How Do We Attract A New Young Audience?

[Humphrey Appleby]

John Berry as you have said WK in the past what a miss, ok he would of ruffled a few feathers but he might have done it a massive opportunity missed.

Whilst John Berry was clearly an excellent promoter, deep thinker and probably even visionary, I think him in any sort of supremo role would only have ended in disaster. He obviously didn't suffer fools gladly, but seemed to fall out with just about everyone at various times over the most trivial matters.

 

That simply wouldn't work in a supremo role. It requires firm leadership but equally a diplomatic touch, and you have to most people buying into the vision which isn't going to work if you make enemies over silly things.

 

I think in the end though, even John Berry didn't think speedway was salvageable.

[Terry]

How Do We Attract A New Young Audience--------Booze, Drugs and ladies of easy leisure

 

next question!

 

Funnily enough, that's what first attracted me to crown green bowls..

[stratton]

Whilst John Berry was clearly an excellent promoter, deep thinker and probably even visionary, I think him in any sort of supremo role would only have ended in disaster. He obviously didn't suffer fools gladly, but seemed to fall out with just about everyone at various times over the most trivial matters.That simply wouldn't work in a supremo role. It requires firm leadership but equally a diplomatic touch, and you have to most people buying into the vision which isn't going to work if you make enemies over silly things.I think in the end though, even John Berry didn't think speedway was salvageable.

But Humph you tend to forget Berry was TOUGH,had his brush with certain people but moved on.If he was put in the position which alot of us wanted to be paid but to be IMPARTIAL he would of done it.In speedway in within people i know you are the only person i know who has objected to him ok he was prickly at times but boy he knew what he was doing. Edited December 23, 2015 by sidney

[Humphrey Appleby]

In speedway in within people i know you are the only person i know who has objected to him ok he was prickly at times but boy he knew what he was doing.

I didn't say I objected to him - simply that I don't think he'd have worked out as supremo. I think plenty did object to him though - e.g. Ian Thomas slated him in his autobiography - and the fact he wasn't eventually appointed supremo by his (former) fellow promoters is probably evidence of that.

 

I'd also be the last to say he didn't know what he was doing, but as I said, you have to convince everyone else. Whilst I'd agree the BSPA can be a short-sighted bunch and it was probably very frustrating for man of John Berry's ability to have to deal with, the sheer number of falling outs with business partners, promoters and others suggests it can't always have been down to other people.

[Shale Searcher]

I honestly can't remember all this grading after every race but I'll take your word for it . I know there were always track rakers who got on swiftly with their job as soon as the riders had exited the track. I also remember after every match (not sure how many heats, 13, 15 or 18) there was at least a 6 heat second half but don't recall the evening's entertainment taking as long as it does these days. Perhaps I've just got less patient in my old age and get fed up hanging around, especially if it's cold, but reading comments on the forum I'm certainly not alone in wishing things could be speeded up a bit with less delay between heats.

Trust me, it was graded after every race (the norm) The meetings started at 7.30 and if league racing were 13 heats, then a 10 or so minutes interval and then a 7 / 8 race second half, which comprised of roughly a couple of reserve reserves races (home 6,7 away 6,7, a star of the night (3 heats, winners and fastest 2nd place to a final) and 2/3 junior races, the meeting was then closed, and the "Learners" came out for 15 minutes or so, or until they broke the fence or the lights were switched off!!!

NB

The gates were usually thrown open around heat 10/11 of the main meeting and people could then come in for free, which they did.. that may have grew the paying attendees long term!!

[stratton]

I didn't say I objected to him - simply that I don't think he'd have worked out as supremo. I think plenty did object to him though - e.g. Ian Thomas slated him in his autobiography - and the fact he wasn't eventually appointed supremo by his (former) fellow promoters is probably evidence of that.I'd also be the last to say he didn't know what he was doing, but as I said, you have to convince everyone else. Whilst I'd agree the BSPA can be a short-sighted bunch and it was probably very frustrating for man of John Berry's ability to have to deal with, the sheer number of falling outs with business partners, promoters and others suggests it can't always have been down to other people.

Ian Thomas is a fine example as why speedway has never moved on, Thomas was a fine promoter and businessman why would he let go to his piece of the pie.How many other Ian Thomas's have we had in speedway quite a few over the years that is why speedway has never progressed or moved on.Forget John then Eric Boocock would of done for me seen everything what do you think Humph.?

