3 Point Reserves

[TheCookster]

When did they put a limit on Team Building averages?

 

I don't know. That's why I asked the question in the first place.

 

(Edited for spelling)

Edited January 14, 2016 by TheCookster

[stevehone]

expect goalposts to be moved as per Steve Boxall when he was averaging high from 'protected' reserve for Rye House

[Joseq7]

 

 

And how do you propose classifying riders into Grades? From their Average?

 

Didn't the Conference League utilise 'Rider Gradings' (11 down to 2) a decade or so ago which were based on Average, age and experience, but then all teams still had to come in under a combined Grading Limit and had to have 2 x Grade 2's and only 1 x Grade 11?

 

Averages or Grades? Does it make a lot of difference? To provide a reasonable playing field (racing track) some form of 'limit' seems a reasonable method of equalising team strengths and, has been alluded to, has to be better than a return to Rider Control.

 

There's no doubt that Averages in the EL have become skewed and made it more difficult to use them simply to build team strength's up to a combined set limit. but what other method can you employ? Other sports have introduced 'wage caps', but these seem to be open to all sorts of abuse.

 

Personally, I certainly wouldn't want to run speedway under a 'who pays most' wins basis.

 

Apologies - gone off Thread here.

 

 

Fair enough.

 

I haven't given this hours and hours of thought but.........

 

Keep the averages going on, in the background, same calculation as now.

 

Yes, grade the riders as per their averages.

 

For example:

 

Grade A = 9.00 - 12.00

Grade B = 7.00 - 9.00

Grade C = 5.50 - 7.00

Grade D = 3.00 - 5.50

Grade E = <3.00

 

Team make is 1 x A + 2 x B + 2 x C + 1 x D + 1 x E

 

Clearly the problem with my suggestion - before anyone else mentions it is that one team could have a team average equivalent to the old average of 52.50 and one team could have the equivalent of 40.

 

However it would help with a team being say 0.50 - 1.00 over from one year to the next.

[foamfence]

 

Fair enough.

 

I haven't given this hours and hours of thought but.........

 

Keep the averages going on, in the background, same calculation as now.

 

Yes, grade the riders as per their averages.

 

For example:

 

Grade A = 9.00 - 12.00

Grade B = 7.00 - 9.00

Grade C = 5.50 - 7.00

Grade D = 3.00 - 5.50

Grade E = <3.00

 

Team make is 1 x A + 2 x B + 2 x C + 1 x D + 1 x E

 

Clearly the problem with my suggestion - before anyone else mentions it is that one team could have a team average equivalent to the old average of 52.50 and one team could have the equivalent of 40.

 

However it would help with a team being say 0.50 - 1.00 over from one year to the next.

Or any combination that reaches the same (or lower) total?

[tyretrax]

Did he not ride for Glasgow too?

Parks taught him about team riding at Glasgow.

Edited January 14, 2016 by tyretrax

[Fromafar]

I don't know. That's why I asked the question in the first place.

 

(Edited for spelling)

I don't see any question in your post I'm afraid.You just stated there were averages in 1971 ,you never explained in what context they were used.I first attended speedway in 1960 riders had averages then but it was not used for Team Building the way it is now with limits imposed on team strengths .When the leagues merged in 1965 there was some very strong Teams that were in original National League,they gave the Provincial League League Teams some beatings, but it gave some great excitement when they came to Old Meadowbank.I don't mind if one Team dominated the sport it would give the others something to aim for.I don't think there is a lot of money in the sport to the extent that it would damage the lesser Teams and might attract bigger attendances to smaller clubs when these Teams visit.All we have now is riders worrying about their average and very weak teams.Most fans would like to see their Teams being developed without being broken up because of averages. Edited January 14, 2016 by Fromafar

[TheCookster]

 

When were averages not used in speedway? I've been watching since 1971 and averages were already being used then.

 

 

I don't see any question in your post I'm afraid.You just stated there were averages in 1971 ,you never explained in what context they were used.I first attended speedway in 1960 riders had averages then but it was not used for Team Building the way it is now with limits imposed on team strengths .When the leagues merged in 1965 there was some very strong Teams that were in original National League,they gave the Provincial League League Teams some beatings, but it gave some great excitement when they came to Old Meadowbank.I don't mind if one Team dominated the sport it would give the others something to aim for.I don't think there is a lot of money in the sport to the extent that it would damage the lesser Teams and might attract bigger attendances to smaller clubs when these Teams visit.All we have now is riders worrying about their average and very weak teams.Most fans would like to see their Teams being developed without being broken up because of averages.

 

The question you 'don't see' was the the very first part of my post: 'When were averages not used in speedway?' The question mark at the end of the sentence was the clue that it was a question.

