The 2016 Speedway Best Pairs Cup

[DutchGrasstrack]

My god, some of you lot realy have nothing better to do then moan around all day....

 

I think this can be a fun competition.

[Humphrey Appleby]

My god, some of you lot realy have nothing better to do then moan around all day....

It's what speedway fans do...

 

I think this can be a fun competition.

The issue was it masquerading as something it wasn't. If OneSport just ran it as the invitational international best pairs or something then no-one would grumble.

[Ghostwalker]

Who's going to be interested in watching or sponsoring a mickey mouse event with made-up teams? It would be better if it took the form of domestic teams racing in some sort of international cup.

 

Formula 1 and MotoGP seems to do pretty well with their made up teams.

The issue was it masquerading as something it wasn't. If OneSport just ran it as the invitational international best pairs or something then no-one would grumble.

 

So who cares except BSI who only seems to whine for the sake of it rather then doing something themselves.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Ghostwalker

[Humphrey Appleby]

Formula 1 and MotoGP seems to do pretty well with their made up teams.

Speedway isn't F1 and never has been, but F1 actually has engineering teams that were either acquired or sponsored. Virtually all current F1 teams have a long lineage in the sport.

 

So who cares except BSI who only seems to whine for the sake of it rather then doing something themselves.

Well I rarely defend BSI, but I can quite understand why they got miffed after buying the rights to the SGP and SWC for 21 years, only to have a renegade branch of the FIM sell the rights to another GP series and team event that potentially competes for television and sponsorship.

[PolskiZuzel]

The issue was it masquerading as something it wasn't. If OneSport just ran it as the invitational international best pairs or something then no-one would grumble.

 

OneSpoprt ideed ran it as the invitational international best pairs events... with intention to turn it into fully fledged FIM World Pairs Championships. Back in 2013 One Sport put their idea and their money on the table, which did not please one of the FIM members who was associated with BSI. He not only blocked the idea of One Sport resurrecting World Pairs Championship but was also strongly against OneSport having anything to do with events in which SGP and SWC riders could compete. FIM, in order to comprise, allowed One Sport to stage SBPC but stressed that no one will be gaining rights to World Pairs Championships. The stalemate existed until the turn of 2015/2016 when OneSport was unexpectedly told that the World Pairs Championship will be staged by BSI. FIM message to OneSport did not mention possibility of any biding offers not only by OneSport but also by any other company. So once again FIM did a deal behind closed door with the good old friends.

[brewer]

Who's going to be interested in watching or sponsoring a mickey mouse event with made-up teams? It would be better if it took the form of domestic teams racing in some sort of international cup.

exactly, just like formula 1, moto gp, mx gp, touring cars, formula E, etc etc no one wants to watch anything like that do they.

[Ghostwalker]

exactly, just like formula 1, moto gp, mx gp, touring cars, formula E, etc etc no one wants to watch anything like that do they.

 

Imo that will be the future anyway for international championships like SGP, SEC and SBPC.

[Humphrey Appleby]

So once again FIM did a deal behind closed door with the good old friends.

 

I'm not excusing the FIM's behaviour. There's something inherently not right about selling the rights for something like 18 years at a time apparently without doing any sort of open tendering, but equally allowing a subsidiary/associated organisation to run a similar competition which will potentially compete with the SGP.

 

Less of an issue if it's a completely different type of competition like the World Pairs or Club Champions Cup type thing, but OneSport and BSI are just Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee. I simply can't see that it's a good thing that the sport's governing body is selling off competitions to private promoters here, there and everywhere. If money is to be made, it should be made by those running speedway tracks who provide the bread-and-butter and develop the riders.

 

It demonstrates the collective short-sightedness of those running speedway tracks in all countries, but especially the countries running professional speedway, that they allow this state of affairs to continue seemingly without any murmur of discontent. BSI and OneSport do nothing that the sport itself couldn't do if the will were there, as did the F1 teams when they eventually worked out their sport wasn't being run for their benefit.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby

[f-s-p]

 

OneSpoprt ideed ran it as the invitational international best pairs events... with intention to turn it into fully fledged FIM World Pairs Championships. Back in 2013 One Sport put their idea and their money on the table, which did not please one of the FIM members who was associated with BSI. He not only blocked the idea of One Sport resurrecting World Pairs Championship but was also strongly against OneSport having anything to do with events in which SGP and SWC riders could compete. FIM, in order to comprise, allowed One Sport to stage SBPC but stressed that no one will be gaining rights to World Pairs Championships. The stalemate existed until the turn of 2015/2016 when OneSport was unexpectedly told that the World Pairs Championship will be staged by BSI. FIM message to OneSport did not mention possibility of any biding offers not only by OneSport but also by any other company. So once again FIM did a deal behind closed door with the good old friends.