[Humphrey Appleby]

Forget John then Eric Boocock would of done for me seen everything what do you think Humph.?

Maybe. Has been around the speedway community and seems to command respect, but I've never really heard Eric Boocock expound any wide reaching vision on how the sport should progress, particularly commercially. Probably would be an acceptable choice, but not really sure he'd be someone to lead the sport into a new era then or now.

 

I think a supremo is more likely to be a former referee, or a young commercial manager with some involvement in speedway. I wouldn't preclude a youngish ambitious outsider with a wider grasp of sports promotion, but speedway is so unique and inward looking that I suspect no-one outside the sport would really understand it, far less want to touch it with a bargepole.

 

Generally I'd never suggest riders for such jobs, but Jan Staechmann might be worth a punt. He comes over as sensible, rational and seems to have some grasp of the bigger picture.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[ColinMills]

we have clubs that wants to win and be the best, (poole/Coventry etc) then we have teams that

want survival over success. (the prem league)..these sides are happy to break even...not a bad thing,

but if you want youngsters to get passionate about a sport, I would guess, they would want there side

to win the league and move up..but as we know in speedway, this cant happen......imagine 2 kids

getting involved in speedway, one says "who does danny king ride for"? ....."Coventry".....

"no he doesn't, Ipswich".....not the easiest starting point!

[LagutaRacingFan]

I'm 19 and into speedway, I always bring my girlfriend with me.. stops her getting into mischief at home.

 

Last time, she ended up pregnant.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Morrissey Fan

[stratton]

Maybe. Has been around the speedway community and seems to command respect, but I've never really heard Eric Boocock expound any wide reaching vision on how the sport should progress, particularly commercially. Probably would be an acceptable choice, but not really sure he'd be someone to lead the sport into a new era then or now.I think a supremo is more likely to be a former referee, or a young commercial manager with some involvement in speedway. I wouldn't preclude a youngish ambitious outsider with a wider grasp of sports promotion, but speedway is so unique and inward looking that I suspect no-one outside the sport would really understand it, far less want to touch it with a bargepole.Generally I'd never suggest riders for such jobs, but Jan Staechmann might be worth a punt. He comes over as sensible, rational and seems to have some grasp of the bigger picture.

Not at his age now Boocock, and would he of wanted to do it in the past more and likely a big NO but he would have been as good as anyone i have known in the last twenty years or so easily.Steachmann no disrespect what has he done talks well looks modern but he would not be tough anough for tough decisions Boocock certainly would of been certainly in his Pom. Edited December 24, 2015 by sidney

[steve roberts]

Ian Thomas is a fine example as why speedway has never moved on, Thomas was a fine promoter and businessman why would he let go to his piece of the pie.How many other Ian Thomas's have we had in speedway quite a few over the years that is why speedway has never progressed or moved on.Forget John then Eric Boocock would of done for me seen everything what do you think Humph.?

Ah! Ian Thomas...character as he was but always looking at ways of bending and/or manipulating the rules! No wonder he and John Berry never got on! John Berry, I'm sure, would never have allowed the situation to develop as did at Hull in 1979 whereby the 'Vikings' lost match points due to riders not appearing at vital meetings thus losing the championship that year! John may not have been everyone's cup of tea but administration was his strength and what he achieved at Ipswich was of the highest order. If I recall John and Peter York were the two who were nominated to help 'rescue' speedway before John pulled out leaving Peter to hold the reigns. Peter, in an article in 'Backtrack' some time ago, spoke at length explaining the problems whilst he was in office trying to get the promoters to pull together in the interest of the sport but failed...and so the problems continue unfortunately.

Edited December 24, 2015 by steve roberts

[Daniel Smith]

I think everyone is looking at this completely the wrong way round.

 

How do we attract youngsters, YOU HAVE TO ATTRACT THE PARENTS.

 

Kids can't attend without them.

 

Personally though, we need to aim our attention at the age group of peeps in their early 20's.

 

The majority have money, no commitments to worry about etc

 

How about group discount, this age group goes everywhere with mates and partners.

 

Lads / Lasses group nights, 20% off admission with free drink.

