Jon Cook

[LisaColette]

Every business, group, organisation or section of the public has a proportion of people in it who could be classed as 'thick', many also with a degree of 'bias'!!

 

The issue is whether they should be told so.

 

The old adage 'the customer is always right', may well still have some truth - but it doesn't mean they can't also be thick and biased?! But again do you say so - or worse - in print in the media or on a forum?

 

That's my Sunday 'Thought of the Day' !!

If you want that person or people to part with their hard earned money then calling them thick and/or biased is a bit odd!

[g13webb]

I think the whole article in the SS was a Kop-out, and the name calling at the end of the passage was nothing more than a smokescreen to hide the true implications of their decisions. He states CMA are all over the place and bear no relevance to the rider, only the position he races at, He then demises the idea of weighted calculation saying their were no exact formula that would be fair to all. I find this contrary to the used method of BSPA of converting PL and EL averages. Surely that's not an exact formula either, but it is the accepted practice.

 

In a sport where the CMA is of paramount importance, we now have a system where the Reserves and Second strings score points, more easy than the top riders, giving false calculation of team strength. To try and rectify this situation, it was decided to construct a Heatleader list, allowing teams to pick only three. This may have assured some form of equality between the team building, but it will do nothing to assist the levelling of the points collection in their races. The heat leaders will have the hardest races, followed by the Second Strings and the Reserves outscoring all with they're protected format. When the first set of figures become a available, we will have 2nd Strings riding at Reserve , we might even have Reserves riding as heat leaders. In fact all the reasons why the format was changed to have like riding against like will the go out of the window. Then we have to ask why was it changed in the first place.

 

Regardless of how the list was assembled, it has now created another problem in that riders not on the list are more valuable to teams than those on it. Riders like Lambert and Buzz are now worth their weight in gold.

It would have been so simple and straight forward to have weighted the CMA of all the riders, as illustrated by SCB ( poster not the organisation) when a heat leader list would not have been necessary . The CMA would then have meant something. Without being, a true representation of riders ability, the CMA serves no purpose at all.

[Tsunami]

The past two years have the appearances of things being made up as they go along with inability to think or plan ahead. This appearance is further enforced by the poor communication and apparent unwillingness to be transparent with the customers. When things do get disclosed, it seems to re-inforce the negative impressions.

If forward planning has actually been going on, they have chosen to keep it confidential but it would have been better to have been more open. But I agree with Kester it would seem very little forward thinking has been happening.

For the organisation in question to refer to some of its customers as "thick", is beyond thick!

Except it is NOT the organisation(BSPA) that is saying it, but it is Jon Cook. Big difference if the criticism is to levelled at someone.

Every business, group, organisation or section of the public has a proportion of people in it who could be classed as 'thick', many also with a degree of 'bias'!!

 

The issue is whether they should be told so.

 

The old adage 'the customer is always right', may well still have some truth - but it doesn't mean they can't also be thick and biased?! But again do you say so - or worse - in print in the media or on a forum?

 

That's my Sunday 'Thought of the Day' !!

I never believe the customer is 'always right', as they don't usually have all the facts most times, but I have got to say Cook was out of order saying what he said. Just as wrong as SCB was to reply with a worse response.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Tsunami

[TonyE]

Whatever 'cock-ups' the powers that be have made in the past, it does at least appear, that the infamous 'Heatleader List' was arrived at in 'democratic' fashion!

[E I Addio]

I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong but I thought it was Stuart Douglas who keeps the sport going at Lakeside, has Cook bought him out.

Stuart undoubtedly saved the club by ploughing in a lot of money when Ronnie Russell pulled out. According to Jon Cooks programme notes he made a financial input initially that can never be repaid. From what I understand the club was more or less balancing the books each year once Stuart put it back on its feet . When I said Jon Cook saved the club I was thinking of the effort he put in to gather support from the local council, local MP, and other sources when closure looked on the cards last season. To give Cook his due, he resigned his position on the MC to focus on keeping the place from closure, and as he now admitted in Speedwáy Star the off track matters caused him to take his eye off the ball as far as team performances were concerned. That is probably why he will be TM himself next year with support from Kelvin Tatum.

