Guest Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 I'm glad another historical error has been corrected- evidently in this case the incorrect report of the Speedway Star in September 1957. Also two other sources." World Speedway Final- A history from 1929" by Maurice Jones (pub. 1979) and "A History of the World Speedway Championship" by Robert Bamford and Glynn Shailes (pub. 2002).All of these publications list Crutcher and Biggs as the non-riding reserves with no mention of Westerburg. The latter two books I find particularly reliable. The question now becomes who discovered the situation re Rolf Westerburg that occurred in 1957 and was being repeated in reference publications(see second book mentioned) as late as 2002. If true it that means the incorrect answer has been floating around for at least 45 years. So what has changed since then. BTW what is the official source that counts RW as a non riding reserve, was Crutcher injured on that day and didn't show up and what was RW even doing at Wembley that night. Crutcher was listed as first reserve, Biggs as second reserve so I reckon then with Crutcher injured Biggs would become 1st reserve and in theory whoever finished just behind Biggs in the qualifiers should become second reserve. The mystery deepens it seems to me!! Out of interest, who wrote the 1957 match report for 'Speedway Star'? And whoever was editor at that time deserves to have his rrrsss kicked IMO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted December 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 I just realised my post repeats a lot of what Norbold said earlier-would note though that the Speedway Star had Crutcher as first reserve and Biggs as second. BTW does anybody know who the third non qualifier in the qual. rounds who theoretically should have moved up to reserve. Also what is the original source that mentions Westerburg as a reserve (can't find any mention of it anywhere else)and does anybody know anything about RW's career. I think the editor of Speedway Star in 1957 may well have been our friend and fellow poster gustix!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Again norbold...a perpetuating error - one that I and many others adhere. 'Australian legend' Ron Johnson. Not so really according to wikipedia and other sources - "...Ron Johnson (24 February 1907 born Duntocher, Scotland[..." Surely you are splitting hairs?Just like using Jason Crump(06 August 1975 born Bristol,England) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 I just realised my post repeats a lot of what Norbold said earlier-would note though that the Speedway Star had Crutcher as first reserve and Biggs as second. BTW does anybody know who the third non qualifier in the qual. rounds who theoretically should have moved up to reserve. Also what is the original source that mentions Westerburg as a reserve (can't find any mention of it anywhere else)and does anybody know anything about RW's career. I think there should be some mention of Norway's Rolf Westerburg on the world news page of that time in Speedway Star. But basically I think he was a long track rider who dabbled mainly in Scandinavian speedway? The big Norwegian stars at that time were Basse Hveem and Henry Andersen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Again norbold...a perpetuating error - one that I and many others adhere. 'Australian legend' Ron Johnson. Not so really according to wikipedia and other sources - "...Ron Johnson (24 February 1907 born Duntocher, Scotland[..."Or Ronnie Moore being a New Zealander. He was, of course, born in Tasmania. The mystery deepens it seems to me!!Here's something else to add to the mystery. I have a filled in 1957 World Championship Final programme. It seems to be a meticulously filled in programme and leaves Brian Crutcher as first reserve. No mention of Westerburg. I think there should be some mention of Norway's Rolf Westerburg on the world news page of that time in Speedway Star. But basically I think he was a long track rider who dabbled mainly in Scandinavian speedway? The big Norwegian stars at that time were Basse Hveem and Henry Andersen.And Aage Hansen, who was in fact the only Norwegian to ride in the 1957 final. Edited December 17, 2015 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Most puzzling. All the printed sources I could find (Astorias 1958, Loaders, Dobruszek, and those already cited) show Crutcher. S Star 28 Sept 1957 actually has the following on the back page: World Final Gossip by John Hyam (!!) "Bearded Brian Crutcher, although only first reserve and not called upon to race, took a very keen interest in the racing. When Barry Briggs headed Ove Fundin in the run-off for the title, Brian was amongst the first to congratulate the New Zealander." Crutcher rode twice in the days preceding the final without suggestion of any fall or injury. Online: http://www.historyspeedway.nstrefa.pl/indms.php has Westerberg http://www.speedway.org/history/57.htm#1957 is silent but strangest of all wikipedia has Westerberg but cites Bamford and Shailes (who have Crutcher) as its source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_Individual_Speedway_World_Championship In 1957 Ove Fundin (reigning champ) was seeded to the final and 5 riders qualified from each of three 'semi-finals'. Olle Nygren was absent so 6th place (in the European Final) Dan Forsberg took his place, promoting 7th place Westerberg to the reserve position. Westerberg's career highlights include twice runner-up in the Norwegian Championship, and a little bit of history, he was a participant in the first ever World Team Cup meeting (the 1960 Nordic Final at Odense) And Like Norbs I have a fully completed programme with no mention of Westerberg. Edited December 17, 2015 by arnieg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Most puzzling. All the printed sources I could find (Astorias 1958, Loaders, Dobruszek, and those already cited) show Crutcher. S Star 28 Sept 1957 actually has the following on the back page: World Final Gossip by John Hyam (!!) "Bearded Brian Crutcher, although only first reserve and not called upon to race, took a very keen interest in the racing. When Barry Briggs headed Ove Fundin in the run-off for the title, Brian was amongst the first to congratulate the New Zealander." Crutcher rode twice in the days preceding the final without suggestion of any fall or injury. Online: http://www.historyspeedway.nstrefa.pl/indms.php has Westerberg http://www.speedway.org/history/57.htm#1957 is silent but strangest