[AlanF]

Everything is way too complicated. Every team should have two British riders 23 or under. No foreigner's average should ever be below 6 for team building. Apply to both leagues. Plenty of opportunities for British riders. Any scheme that harms riders like Branford because he is 3.6 and not 3 does not make sense.

[ecksact]

Everything is way too complicated. Every team should have two British riders 23 or under. No foreigner's average should ever be below 6 for team building. Apply to both leagues. Plenty of opportunities for British riders. Any scheme that harms riders like Branford because he is 3.6 and not 3 does not make sense.

Absolutely 100%. Surely no-one disagrees with this?

 

Agree again! If the high-average foreign riders weren't around, there'd be more spaces for British riders, but particularly in the EL, I would have thought.

 

Your argument is again correct, though isn't Branford Australian? Mute point, because your actual point makes sense.

 

When started to reply to your post, I thought I was gonna disagree with some points (hence the colours!) but the more I typed, the more I realised I agreed with you! t looks nice, though!:-P

[foamfence]

Everything is way too complicated. Every team should have two British riders 23 or under. No foreigner's average should ever be below 6 for team building. Apply to both leagues. Plenty of opportunities for British riders. Any scheme that harms riders like Branford because he is 3.6 and not 3 does not make sense.

He's had years to get a decent average, why did he get dropped and Clegg didn't?

[TheScotsman]

I don't see what is the big preoccupation with age.

 

Amount of experience maybe but not age.

 

It's discriminatory.

[ecksact]

Someone asked on another thread, "What happens if your 3 pt reserve gets injured in the first reserves race"? Basically an extension of my original question but much more pertinent and highly realistic.

 

Does anyone have any clue?

[therefused]

Someone asked on another thread, "What happens if your 3 pt reserve gets injured in the first reserves race"? Basically an extension of my original question but much more pertinent and highly realistic.

 

Does anyone have any clue?

the same as previous years. the other reserve can replace them. i dont understand why this is such a hard question?

[RS50]

Yes but heat four is supposed to be a protected race where the number 7 can not normally be replaced by the number 6. So does this mean this rule is waved under this situation, or does the team have to race with one rider only.

[foamfence]

Yes but heat four is supposed to be a protected race where the number 7 can not normally be replaced by the number 6. So does this mean this rule is waved under this situation, or does the team have to race with one rider only.

Depends whether the track Doctor has received a brown envelope.

[Ellesmeregunner]

My opinion is that the BSPA got this one wrong.

 

I'm all for the idea of developing younger riders, however the way they have tried to do this is wrong.

 

There should have been a system similar to the EL reserve draft system of young riders that need developing and that these riders are all on a set wage regardless of who they will ride for this season. The BSPA should have some sort of fund to assist them with the cost of transport to their selected track.

 

The list of riders should compose of riders all under the age of 22 who have the potential to develop further within the sport.

 

That would be the purest way to handle the 3 point reserve situation

[Paulco]

Would it be bending the rules somewhat if you discovered an Australian rider had married a Scottish lassie and although had plenty of PL experience , though not quite reached even a 4 point average in about 5 seasons of riding PL , if a club could sneak him in at number 7 and hope nobody notices .

[Gazc]

Would it be bending the rules somewhat if you discovered an Australian rider had married a Scottish lassie and although had plenty of PL experience , though not quite reached even a 4 point average in about 5 seasons of riding PL , if a club could sneak him in at number 7 and hope nobody notices .

All depends what they pay him apparently we are paying ours heat leader money (whatever that is) breaking new's straight from Blobby who else.

[Paulco]

All depends what they pay him apparently we are paying ours heat leader money (whatever that is) breaking new's straight from Blobby who else.

Blobby , to my knowledge , hasn't been spotted recently with a tumbler at Ashfield's speedway office door . So how can he know this ? Have him and Noel Edmonds got our club's phones tapped ? Has Danny Ayres been buying a load of new and expensive clobber from the track shop ? Or has Blobby developed a Celtic supporter's sized chip on his shoulder because our club , in the words of Harry Enfield , is considerably richer , CONSIDERABLY RICHER , than his . Poor old Mitchell Davey has to have a bush tucker trial in the Armadale car park because of the wages he's been offered .

[screm]

Would it be bending the rules somewhat if you discovered an Australian rider had married a Scottish lassie and although had plenty of PL experience , though not quite reached even a 4 point average in about 5 seasons of riding PL , if a club could sneak him in at number 7 and hope nobody notices .

 

But that wouldn't be bending the rules, that would be breaking them, which is why I am sure the rule makers will enforce the rule governing 3pt PL reserves. Your club has abided by the rules, as has mine, as has every other club in the PL, every other club apart from one it seems.