As far as I know the threat of closure still hangs in the air but there is now some breathing space compared to a year ago. Efforts to find a new site are continuing. Stuart has been straight with the fans from day one in that he wants the club to balance the books as far as possible rather than him simply being a benefactor that picks up the bills come what may.

If you want that person or people to part with their hard earned money then calling them thick and/or biased is a bit odd!

If you want people to part with their hard earned money there are lots of things you need to do, like sticking to the rules and running a slick presentation , but they frequently don't happen in Speedwáy. If they were to concentrate on getting those things right the crowds would be healthier and what someone says or doesn't say in an interview pales into insignificance by comparison.

[LisaColette]

Stuart undoubtedly saved the club by ploughing in a lot of money when Ronnie Russell pulled out. According to Jon Cooks programme notes he made a financial input initially that can never be repaid. From what I understand the club was more or less balancing the books each year once Stuart put it back on its feet . When I said Jon Cook saved the club I was thinking of the effort he put in to gather support from the local council, local MP, and other sources when closure looked on the cards last season. To give Cook his due, he resigned his position on the MC to focus on keeping the place from closure, and as he now admitted in Speedwáy Star the off track matters caused him to take his eye off the ball as far as team performances were concerned. That is probably why he will be TM himself next year with support from Kelvin Tatum.

As far as I know the threat of closure still hangs in the air but there is now some breathing space compared to a year ago. Efforts to find a new site are continuing. Stuart has been straight with the fans from day one in that he wants the club to balance the books as far as possible rather than him simply being a benefactor that picks up the bills come what may.

 

If you want people to part with their hard earned money there are lots of things you need to do, like sticking to the rules and running a slick presentation , but they frequently don't happen in Speedwáy. If they were to concentrate on getting those things right the crowds would be healthier and what someone says or doesn't say in an interview pales into insignificance by comparison.

Depends how familiar with speedway said person is. If they only been a few times they won't be very aware of all the rule politics but maybe came across that article.

Still silly comments by Cook that don't help anyone.

[liam]

No Lakeside supporter will stop going to watch them because of this, nobody will even care.

[Trees]

No Lakeside supporter will stop going to watch them because of this, nobody will even care.

Bloody good job!!!! They can do without losing a single fan from what I've seen this year!!!

[LisaColette]

No Lakeside supporter will stop going to watch them because of this, nobody will even care

Lakeside fans can defend him as much as they like, still silly comments and not even neccessary! Best to keep his thoughts to himself in future!!

[BWitcher]

No Lakeside supporter will stop going to watch them because of this, nobody will even care.

 

Completely ignorant, head in the sand comment that you can't prove in anyway.

 

A business calls its customer idiots.. its almost certain it will lose some customers.

 

There's a precedent for this sort of thing, as Wolfsbane can attest too.

[Fourentee]

I won't be joining the howl of outrage over SCB's use of what I consider to be an obnoxious term of abuse. I won't be joining the demands for a 'holiday'. I understand (but disagree with) the reason he put forward for his original choice of title thread. Take a read through his output down the years and it is surely clear that he loves the sport and has strong views on it. And I defend his right to free speech.

That being so, I trust he and others may appreciate the genuine pain caused by his choice of language. As the adoptive father of a blind 23-year-old with Downs Syndrome, I take the greatest exception to the term under discussion. I am not looking for pity or sympathy -- my son enjoys a happy and fulfilling life, has a work placement on a farm, is learning the piano, attends drama and dance sessions and plays a lot of organised sport.

But what I will say is that when out with him in public I watch like the proverbial hawk how other people interact with him. The vast majority are fine and a pleasure to meet. Society has, in my opinion, moved on hugely in its attitude to the disabled. But rudeness and slights will be challenged by me on his behalf because he cannot do so himself.

I don't want to be po-faced, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou or take some kind of facile moral high ground. But I should be failing my son were I not to take issue with the gratuitous use of the term as an insult. And failing my son is something I try to avoid.

[Daytripper]

Bloody good job!!!! They can do without losing a single fan from what I've seen this year!!!

