The Doctor... Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) As I said on a thread that was deleted by gustix this morning. He is now showing huge disrespect to serious historians who have undertaken extensive work to try to give us the most accurate information on our sport's history. This sort of nonsense he is repeating is nothing short of disgraceful.. . Good post. Bobbath as a reasonably new poster is not quite as guilty as gustix and others on this forum, but the constant nitpicking is hugely disrespectful to genuine historians and individuals who put in long hours to put a permanent record of the sport pre internet, out there in the modern world. Any nerd can pick up on a frankly miniscule bit of detail when it suits their agenda, but they dont actually want to put themselves out there to do the real donkey work that other fine individuals put in, in order to serve their unhealthy obsession in the first place. Ps - Gustix, i saw online that you wanted to be a wrestler in your younger days ? Is that really true... If so, thanks for making me laugh. Regards to the white knight btw. Edited January 2, 2016 by The Doctor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor... Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 A further observation that must be borne in mind regarding the reserve riders for the 1957 world final and other subsequent finals in this period. John, can i have an answer to my question please ? Its important that all information i read on the internet is correct, and if its not i must admonish the original poster. Did you or did you not want to be a wrestler in your younger days ? T'internet says so, so it must be true, unless you say otherwise.. Btw, my missus says you look like a french, slightly depressed, non dead version of Alan Whicker. Happy new year http://www.defunctspeedway.co.uk/About%201998%20John%20Hyam.A.jpg http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1239757/images/o-ALAN-WHICKER-facebook.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I deleted the thread in question because of the inaccuracies you brought to my attention. I thought that was the best thing to do - obviously not? Was there any point in retaining it? By the way, I think that my only contributions to recording speedway history have generally been well received over the years - in fact "i have earned a few bob" in writing them up and seeing them published where generally they have generally been well received by speedway magazine readers and on various websites? Your reporting prowess of the distant past is something I find difficult to comment on. But to find you yourself, casting doubt on your own report from Wembley in1957 seems a pretty damning judgement of it's quality. But what I do know is that in the course of this discussion on this, and other similar threads, you have behaved disgracefully and disrespectfully towards people who have done the actual research. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Strange logic from a strange person.You make yourself look like a fool to try and get back at people who say your posts are idiotic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 :::: Or maybe the answer is in this book - if any member has a copy: http://www.amazon.co.uk/World-Speedway-Final-History-1929/dp/B00GSW8V5U I have a copy of that book and it gives Brian Crutcher as no. 17 ( did not ride). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BL65 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I did not attend the 1957 final but I have a programme completed by a family friend who was at Wembley on that occasion. He was renowned for completing his programmes meticulously but he did not note any changes to the reserves for the meeting, shown as Brian Crutcher and Jack Biggs. The historian Cyril May serialised The World Championship Story in Speedway Star and in part 10 published on 16th February 1968 he reported on the 1957 final, in which the reserves were listed as Crutcher and Biggs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 May I congratulate everyone for helping to get gustix to to the same place as we all reached a few weeks ago. Repetition was all that was needed, apparently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 The sheer cxxp of your latest comment bewilders me. At no stage did I raise any query - all I did was try and provide links with an answer. No John that isn't true is it? Your stupid "Was I there? - John Hyam aka gustix." Wasn't in any way trying to help solve what was in any case an already solved problem.Just your usual cxxp that we are used to when other people try to discuss speedway history.Seems you somehow feel all history threads/discussions should involve you and when they are not started by you,you feel the need to bring them down to your level.All but the newcomers know you by now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I'm beginning to wish I'd never brought this up!! But I agree with gustix re historical accuracy is important-for me its Crutcher and Biggs as nrr's and Westerberg to be on next years "I'm a celebrity get me out of here"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor... Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 I'm beginning to wish I'd never brought this up!! But I agree with gustix re historical accuracy is important-for me its Crutcher and Biggs as nrr's and Westerberg to be on next years "I'm a celebrity get me out of here"! But do you agree that it's a little unfair to demand such accuracy and make such a fuss while contributing zero to the actual projects that you are tearing apart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 (edited) Looking back BOBBATH, this thread was a thought-provoking exercise and fully justified having an airing on here. It may have caused some excitable reaction from some quarters and even the usual and expected caustic comments from the usual "other posters". But it's all been sorted out now with an acceptable resolution. For my part I look forward as I am sure quite a gew other Posters doto your next thread on here. Keep posting...!!! It was sorted on the other thread.All you done was try and confuse things......presumably so you could act the hero and solve the problem a while after it had already been solved.And like you, I look forward to the next Bobbath classic after his muslim + homosexual speedway rider threads...... Edited January 3, 2016 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Just got a note from