Discounts with a local taxi firm to take punters to the town centres etc after meetings

If there are 4 or more people in a vehicle they get a 30% admission voucher

Onsite bar with cheaper than town centre beer and club tunes / live bands

 

There are loads of things to try that would be cheaper for promoters to deliver than paying a GP riders wages

[Woz01]

There are tonnes of things the sport could do to attract a variety of ages. For me it need to be much more interactive during the meeting to pass the time between heats. It could be something very basic on the centre green, at least it gives fans something to watch or participate in. Always thought a big screen would be a good investment, for advertising, being a scoreboard and showing heats from the past during breaks. Not having a gb speedway app is poor in this day and age.

 

Songs from the 70s and rider interviews just isnt enough these days.

[Daniel Smith]

There are tonnes of things the sport could do to attract a variety of ages. For me it need to be much more interactive during the meeting to pass the time between heats. It could be something very basic on the centre green, at least it gives fans something to watch or participate in. Always thought a big screen would be a good investment, for advertising, being a scoreboard and showing heats from the past during breaks. Not having a gb speedway app is poor in this day and age.

Songs from the 70s and rider interviews just isnt enough these days.

The thing is, the BSPA are blocking modernisation of the sport.

 

Mike Bennett our presenter, use to use Twitter to interact with fans so direct questions could be asked to rider's / management, birthday messages etc etc. It was banned by the BSPA.

 

Small interactions like that help fill gaps

[CUFC_Brummie]

Personally though, we need to aim our attention at the age group of peeps in their early 20's.

 

The majority have money, no commitments to worry about etc

 

How about group discount, this age group goes everywhere with mates and partners.

 

Lads / Lasses group nights, 20% off admission with free drink.

Discounts with a local taxi firm to take punters to the town centres etc after meetings

If there are 4 or more people in a vehicle they get a 30% admission voucher

Onsite bar with cheaper than town centre beer and club tunes / live bands

 

Yup, this is the way to go, sod the family sport thing, every sport is trying that and it's never going to work in speedway, as mentioned kids get bored too easily, hype it up, make it sound dangerous, give them some beer, and heck you might even get something resembling a little bit of an atmosphere.

 

I'm in my mid-20s, I can tolerate the sport having spent 9 years watching my football team in non-league, so decrepid stadiums and amateurish running of both meetings and the sport as a whole aren't a problem for me, but for most people my age they are, and whilst they don't quite have the low attention span of children it's still fairly short, but they're fairly simplistic to grasp, however that would require some foresignt and initiative and I can't see it happening. The sad reality is that the sport is never going to take any steps forward, it's never going to get in the new audience it needs, and things will more than likely just keep getting watered down to some point somewhere down the line where all we have are amateur individual meetings in this country.

[stratton]

I think everyone is looking at this completely the wrong way round.

How do we attract youngsters, YOU HAVE TO ATTRACT THE PARENTS.

Kids can't attend without them.

Personally though, we need to aim our attention at the age group of peeps in their early 20's.

The majority have money, no commitments to worry about etc

How about group discount, this age group goes everywhere with mates and partners.

Lads / Lasses group nights, 20% off admission with free drink.

Discounts with a local taxi firm to take punters to the town centres etc after meetings

If there are 4 or more people in a vehicle they get a 30% admission voucher

Onsite bar with cheaper than town centre beer and club tunes / live bands

There are loads of things to try that would be cheaper for promoters to deliver than paying a GP riders wages

Spot on 'screamer" mostly all the folk i know that are speedway supporters have gone since they have been young uns.These supporters very rarely just start going in there twenties,for me all those suggestions you made are terrific also some families like Football can't always afford to go to both in a week certainly if they have two kids.To make it a bit cheaper would help,maybe dont even charge for kids,these kids are the ones speedway need to be coming back in the next twenty years plus,a really hard question this how to sell speedway. Edited December 24, 2015 by sidney

[steve roberts]

What attracted me to speedway all those years ago?

 

My Grandfather, father, uncle, brother were all one time fans so it was natural to follow suit.

 

The fact that you could mix with the riders after the meeting (I used to collect autographs in the pits).

 

Riders giving rides to youngsters during the interval (good old H & S!).