of all wikipedia has Westerberg but cites Bamford and Shailes (who have Crutcher) as its source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1957_Individual_Speedway_World_Championship In 1957 Ove Fundin (reigning champ) was seeded to the final and 5 riders qualified from each of three 'semi-finals'. Olle Nygren was absent so 6th place (in the European Final) Dan Forsberg took his place, promoting 7th place Westerberg to the reserve position. Westerberg's career highlights include twice runner-up in the Norwegian Championship, and a little bit of history, he was a participant in the first ever World Team Cup meeting (the 1960 Nordic Final at Odense) And Like Norbs I have a fully completed programme with no mention of Westerberg. Then it would appear that Brian Crutcher was at Wembley as a reserve rider for the 1957 world final and not Westerberg. I would like to know more about the meeting report in the Speedway Star, who wrote it, and what details there are in regard to the points scorers table for the meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Then it would appear that Brian Crutcher was at Wembley as a reserve rider for the 1957 world final and not Westerberg. I would like to know more about the meeting report in the Speedway Star, who wrote it, and what details there are in regard to the points scorers table for the meeting. The mystery deepens. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 This is the 1957 World Championship points scorers as on the respected Speedway Researcher website. It names Brian Crutcher and Jack Biggs as the reserves. No mention of Rolf Westerberg. http://www.speedwayresearcher.org.uk/docs/wembley/1957.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Are there any photos existing showing either Crutcher or Westerberg at the 57 final? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Are there any photos existing showing either Crutcher or Westerberg at the 57 final?The Star includes a photo of the other reserve Jack Biggs, but no sign of Crutcher or Westerberg. So the big question now is what is the earliest source to mention Westerberg as reserve? Edited December 17, 2015 by arnieg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) I decided a bit of lateral thinking was called for...... Quote from the 1958 World Final programme. "Brian Crutcher.....Reserve at Wembley 12 months ago, it's a big disappointment for Crutcher fans to see him occupying a similar position this time." Quote from the 1959 programme: "Brian Crutcher.....Made only the Reserve berths for the last two Finals and was thought not to be the man for the big occasion...." Edited December 17, 2015 by norbold 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Seems conclusive,but a photo or film showing one or the other in leathers is needed,i think Normally always have a photo of the full line-up.At least nowadays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 There is some film of the 1957 final on YouTube but it's not very good and doesn't show the line up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) There is some film of the 1957 final on YouTube but it's not very good and doesn't show the line up. Yes that clip is poor and not complete. This version of the movietone footage shows the riders going on parade at the start http://www.aparchive.com/metadata/youtube/58b9d0459d4646598a832bcafc0b4c96 I am not that adept at spotting the riders themselves; but a 'body colour count' would tend to show just one Norwegian (Aage Hansen) and I think SEVEN Union Jacks. One of which must be Crutcher ... ? Edited December 17, 2015 by Grand Central 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 So now it looks as if the question is how did Westerberg get introduced into the debate? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reviresco Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 It's only Wiki, but the page for Brian Crutcher does not note him as a Reserve for the 1957 World Individual Final, whereas it does for 1958: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Crutcher A reference is shown as Tom Wareham's authorised biography. Maybe somebody has this, or can purchase it: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brian-Crutcher-The-Authorised-Biography/dp/0752445839 Or, alternatively, ask the man himself? My money, if I had any, is on Westerberg as the other non-riding Reserve as per the Speedway GB web-site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 I have an opinion in regard to the 1957 World Final reserves. Jack Biggs and Brian Crutcher were the two reserve riders for the actual World Final meeting. The European qualifiers came through from their own stages of the championship. Rolf Westerberg was probably the next highest points scorer from this stage. Had one of the European qualifiers been unable to compete PRIOR to the final, his place would then have been taken by Westerberg. The Europeans did not take a reserve rider to the actual World Final. However, should one of the European qualifiers been injured during the final and unable to continue, one of the meeting reserves - Biggs or Crutcher - would have replaced him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted December 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 I reckon we have to stay with the multiple sources that list Crutcher and Biggs as reserves and give Westerberg the boot off the website as a 1957 reserve. What was the source that provided his name to the Speedway website in the first place anyway? I think gustix in his last post today hits the nail on the head and thus we have to vote Westerberg off the island Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 I have an opinion in regard to the 1957 World Final reserves. Jack Biggs and Brian Crutcher were the two reserve riders for the actual World Final meeting. The European qualifiers came through from their own stages of the championship. Rolf Westerberg was probably the next highest points scorer from this stage. Had one of the European qualifiers been unable to compete PRIOR to the final, his place would then have been taken by Westerberg. The Europeans did not take a reserve rider to the actual World Final. However, should one of the European qualifiers been injured during the final and unable to continue, one of the meeting reserves - Biggs or Crutcher - would have replaced him. I know I don't say this often,but that makes sense John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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