As this is basically copypaste from sportowefakty late last week, can you please share/add to it By giving out the name?

[uk_martin]

OneSpoprt ideed ran it as the invitational international best pairs events... with intention to turn it into fully fledged FIM World Pairs Championships. Back in 2013 One Sport put their idea and their money on the table, which did not please one of the FIM members who was associated with BSI. He not only blocked the idea of One Sport resurrecting World Pairs Championship but was also strongly against OneSport having anything to do with events in which SGP and SWC riders could compete. FIM, in order to comprise, allowed One Sport to stage SBPC but stressed that no one will be gaining rights to World Pairs Championships. The stalemate existed until the turn of 2015/2016 when OneSport was unexpectedly told that the World Pairs Championship will be staged by BSI. FIM message to OneSport did not mention possibility of any biding offers not only by OneSport but also by any other company. So once again FIM did a deal behind closed door with the good old friends.

 

For all the stick that OneSport get for, well let's be brutally honest, for being Polish, wouldn't British speedway be in a much better place if GoSpeed International Ltd (i.e. Terry Russell & wife - thanks R&R ) were to put as much effort into promoting speedway in this country as OneSport do in Poland and the rest of Europe? Amazing how much jealousy and envy they get in their necks just because they are doing something that is leaving British Speedway further and further behind whilst our authorities just "bah humbug" everything that happens east of the North Sea / English Channel.,

[f-s-p]

 

For all the stick that OneSport get for, well let's be brutally honest, for being Polish, wouldn't British speedway be in a much better place if GoSpeed International Ltd (i.e. Terry Russell & wife - thanks R&R ) were to put as much effort into promoting speedway in this country as OneSport do in Poland and the rest of Europe? Amazing how much jealousy and envy they get in their necks just because they are doing something that is leaving British Speedway further and further behind whilst our authorities just "bah humbug" everything that happens east of the North Sea / English Channel.,

OneSport now has 11 meetings a year. Whats on GoSpeeds plate?

 

EDIT: 9 to 11 meetings

Edited January 19, 2016 by f-s-p

[Humphrey Appleby]

Amazing how much jealousy and envy they get in their necks just because they are doing something that is leaving British Speedway further and further behind whilst our authorities just "bah humbug" everything that happens east of the North Sea / English Channel

No-one would hold up GoSpeed as example of great promotion, but what is OneSport doing that's so great? Running meetings largely at 'traditional' venues, borrowing the riders, and claiming that BSI is some sort of evil British plot to take over speedway.

 

What is the SEC, SGP and all other privately promoted events actually doing for the sport? Are they bringing more fans, sponsorship or television money to the tracks who employ the riders day-to-day or train the riders in the first place, whether directly or indirectly? What is the overall benefit to the sport, other than it gives armchair speedway fans something to watch?

 

These private promotion companies are skimming the cream without having to have any responsibility for the underlying structure of the sport.

[uk_martin]

...what is OneSport doing that's so great?

 

They are "promoting" - check it out in the dictionary because few people on this island seem to know what it means any more

They are raising the profile of the sport.

They are getting the sport into the press

They are putting their money where their mouths are

They attract the kind of riders that the British Leagues don't have a hope in hell of attracting

They run tournaments like the SEC which produces some of the finest racing in places (like Russia) where BSI don't go

They allow the promotion of their events on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and other Social Media

They don't ban photos and videos of speedway from getting into the public domain were people can get to see them.

They provide riders with decent rewards for the participation and success in their events.

 

They don't get too upset when crusty old Brits treat them like something brown and smelly stuck to their soles of their shoes, simply out of jealousy and envy.

... Whats on GoSpeeds plate?

 

Nothing's been announced yet, but probably one meeting a week on Subscription TV only. British speedway will only get a fraction of what the TV earnings are that OneSport offer up, from it's "grateful for what it can get" deal off SkySports.

ZERO - videos on YouTube or on any other Video Hosting web site

ZERO - photos on Flickr or any other photo hosting web site

ZERO - permissions to use photos or videos for private publicity campaigns

ZERO - transmission of Polish League speedway outside of Poland to which they have (or possibly "had" now - in the past tense) the Worldwide Media Rights to.