Andy Povey-Andy contacted Rob Bamford and Rob admitted he got his info. from what may be an incorrect wikipaedia entry-and that was his only source. In light of all the info that has now been submitted Andy's website has been revised to delete Westerberg and reinstate Brian Crutcher as nrr. I stressed to Andy that I thought his website was superb and would undoubtedly become the future historical record-and in raising this issue my only interest was historical accuracy. His commitment to accuracy is probably greater than mine and he appreciates any input re upgrades. If any posters offended by the content of my posts I sincerely apologise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveallan81 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 BOBBATH, on 03 Jan 2016 - 4:46 PM, said:I'm beginning to wish I'd never brought this up!! But I agree with gustix re historical accuracy is important-for me its Crutcher and Biggs as nrr's and Westerberg to be on next years "I'm a celebrity get me out of here"! I think there are only 17 riders on parade in the Pathe clip. Front row has 9 - 3 Swedes followed by a German, another Swede, an Aussie, a Norwegian and two Brits. However the back row only has 8 - 2 NZ, followed by 2 Brits, an Aussie, another 2 Brits and an Aussie. Two things are certain - there's only one Norwegian body colour in evidence and I'm useless at identifying old riders. Crutcher clearly took no part in the event and I think that crediting him with an 'appearance' then attaching a note that he didn't actually attend (as per the SGB site) is misguiding. Rob Bamford produces outstanding work and if he says Westerberg was there then I'd be inclined to believe it - yet Westerberg receives no credit on the SGB site. However, I find it hard to believe that Westerberg would have missed the chance to parade at a World Final and there's definitely only one Norwegian body colour in that clip. The only way to solve this conclusively is to go back to source and see what evidence he has or find a programme that clearly shows Westerberg replacing Crutcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Looking back BOBBATH, this thread was a thought-provoking exercise and fully justified having an airing on here. It may have caused some excitable reaction from some quarters and even the usual and expected caustic comments from the usual "other posters". But it's all been sorted out now with an acceptable resolution. For my part I look forward as I am sure quite a gew other Posters do to your next thread on here. Keep posting...!!! Ta much gustix, was just trying to make sure things are accurate. Comment much appreciated, maybe next time I'm in UK can buy you a pint(may even be able to bring Reg Fearman and Brian Crutcher along)!! Always enjoy your posts too particularly about 1950's-60's riders e.g. Jim Tebby etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted January 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 It was sorted on the other thread.All you done was try and confuse things......presumably so you could act the hero and solve the problem a while after it had already been solved.And like you, I look forward to the next Bobbath classic after his muslim + homosexual speedway rider threads...... Hi iris, thanx for remembering my classic threads from quite a few years -you didn't mention my jewish speedway riders thread though!! Anyway all the best for 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Rob Bamford produces outstanding work and if he says Westerberg was there then I'd be inclined to believe it. The only way to solve this conclusively is to go back to source and see what evidence he has or find a programme that clearly shows Westerberg replacing Crutcher. Rob Bamford did not produce any outstanding work. He says himself that he just took it from Wikipedia. Every programme so far discovered and quoted shows that Brian Crutcher was reserve on the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Hi iris, thanx for remembering my classic threads from quite a few years -you didn't mention my jewish speedway riders thread though!! Anyway all the best for 2016 Some things you never forget.Just like the old "have you ever met a speedway rider in the supermarket?" thread.Not one of yours,that one though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Although amusingly if you look at wikipedia it claims its source is Rob Bamford's book - which can't be true as that references Crutcher not Westerburg!! :blink: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BL65 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 Gustix was entirely correct in post #30. The only way that Westerberg could have been included in proceedings at the World Final would have been as a replacement for a European Final qualifier. There were four qualifying rounds in the European section, at Abensberg, Lahti, Oslo and Warsaw, with semi-finals at Oslo and Vienna, followed by the final at Vaxjo in Sweden. The qualifiers were Sormander, Soderman, Hofmeister, Nygren and Hansen, with Forsberg as first stand-by. Forsberg replaced Nygren in the programmed line up at Wembley. With Forsberg taking part in the meeting, Westerberg became first stand-by in the event of any of the European qualifiers withdrawing before the World Final. He could be described as a stand-by reserve, but not a meeting reserve. There was a run-off at Wimbledon on 2nd September to determine the British reserves (and therefore meeting reserves), with Crutcher winning from Biggs and Ken Middleditch. The British qualifying reserves would have taken the place of any British riders withdrawing before the Final and could also have taken rides in heats of the meeting if called upon to replace other riders. If Crutcher had taken the decision not to participate in the meeting then the rules provided that Biggs would have moved up to First Reserve and Ken Middleditch would have become Second Reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 3, 2016 Report Share Posted January 3, 2016 It was sorted on the other thread.All you done was try and confuse things......presumably so you could act the hero and solve the problem a while after it had already been solved. Excellent comment BL65. So it appears that I have been basically correct throughout this rather tedious debate rather than wrong as "so many experts" other than your self and norbold have in the main judged me? Looks like my hunch was right 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.