 

 

Lakeside attendances plummeted last season mainly due to the disastrous way the EDR system was administered, the way the picks were set up and the massive difference in ability between the top and bottom EDR riders. Garrity and Newman were far above most other EDR riders in terms of ability and were virtually unchallenged in protected heats. Lakesides 1-5 were consistently outscoring the visiting 1-5 in every home match except one and losing half their home matches at reserve.. It nearly broke the business and I am amazed that the club survived financially.

 

But when Lakeside were doing so badly did we hear from all the posters from Coventry and elsewhere that are now bleating about the pick or the draft. Did they say poor old Lakeside Nope. They were too busy crowing about how well their respective teams were doing riding high in the league. Its only now that some of them realise they might not get the heat-leaders or EDR riders they wanted that the system is suddenly wrong.

I won't be joining the howl of outrage over SCB's use of what I consider to be an obnoxious term of abuse. I won't be joining the demands for a 'holiday'. I understand (but disagree with) the reason he put forward for his original choice of title thread. Take a read through his output down the years and it is surely clear that he loves the sport and has strong views on it. And I defend his right to free speech.

That being so, I trust he and others may appreciate the genuine pain caused by his choice of language. As the adoptive father of a blind 23-year-old with Downs Syndrome, I take the greatest exception to the term under discussion. I am not looking for pity or sympathy -- my son enjoys a happy and fulfilling life, has a work placement on a farm, is learning the piano, attends drama and dance sessions and plays a lot of organised sport.

But what I will say is that when out with him in public I watch like the proverbial hawk how other people interact with him. The vast majority are fine and a pleasure to meet. Society has, in my opinion, moved on hugely in its attitude to the disabled. But rudeness and slights will be challenged by me on his behalf because he cannot do so himself.

I don't want to be po-faced, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou or take some kind of facile moral high ground. But I should be failing my son were I not to take issue with the gratuitous use of the term as an insult. And failing my son is something I try to avoid.

 

 

Well said. a sensible and measured post. I have had some experience of a family member with mental illness myself. I wasn't going to comment because I knew the howls of abuse it would attract from the mob but in view of that comment I will. Raising an argument in measured sensible and adult terms is fair enough but SCB's intemperate, and abusive outburst really was beyond the pale. Churlish, childish and boorish.

[E I Addio]

 

Completely ignorant, head in the sand comment that you can't prove in anyway.

 

A business calls its customer idiots.. its almost certain it will lose some customers.

 

There's a precedent for this sort of thing, as Wolfsbane can attest too.

 

 

Its not ignorant, just a statement of fact. The subject has not even been mentioned on the Lakeside forum which suggests nobody is all that bothered , rightly or wrongly. As has already been said, those protesting now had precious little to say when Lakeside were struggling under the EDR scheme last year when the team were having to put out NL riders and PL reserves while the likes of Newman and Garrity were getting double figures so the howls of protest have a hollow ring to them now. I think the Lakeside fans have had more than enough other things to worry about this year.

 

Cook was right. Some people are thick and this forum has for years attested to the fact that many more are biased. It wasn't a good idea to let that comment come out in print, and it would probably have been better unsaid, but that doesn't make it any less true. The genie is out of the bottle now and all the huffing and puffing wont put it back It will blow over when the season starts.

[Trees]

One definition of "retarded" is foolish or stupid so in SCB's case calling JC a "retard" could just have meant a stupid or foolish person ...... not that SCB needs anyone sticking up for him, he deserves a good old thwarting at times with some of the stuff he says. On the other hand he can be one of the most clever, informative and on-the-ball posters on here.....

[BWitcher]

 

 

Its not ignorant, just a statement of fact. The subject has not even been mentioned on the Lakeside forum which suggests nobody is all that bothered , rightly or wrongly. As has already been said, those protesting now had precious little to say when Lakeside were struggling under the EDR scheme last year when the team were having to put out NL riders and PL reserves while the likes of Newman and Garrity were getting double figures so the howls of protest have a hollow ring to them now. I think the Lakeside fans have had more than enough other things to worry about this year.