 

And if anyone thinks that the Sky deal is so great, try going to one, Unlike in Poland where the TV company works around the running of the speedway meeting, in the UK, Sky are allowed to run the show, very slowly and very protractedly, their way, making any meeting that they broadcast a "stay away" event for the fans and helping to kill the sport off to the real fans.

[Ghostwalker]

 

They are "promoting" - check it out in the dictionary because few people on this island seem to know what it means any more

They are raising the profile of the sport.

They are getting the sport into the press

They are putting their money where their mouths are

They attract the kind of riders that the British Leagues don't have a hope in hell of attracting

They run tournaments like the SEC which produces some of the finest racing in places (like Russia) where BSI don't go

They allow the promotion of their events on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and other Social Media

They don't ban photos and videos of speedway from getting into the public domain were people can get to see them.

They provide riders with decent rewards for the participation and success in their events.

 

They don't get too upset when crusty old Brits treat them like something brown and smelly stuck to their soles of their shoes, simply out of jealousy and envy.

 

I think the most important is that have teamed up with Eursosport to get a trans-European* coverage without having to negotiate separate deals for each country/market.

*Eurosport can also be seen outside Europe in some extent in Asia and I do belive that they are.

 

Their actual arrangements needs some work though. Over 3,5 hours for a SEC meeting is almost on hour too much.

There were also some questionable decisions regarding track prep for the Kumla round last year.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Ghostwalker

[Humphrey Appleby]

They attract the kind of riders that the British Leagues don't have a hope in hell of attracting

If Britain ran four meetings a year then it could also get all the top riders. I doubt there would be many professional riders though if there was only the SGP and SEC.

 

They provide riders with decent rewards for the participation and success in their events.

Last time I looked, the prize money for the SEC was worse than for the SGP which itself isn't great. Maybe some of the riders are getting ex-gratia payments as well, but the average rider is not going to have much change once their running costs are taken into account.

 

They run tournaments like the SEC which produces some of the finest racing in places (like Russia) where BSI don't go

There's good reasons why events don't go to Russia.

 

OneSport are also just going to regular speedway stadia, which is fine, but it's not that hard to put together a troupe of riders and get agreements with four speedway tracks for them to ride at. It's already been mentioned on here how much lower the inscription fees are for FIM Europe events, SEC doesn't run at any one-off venues like the Millennium or Friends Arena with the attendant costs of that, and quite possibly the host tracks are carrying the financial risk too. So really what money are OneSport putting where the mouths are?

 

And if anyone thinks that the Sky deal is so great, try going to one, Unlike in Poland where the TV company works around the running of the speedway meeting, in the UK, Sky are allowed to run the show, very slowly and very protractedly, their way, making any meeting that they broadcast a "stay away" event for the fans and helping to kill the sport off to the real fans

You're comparing apples and oranges. Speedway is a minor league sport in Britain that Sky uses as cheaper filler on the quieter days of the week, and one with an unappealing demographic for sponsors and advertisers. Whilst the popularity of speedway in Poland is much exaggerated, it is a popular regional sport with much better crowds and is therefore able to get much better deals. Having said that though, they seem to squander the money anyway as the lamentable state of Polish league finances demonstrates.

 

No-one would hold up Britain as a shining example of how to promote speedway, but it's a quite a different thing to put on 200-300 weekly speedway meetings at all levels than to run 4 with cherry picked riders. And for better or worse, British speedway has been running for nearly 90 years, whereas OneSport have been around for how long?

Edited January 21, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby

[uk_martin]

If Britain ran four meetings a year then it could also get all the top riders. I doubt there would be many professional riders though if there was only the SGP and SEC.

Would we?

 

Last time I looked, the prize money for the SEC was worse than for the SGP which itself isn't great. Maybe some of the riders are getting ex-gratia payments as well, but the average rider is not going to have much change once their running costs are taken into account.

I said it was "decent", not the best. If it's enough to lure Nicki Pedersen and Emil Sayfutdinov, then it can't be bad. It was enough to tempt Scott Nicholls into wanting to take part before he was prevented in doing so by Britains wonderful authorities. So much for allowing that long time stalwart of British Speedway to earn a pre-retirement nest egg.

 

There's good reasons why events don't go to Russia.

I suppose if you don't have Emil Sayfutdinov and the Laguta Brothers in your circus there's no reason to go there at all is there?

 

OneSport are also just going to regular speedway stadia, which is fine, but it's not that hard to put together a troupe of riders and get agreements with four speedway tracks for them to ride at. It's already been mentioned on here how much lower the inscription fees are for FIM Europe events, SEC doesn't run at any one-off venues like the Millennium or Friends Arena with the attendant costs of that, and quite possibly the host tracks are carrying the financial risk too. So really what money are OneSport putting where the mouths are?

