Bruce Penhall

[lucifer sam]

My top ten would vary day-to-day.

 

Today I'm going for:

 

1. Ove Fundin

2. Ivan Mauger

3. Hans Nielsen

4. Bruce Penhall

5. Erik Gundersen

6. Tony Rickardsson

7. Peter Craven

8. Barry Briggs

9. Ronnie Moore

10. Vic Duggan

 

Next in line... Jack Young, Ole Olsen, Jason Crump, Nicki Pedersen, Bluey Wilkinson, Bjorn Knutson, Peter Collins, Anders Michanek, Jan O Pedersen, Jack Parker, Greg Hancock, Sam Ermolenko, Per Jonsson, Graham Warren and Tai Woffinden. I've probably left someone out.

 

All the best

Rob

[iris123]

My top ten would vary day-to-day.

 

Today I'm going for:

 

1. Ove Fundin

2. Ivan Mauger

3. Hans Nielsen

4. Bruce Penhall

5. Erik Gundersen

6. Tony Rickardsson

7. Peter Craven

8. Barry Briggs

9. Ronnie Moore

10. Vic Duggan

 

Next in line... Jack Young, Ole Olsen, Jason Crump, Nicki Pedersen, Bluey Wilkinson, Bjorn Knutson, Peter Collins, Anders Michanek, Jan O Pedersen, Jack Parker, Greg Hancock, Sam Ermolenko, Per Jonsson, Graham Warren and Tai Woffinden. I've probably left someone out.

 

All the best

Rob

I'm sure if Tom Farndon gave one he would be devestated

[BWitcher]

Mmmmmmmmmmm - interesting fact.

 

Look who is at number Twenty Two. It seems Jerzy Szczakiel was a more popular and more respected Rider than some on here give him credit.

 

EDIT: I do accept, however, that the year the Survey was taken is also relevant. Obviously current Riders at that time would be more in the minds eye than those like say Vic Duggan who were part of the Sport's History even then.

 

Spot on WK, the list has to be taken with somewhat of a pinch of salt and is far from an accurate representation.

 

BUT, it does immediately silence Sidneys claims of 'ask anyone' and Ermolenko wouldn't be top 50.. and as you point out it shows that Szczakiel is rated higher by a few more people than some might think.

 

The thread may have moved away from Bruce somewhat but there's been some interesting stuff discussed. You can't beat reminiscing about great riders!

[lucifer sam]

I'm sure if Tom Farndon gave one he would be devastated

 

Maybe I should have included 5 pre-war riders instead of just the two (Wilkinson and Parker). Yeah, OK then, add three more riders to next in line: Vic Huxley, Jack Milne and Tom Farndon.

 

All the best

Rob

[martinmauger]

The mindset Mauger had, I think he would have won even more titles in the GP system. He left nothing to chance. A great insight to this was in a chapter of his biography, think the very first one.

I have to agree but I'm trying not to be biased. Mauger was 'ridiculously' good in the late 1960's & 1970's and would probably done even better under the GP system....

[stratton]

I'm sure if Tom Farndon gave one he would be devestated

I was answering one of your posts,which aren't simple to decipher,but I thought you was saying when you first saw Sam he wasn't very good.I said when I first saw Bruce(and I reckon the person who started this thread is regretting it....)he also wasn't very good,but look what happened.So you should have kept your word and stopped posting

Are you sure the first time i see Bruce he was very good he scored 7plus 2 from the very hard no 2 birth he was highly rated and fair play to Dan Mcormack he rated him bigtime but it was no surprise though Ivan!Briggo,all knew how good Penhall might become.

Sam Ermolenko always seems to get under-rated. Not quite sure why. Do people remember the fading rider of 1997-2005, rather the superstar of 1985 to 1996?

 

He was the nearest challenger to threatening the Danish domination of the late 80s, and remarkably a serious injury only seemed to spur him on even more. There's no doubt he was the best rider in the world in 1993. Yes, he had a bit of luck on the day, when Frank Ebdon bizarrely didn't spot he shed a chain at the start of the re-run in Heat 15 and gave him another go in the re-re-run. But you often needed a little bit of luck to win a one-off World Final.

 

To me, where Sam proved himself a deserving winner was the World Team Cup Final a couple of weeks later, when he beat Hans Nielsen in a last-heat decider at Coventry.

 

Sam was a fully deserving World Champ. In the ranks of recent one-time winners from around that era, I'd rate him just slightly behind Jan O Pedersen, about level with Per Jonsson, but ahead of Gary Havelock, Billy Hamill and Mark Loram.

 

And Shawn Moran? Come on Sid, there's no comparison there. Moran was ridiculously talented, but Sam Ermolenko was the biggest achiever of the two, without doubt.

 

All the best

Rob

Moran he should of won a title out of all the Americans Autrey as well was good anough in 78/79 Ermolenko he over achieved bigtime fair play to him.As for the Denmark domination they were very LUCKY. NO Penhall, no Lee,no Carter,No SIgalos, no Sanders it played out really well for Hans/Erik both i may add were great riders though. Edited December 18, 2015 by sidney

[iris123]

Are you sure the first time i see Bruce he was very good he scored 7plus 2 from the very hard no 2 birth he was highly rated and fair play to Dan Mcormack he rated him bigtime but it was no surprise though Ivan!Briggo,all knew how good Penhall might become.

Moran he should of won a title out of all the Americans Autrey as well was good anough in 78/79 Ermolenko he over achieved bigtime fair play to him.As for the Denmark domination they were very LUCKY. NO Penhall, no Lee,no Carter,No SIgalos, no Sanders it played out really well for Hans/Erik both i may add were great riders though.

