waiheke1 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 It's a bit like pc vs Mauger and Olsen. Collins was the better racer, but when you look at their records it's hard to argue he is anything but third. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Nicki had two very good seasons in 2007 and 2008. But when judging the overall record over the 5 seasons, it's Crumpie for me: World Championship: Crump Pedersen 2006 1st 3rd 2007 3rd 1st 2008 2nd 1st 2009 1st 6th 2010 3rd 10th All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 (edited) Not this debate again Pedersen has always been a class above gollob, and the stats back it up. Is the Roll of honour record gospel to you "Pinny? not for me as a example was Peter Collins not a better rider than Egon Muller and Jerzy Szczakiel the roll of honour says they all won a title each.! Edited February 10, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 No its not gospel but apart from the odd time Pedersen has been better than gollob throughout that peroid and only a numpty like yourself will argue otherwise. Like him or loathe him Pedersen has been a class act. Gollobs pathetic attitude to not trying if there aint a line around the fence doesnt help his cause and taking so long to master big circuits. Pedersen and crump, imo, were a level above gollob during that era. Excitement doesnt come into it - id prefer to watch charlie gjedde or frankie smart over hancock any day of the week - doesnt make them better riders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Gollob had an amazing career and was top value to watch, but I think both Crump and Pedersen are ahead of him. It's arguable as to who is best between Crump and Pedersen (I'd say Crumpie, but there was definitely a spell when Nicki was on top), but Gollob doesn't really come into the argument. Too inconsistent, compared to the other two. Gollob had one year he was on it throughout (2010), but otherwise he's struggled to maintain his momentum throughout a whole season. Mind you, if it was a last-heat decider in the World Cup, he's the rider I'd want ahead of any of them. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) Gollob had an amazing career and was top value to watch, but I think both Crump and Pedersen are ahead of him. It's arguable as to who is best between Crump and Pedersen (I'd say Crumpie, but there was definitely a spell when Nicki was on top), but Gollob doesn't really come into the argument. Too inconsistent, compared to the other two. Gollob had one year he was on it throughout (2010), but otherwise he's struggled to maintain his momentum throughout a whole season. Mind you, if it was a last-heat decider in the World Cup, he's the rider I'd want ahead of any of them. All the best Rob I believe Rob that Gollob's best was better than Pedersen full stop talent wise no comparison.Another example Pedersen three titles Ole three titles so on achievement roll of honour both level.Again Ole again for me a different class to Pedersen and Rob have you forgot Gollob has been on the podium a few times not a record to be sniffed at. Edited February 12, 2016 by Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) I started this thread to generate a bit of interest in some of the great names of the past and to get people's views on who they thought the greatest were.I didn't start it so that two people could just behave like kids in the playground and hurl ridiculously childish insults at each other. Start up your own thread if you want to do that and leave this one to the grown ups. Thank you. Edited February 12, 2016 by norbold 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I wish that I was able to have seen more of Ronnie Moore. To think that he gave Britain a miss for a number of seasons during the sixties but then returned (1969) and carried on his high scoring as if he'd never been away. Now that's class in anyone's language! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I wish that I was able to have seen more of Ronnie Moore. To think that he gave Britain a miss for a number of seasons during the sixties but then returned (1969) and carried on his high scoring as if he'd never been away. Now that's class in anyone's language! More up-to-date, I sometimes wonder just how great Todd Wiltshire would have been, without the shattered pelvis that took him out of the sport for 5 years. He spent all that time out of racing, yet got back into the Grand Prix within a couple of years of starting again (rode Germany in 1997, rode for Oxford in 1998, qualifying for GP by winning 1999 ICF at Poole). Reached his first two finals in the GP in 2000, as well. How good would Todd have been if he hadn't been injured in 1992? A multiple World Champion? All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) The spread of dominance by Ivan on the original list is too broad. Yes, he won more individual world titles than anyone else during that period but there were some specific seasons where others were more prominent overall. 