Nothing wrong with going to regular speedway stadia. You don't get a series of balls-ups like Gelsenkirchen, Warsaw, Tampere, Riga etc etc You get a regularly used settled track, and you know what to expect from it. Good news for the paying public who get to see a good show.

 

If you can't see any running costs involved, then why not run some events for yourself? What have you got to lose?

 

Say what you like about the merits of cherry picking the elite and running a few showcase events, as opposed to running speedway at all levels, but for the best will in the world, you'll never get the sport to prosper without capturing the imagination of the public. I belong to a generation who picked up my first darts because of watching Eric Bristow on television and I'd never have gone to see my local basketball team if I hadn't have seen the Harlem Globetrotters first.

 

There's another thread just started, re-visiting the matter of involving Barry Hearn in speedway. Apparently he'd be seen as a saviour of the sport... EXCEPT, have you ever seen Barry Hearn in a boxing ring sparring with a novice boxer when he was a boxing promoter? Did you ever see Barry Hearn down the local snooker club potting balls with the locals? This great saviour also believes that if you raise the profile of the sport at the top, what happens at the lower levels of the sport will be enhanced as a result of it. People seem to think that this approach works, because they all seem to be heralding him.

[RobMcCaffery]

I think we have to accept that ukmartin is totally blinkered and obsessive when it comes to Polish speedway matters. If we just accept all is perfect perhaps we can return to a sane discussion of matters on track, or at least the surviving tracks rather than the juvenile "My choice of speedway's better than yours"?

 

Whatever OneSport are doing, I think we can be certain that they're doing it for the benefit of no-one other than themselves. The international fixture list is cluttered enough already.

Edited January 21, 2016 by rmc

[Ghostwalker]

I think we have to accept that ukmartin is totally blinkered and obsessive when it comes to Polish speedway matters. If we just accept all is perfect perhaps we can return to a sane discussion of matters on track, or at least the surviving tracks rather than the juvenile "My choice of speedway's better than yours"?

 

Whatever OneSport are doing, I think we can be certain that they're doing it for the benefit of no-one other than themselves. The international fixture list is cluttered enough already.

 

Just like BSI/IMG and most other companies that that involves themselves in sport as either sponsors and or promoters.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Ghostwalker

[Humphrey Appleby]

If you can't see any running costs involved, then why not run some events for yourself? What have you got to lose?

I'm not interested enough in speedway these days and I already run an amateur motor sports series anyway. I'm also not close enough to the speedway powers-that-be to 'arrange' the rights because they don't seem to be tendered.

 

Say what you like about the merits of cherry picking the elite and running a few showcase events, as opposed to running speedway at all levels, but for the best will in the world, you'll never get the sport to prosper without capturing the imagination of the public.

It's not about not running showcase events, but about who runs them. The likes of the FIFA World Cup, Olympics, IPL and BBL are run by the governing bodies of those sports, are coordinated with existing competitions, and the benefits accrue to them. Darts and snooker are not really comparable as they were games without any particularly established competition or governance structure until third parties came along looking for cheap televise content, and also don't exist as spectator sports beyond the very small professional circuits.

 

This great saviour also believes that if you raise the profile of the sport at the top, what happens at the lower levels of the sport will be enhanced as a result of it. People seem to think that this approach works, because they all seem to be heralding him.

Then why does Barry Hearn not promote speedway which should be ripe for his promotional skills? The simple fact of the matter is he cherry picked sports with low overheads, with few professionals who earned virtually nothing, and where there was little established competition structure that needed supporting, and what did exist was amateur.

 

Yes, he's been very successful at what he's done, but would it work with speedway? Probably not which is why he's not gone there.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Humphrey Appleby

[Humphrey Appleby]

I suppose if you don't have Emil Sayfutdinov and the Laguta Brothers in your circus there's no reason to go there at all is there?

When you do anything in Russia, you need 'official' blessing otherwise travel visas get mysteriously delayed, equipment gets held up in customs or worse disappears completely, and if you manage to get your money than consider that a bonus. If the powers-that-be want something to happen then nothing is a problem, if not then expect every obstacle to be put in your way, including various threats if you don't get the message.

 

Basically someone needs to be paid off, and prospective promoters need to decide whether that's worth their while or not. Plus local promoters get bumped off as well, which was possibly a bit discouraging for BSI.