 

Locally based riders (I recall seeing the likes of Ashley Pullen pushing his bike to Cowley for an impromptu practice).

 

Easily recognisable riders that you could identify with (they all look the same now).

 

Playing at being the Team Manager pre-empting any tactical moves...the rules are so rigid now any tactical awareness appears to be at a minimum.

 

Second Halves whereby you could watch the youngsters plying their trade (we were fortunate at Oxford especially during the 'Rebels' days as we got to see the Eastbourne & Peterborough riders due to the promotion - Danny Dunton & Bob Dugard - running Oxford at that time).

 

ITV's 'World of Sport' who covered the sport and brought it into the homes of millions.

 

A World Championship which was just that...not an 'invitation' meeting(s) whereby riders are now chosen because it suits the staging country and/or TV coverage and/or sponsors.

 

Just a few of my personal observations but I'm not naive to understand that the world has moved on. What are the answers? I don't know...I'll leave that to others who have a better grasp of the modern sport as I stopped attending over ten years ago.

[Woz01]

The thing is, the BSPA are blocking modernisation of the sport.

 

Mike Bennett our presenter, use to use Twitter to interact with fans so direct questions could be asked to rider's / management, birthday messages etc etc. It was banned by the BSPA.

 

Small interactions like that help fill gaps

Cant even put EL meetings on you tube, the sport is stuck in the past.

Spot on 'screamer" mostly all the folk i know that are speedway supporters have gone since they have been young uns.These supporters very rarely just start going in there twenties,for me all those suggestions you made are terrific also some families like Football can't always afford to go to both in a week certainly if they have two kids.To make it a bit cheaper would help,maybe dont even charge for kids,these kids are the ones speedway need to coming back in the next twenty years plus a really hard question this how to sell speedway.

All under 16s free at Brandon next year, dropped the adult price by £1 and Students are just a fiver. They need to get the message out there pre season on normal and social media otherwise the public wont know about the reductions though.

[Grand Central]

I think everyone is looking at this completely the wrong way round.

How do we attract youngsters, YOU HAVE TO ATTRACT THE PARENTS.

Kids can't attend without them.

Personally though, we need to aim our attention at the age group of peeps in their early 20's.

The majority have money, no commitments to worry about etc

How about group discount, this age group goes everywhere with mates and partners.

Lads / Lasses group nights, 20% off admission with free drink.

Discounts with a local taxi firm to take punters to the town centres etc after meetings

If there are 4 or more people in a vehicle they get a 30% admission voucher

Onsite bar with cheaper than town centre beer and club tunes / live bands

There are loads of things to try that would be cheaper for promoters to deliver than paying a GP riders wages

The thing is, the BSPA are blocking modernisation of the sport.

Mike Bennett our presenter, use to use Twitter to interact with fans so direct questions could be asked to rider's / management, birthday messages etc etc. It was banned by the BSPA.

Small interactions like that help fill gaps

Very good contributions here.

I agree entirely

 

The sport needs to appeal to the young people with cash to splash on the night out that THEY want in 2016.

Not the night out that some sixty-odd year old duffers THINK they want.

And we need to rid the sport of the backward thinking that stifles and prevents some people with a little vision being able to move us on.

 

Too often the folk 'on the inside' are only prepared to give anyone the experience that THEY have decided upon.

Whether the public likes it or not. Tough! That is ALL they are going to get..

And they should be damned grateful for it!

 

We don't just need people In their twenties through the gate.

They are also needed within the sport to be coming up with the thinking and actions that they know will speak to their own age group.

 

Thankfully Phils lunch with Kelv has stimulated this debate.

But the best answers are going to come from people their kids age, or even younger.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Grand Central

[fatface]

Whilst John Berry was clearly an excellent promoter, deep thinker and probably even visionary, I think him in any sort of supremo role would only have ended in disaster. He obviously didn't suffer fools gladly, but seemed to fall out with just about everyone at various times over the most trivial matters.

 

That simply wouldn't work in a supremo role. It requires firm leadership but equally a diplomatic touch, and you have to most people buying into the vision which isn't going to work if you make enemies over silly things.

 

I think in the end though, even John Berry didn't think speedway was salvageable.

Agree. He was a poor England team manager on numerous occasions, alienating people rather than bringing them together. Great club promoter though.