1971 was Ole Olsen's year, underlined by his brilliant last-to-first in the decisive race of the World Final, where he came from miles back to blow Ivan away. In the previous round, the European Final, he has passed Ivan before being hit by mechanical problems. As previously mentioned, 1973 belonged to Anders Michanek, who won virtually every meeting that mattered apart from the ultimate one. 1976 had to be PC's year. In addition to what he did in such thrilling style at Katowice, he won about nine top individual meetings in Britain that season, including the GP, which was another sure sign of his consistency. Simmo was a close second to Peter that year, with Ivan behind them both. As mentioned by Rob, I'd also give 1979 and 1980 to Mike Lee, who was the only man to beat Ivan in the '79 final. Edited February 12, 2016 by tmc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reviresco Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 The spread of dominance by Ivan on the original list is too broad. Yes, he won more individual world titles than anyone else during that period but there were some specific seasons where others were more prominent overall. But, as norbold has stated, this isn't about the 'top' rider in a given year. This is about a dominant rider in an era. A rider who was looked at as the one to beat. The one the others looked up to. Year on Year top riders have been discussed on other Threads. The way that arnieg has looked at this is more comparable. How good would Todd have been if he hadn't been injured in 1992? A multiple World Champion? No, not a multiple World Champion. Would have troubled the top 3 a few times though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 But, as norbold has stated, this isn't about the 'top' rider in a given year. This is about a dominant rider in an era. A rider who was looked at as the one to beat. The one the others looked up to. Year on Year top riders have been discussed on other Threads. The way that arnieg has looked at this is more comparable. Yes, exactly, that was the point I was making. It wasn't mean to be a yearly comparison. Of course that would come out differently. It was to look at the era as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) I started this thread to generate a bit of interest in some of the great names of the past and to get people's views on who they thought the greatest were. I didn't start it so that two people could just behave like kids in the playground and hurl ridiculously childish insults at each other. Start up your own thread if you want to do that and leave this one to the grown ups. Thank you. I am very sorry Norbold will not even make a post again, like TWK i give in give up don't really enjoy reading the posts anymore. I do opologise for this thread and i was very wrong in doing what i did i have learned loads from you over the years i hope you continue enjoying and watching your speedway. Edited February 13, 2016 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted February 13, 2016 Report Share Posted February 13, 2016 Sid. Don't quit, just step away from the keyboard when you feel the red mist descend. You have a lot to contribute to the years gone by threads in particular, just not when you're threatening to punch people out 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Sid. Don't quit, just step away from the keyboard when you feel the red mist descend. You have a lot to contribute to the years gone by threads in particular, just not when you're threatening to punch people outThanks,to be honest i really enjoy the years gone by thread and there are some real good blokes on here that we can all learn a bit off.There are a few on here who we know who they are that really get to me big time,for me to ignore and say nothing.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Yes, exactly, that was the point I was making. It wasn't mean to be a yearly comparison. Of course that would come out differently. It was to look at the era as a whole. So is there anything to debate here? As your list correctly states, Ivan was the dominant man from 1968-79, in terms of both domestic and international achievements. No argument. No debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) I started this thread to generate a bit of interest in some of the great names of the past and to get people's views on who they thought the greatest were. I didn't start it so that two people could just behave like kids in the playground and hurl ridiculously childish insults at each other. Start up your own thread if you want to do that and leave this one to the grown ups. Thank you. Once Sidney arrived any objective discussion goes out of the window I'm afraid Norbold. Excellent list by the way, I would also agree that it should be Tai from 2013 onwards. I'd also say that in the period 1991-93 Sam Ermolenko was the best in the world. Edited February 15, 2016 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted February 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 So is there anything to debate here? As your list correctly states, Ivan was the dominant man from 1968-79, in terms of both domestic and international achievements. No argument. No debate. It seems not about that period, but there is debate on other periods, particularly the more recent eras. Greg or Tai; Jason or Nicki. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'd also say that in the period 1991-93 Sam Ermolenko was the best in the world. Jan O Pedersen and Hans Nielsen were better in 1991, and Per Jonsson was better in 1992. Ermolenko was the best rider in the world in 1993. Again, it's not who was best in an individual year - it's who was better over the whole timeframe. Ermolenko doesn't come near Nielsen over 1983-1995. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted February 15, 2016 Report Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) Jan O Pedersen and Hans Nielsen were better in 1991, and Per Jonsson was better in 1992. Ermolenko was the best rider in the world in 1993. Again, it's not who was best in an individual year - it's who was better over the whole timeframe. Ermolenko doesn't come near Nielsen over 1983-1995. All the best Rob Of course he doesn't, but I stand by the argument that 1991-93 Ermolenko was the dominant rider.. a period only ended due to another serious injury, which allowed Nielsen to reclaim it in 94/95. Jan O put it together on World Final night in 1991, but in the league he was 9.54.. Ermolenko 10.74. Nielsen 10.50. Ermolenko also won the BLRC in 91 of course, when the competition actually still meant something. Edited February 15, 2016 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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