone that far down. I am quite shocked. Grass track is much the same. At one time there was something on in Kent almost every weekend in the season, but now they are very hard to come by. It certainly puts speedways problems into perspective.

 

You are right about the cost of equipment. On Malcolm Simmons DVD he says that when he first went to ride for Hackney he was using the second hand engine from his grass track bike. That would be completely impossible for anyone starting out today. While still an apprentice at Chatham Dockyard he was earning 10 times more grass tracking at weekends than he earnt in his week day job. That is the sort of money clubs could pay with crowds the sport pulled in those days. As we know, those humble beginnings eventually produced a world class rider so how many other potential Simmos are being ruled out by cost today?

[g13webb]

Around 1973 / 74 I was in the pits. Lynn had just scrapped a win against Newport, Michael Lee had finished is half time exhibition, and a really colourful conversation was going on between Neil Street and Andy Lee. Both, engine whiz kids, were exploying the capabilities of Street's first 4 valve engine. Andy's eyes gleamed as he examined the make shift creation that was taped together. It wasn't a surprise that Phil Crump had score a maximum, but Neil himself had scored double figures was a real eye opener. He was getting on in years then........

 

While Andy was in dreamland, Terry Betts sat in the corner talking to Big Al ( Alan Littlechild) . Bettsy said the speed from bike was ridiculous. If it not banned straight away, it could kill the sport. Big Al replied, every rider would have to have one, meaning they would want more money, and Bettsy said There is not enough money in the sport to start messing about like that.......

 

If only they had listened to him..........

[barncooseboy]

From what i hear in 2017 it will need all the PL promoters to grow a pair and finally tell the EL promotions that there are more of us than you, you do NOT tell us how to run our tracks . Maybe its time to go back to the times when both leagues ran their own business without refererence to the other

A very average EL heat leader with a diminishingh average i hear is asking for a £2000 guarantee per meeting.

[FAST GATER]

Around 1973 / 74 I was in the pits. Lynn had just scrapped a win against Newport, Michael Lee had finished is half time exhibition, and a really colourful conversation was going on between Neil Street and Andy Lee. Both, engine whiz kids, were exploying the capabilities of Street's first 4 valve engine. Andy's eyes gleamed as he examined the make shift creation that was taped together. It wasn't a surprise that Phil Crump had score a maximum, but Neil himself had scored double figures was a real eye opener. He was getting on in years then........

 

While Andy was in dreamland, Terry Betts sat in the corner talking to Big Al ( Alan Littlechild) . Bettsy said the speed from bike was ridiculous. If it not banned straight away, it could kill the sport. Big Al replied, every rider would have to have one, meaning they would want more money, and Bettsy said There is not enough money in the sport to start messing about like that.......

 

If only they had listened to him..........

The sport has never been the same again IMO and never will be sadly .

From what i hear in 2017 it will need all the PL promoters to grow a pair and finally tell the EL promotions that there are more of us than you, you do NOT tell us how to run our tracks . Maybe its time to go back to the times when both leagues ran their own business without refererence to the other

A very average EL heat leader with a diminishingh average i hear is asking for a £2000 guarantee per meeting.

Could not agree more EL is making their problems the PL's IMO let them sort their own problems out, the future of the sport maybe to run the leagues totally separate where possible I have always thought that .

Edited January 29, 2016 by FAST GATER

[g13webb]

From what i hear in 2017 it will need all the PL promoters to grow a pair and finally tell the EL promotions that there are more of us than you, you do NOT tell us how to run our tracks . Maybe its time to go back to the times when both leagues ran their own business without refererence to the other

A very average EL heat leader with a diminishingh average i hear is asking for a £2000 guarantee per meeting.

 

And here lies the reason why our sport is in the depression it is. I appreciate the EL promoters are fools unto themselves but for someone to post suggestions that the PL should run separately highlights the massive problem this sport has. Sod you jack attitude gets you nowhere. The sport is like a big boat, and everyone must pull their weight, unless they all pull together then the boat will sink.

 

Whether you like it or not the EL is the show piece, and the PL is equal to a 2nd division. NL is the 3rd. The sport should be run as one and every team wanting to progress to that top tier. any other way is deemed to failure......... that' be to the Sport, The Divisions and the Fans......

Edited January 29, 2016 by GRW123