 

Cook was right. Some people are thick and this forum has for years attested to the fact that many more are biased. It wasn't a good idea to let that comment come out in print, and it would probably have been better unsaid, but that doesn't make it any less true. The genie is out of the bottle now and all the huffing and puffing wont put it back It will blow over when the season starts.

 

No it isn't a 'statement of fact' at all.

 

The Lakeside forum has nothing to do with it, or are you suggesting that every Lakeside fan is on their forum?

 

Additionally, most folk aren't drama queens, they don't log onto a forum to announce they aren't going to go anymore.. they simply stop going.

 

Besides, the potential damage isn't just at Lakeside, its across the sport as a whole

 

Cook was right, the majority of speedway fans are thick and biased.. however, he directed his comments at those fans with the ability to think for themselves.. of which there are an ever dwindling number left following the sport. The promoters don't like such fans.

 

Just as when CVS abused some of his fans, they were some of the most intelligent fans that followed Wolves speedway. Net result is they are lost to the spo

Edited December 21, 2015 by BWitcher

[Daytripper]

One definition of "retarded" is foolish or stupid so in SCB's case calling JC a "retard" could just have meant a stupid or foolish person ...... not that SCB needs anyone sticking up for him, he deserves a good old thwarting at times with some of the stuff he says. On the other hand he can be one of the most clever, informative and on-the-ball posters on here.....

 

 

I have nothing more to add. The dictionary definition has been posted earlier on the thread. I have no doubt he was just using the most offensive term of abuse he could think of at the time. It was childish and in poor taste. That's all I wish to say on this thread.

[Fourentee]

One definition of "retarded" is foolish or stupid so in SCB's case calling JC a "retard" could just have meant a stupid or foolish

 

I think you'll find SCB has indicated that he deliberately used the title he did in order to attract attention to the thread. I find it highly unlikely, to put it at its mildest, that he would have chosen the term in ignorance of the pejorative use it attracts.

 

Edited for spelling.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Fourentee

[waiheke1]

 

I have nothing more to add. The dictionary definition has been posted earlier on the thread. I have no doubt he was just using the most offensive term of abuse he could think of at the time. It was childish and in poor taste. That's all I wish to say on this thread.

I have a friend, who has a son with asperges, who shares your view on use of that word, so certainly sympathies with your pov. I would disagree that SCB was using the most offensive term he could think of (I'm sure his vocabulary is quite wide), and I think equally obvious that SCB meant no offense to people such as your son (SCB is happily offensive to people from all walks of life without discrimination)!

So while the term uses was done so deliberately to attract attention, the meaning was clearly as a synonym for "thick/stupid" and nothing to do with disability.

Maybe I'm thick, but I've worked in business for a number of years, and yet to see anyone suggest that publicly insulting our customers to cover our own inadequacies is a sound strategic move. So personally I think SCB was spot on with the thread and have no issues with the title, but can sympathies with those who object to the word choice.

[liam]

Iam not defending Cook at all what he said was stupid and not called for but it won't stop people going, everyone can keep banging on about it all they like on this forum, you can say I have my head in the sand all you like but it's the truth. I'll bet my life's savings come the first meeting of the season the crowd will be good. I think most people have more important things to worry about in life than taking offence to something a speedway promoter said, but by all means carry on going on about him.

 

Completely ignorant, head in the sand comment that you can't prove in anyway.

 

A business calls its customer idiots.. its almost certain it will lose some customers.

 

There's a precedent for this sort of thing, as Wolfsbane can attest too.

Not ignorant at all just don't take offence to what a speedway promoter says who doesn't know a single thing about me. No need to say what he did but is it the end of world, no. Enjoy your Christmas. Edited December 21, 2015 by liam

[SPEEDY69]

I really don't get why Jon Cook is receiving such abuse on here. I always like to see the good in people and don't have him down as a nasty person - it's always easy to mis-interpret written comms because you don't get the intonation or the wink and smile at the end for example. I take no offence from his attributed comments, my issue was with who had decided on the H/L list and he explained that it was agreed by consensus across all promoters - therefore I have no issue with it, so what if so and so is on there but this guy isn't? The decision has been made. Accusations of favourtism to one club or another are answered by his explanation and if people cannot understand that then.........