Yes i am sure sid.He only managed to beat the great Keith White and Mike Bast.Honest he did

[stratton]

Yes i am sure sid.He only managed to beat the great Keith White and Mike Bast.Honest he did

At White city sure i was there in 77, after that a different animal what was interesting Bast who was class was promised proper track time with Penhall before that meeting second halves after match rides he never got it. Edited December 18, 2015 by sidney

[BWitcher]

Are you sure the first time i see Bruce he was very good he scored 7plus 2 from the very hard no 2 birth he was highly rated and fair play to Dan Mcormack he rated him bigtime but it was no surprise though Ivan!Briggo,all knew how good Penhall might become.

Moran he should of won a title out of all the Americans Autrey as well was good anough in 78/79 Ermolenko he over achieved bigtime fair play to him.As for the Denmark domination they were very LUCKY. NO Penhall, no Lee,no Carter,No SIgalos, no Sanders it played out really well for Hans/Erik both i may add were great riders though.

 

It might have helped if Moran had reached World Finals to be able to win a title.. he only made it 3 times. Why? He wasn't good enough. It doesn't matter how you twist it, over a prolonged period of time Moran was not up to it even though he raced in what you call a 'weak era'.

[iris123]

At White city sure i was there in 77, after that a different animal what was interesting Bast who was class was promised proper track time with Penhall before that meeting second halves after match rides he never got it.

And after being a wobbler at first Sam Ermolenko became a world champ,so I am not sure what your point was saying he was a wobbler at first

[BWitcher]

And after being a wobbler at first Sam Ermolenko became a world champ,so I am not sure what your point was saying he was a wobbler at first

 

Let's not forget, Sam didn't even take up speedway till his 20's, within just over 3 years of first ever having a go on a speedway bike he was in a run-off for the World Title.. you don't do that without 'natural talent'.

Edited December 18, 2015 by BWitcher

[iris123]

 

Let's not forget, Sam didn't even take up speedway till his 20's, within just over 3 years of first ever having a go on a speedway bike he was in a run for the World Title.. you don't do that without 'natural talent'.

Yes,but some people back them were in teams within weeks of taking up the sport.It was easy back then

[stratton]

Come on, be fair, give him time to get training.

For what? i am sure i can hold my own NOW you Witcher are beginning to piss me off bigtime rubbish Stirrer or what why don't you pop out of the closet and bring your bum bandit the doctor with you.??

[BWitcher]

Yes,but some people back them were in teams within weeks of taking up the sport.It was easy back then

 

Very true

 

Although that was the bottom end of the teams. Whatever era, the top end always has class riders.

[iris123]

For what? i am sure i can hold my own NOW you Witcher are beginning to piss me off bigtime rubbish Stirrer or what why don't you pop out of the closet and bring your bum bandit the doctor with you.??

Calm down,calm down,calm down lad.You can't say things like that nowadays!!!!!

[BWitcher]

For what? i am sure i can hold my own NOW you Witcher are beginning to piss me off bigtime rubbish Stirrer or what why don't you pop out of the closet and bring your bum bandit the doctor with you.??

 

Sidney, why do you always try to ruin interesting threads?

 

There has been a lot of sensible, civil discussion on this thread where a few of us have learned new things. I researched and learned more about Scott Autrey and admitted my initial opinion about him was incorrect, I did so because others advised me as such on here. I was WRONG about him.. see it's easy to admit that.

 

Unfortunately, despite being shown you are completely wrong about Moran (no shame in that) you decide to go into rant mode, start making threats etc. There's no need, you love your speedway, so do the rest of us.. we all have certain memories of certain riders that influence who we think were better BUT what we have to do is sit back and actually look at the cold hard evidence, like I did with Autrey and accept our memories can play tricks.

 

Now have a sit down, read back through the thread at the difference between the two and you'll see why Ermolenko was the better rider.

 

Less ranting, more discussion Sid, you'll enjoy it more

Edited December 18, 2015 by BWitcher

[stratton]

And after being a wobbler at first Sam Ermolenko became a world champ,so I am not sure what your point was saying he was a wobbler at first

He won his title in a poor era,and dress it up as much as you like he averaged 4.25 is that right ?Per Jonsson had to beg to get a work permit fair play to Bob Radford for that though.

[BWitcher]

He won his title in a poor era,and dress it up as much as you like he averaged 4.25 is that right ?Per Jonsson had to beg to get a work permit fair play to Bob Radford for that though.

 

He averaged 4.25 in 4 meetings, 12 months after first ever getting on a bike.

 

More than Michael Lee managed to average from 5 meetings in 1991 in what you call a 'poor era'.

Edited December 18, 2015 by BWitcher

[iris123]

He won his title in a poor era,and dress it up as much as you like he averaged 4.25 is that right ?Per Jonsson had to beg to get a work permit fair play to Bob Radford for that though.

It doesn't matter what he averaged at first Sid.Some hit the ground running and others take time.I think it took Simmo quite a while before he got a good average.he steadily improved rather than burst onto the scene like Lee or Collins.Even one of my all time favourite riders,Tommy Jansson got quite a low average in his first season for Wembley.Not looked it up but I think it was under 3.......

[stratton]

Sidney, why do you always try to ruin interesting threads?

 

There has been a lot of sensible, civil discussion on this thread where a few of us have learned new things. I researched and learned more about Scott Autrey and admitted my initial opinion about him was incorrect, I did so because others advised me as such on here. I was WRONG about him.. see it's easy to admit that.

 

Unfortunately, despite being shown you are completely wrong about Moran (no shame in that) you decide to go into rant mode, start making threats etc. There's no need, you love your speedway, so do the rest of us.. we all have certain memories of certain riders that influence who we think were better BUT what we have to do is sit back and actually look at the cold hard evidence, like I did with Autrey and accept our memories can play tricks.

 

Now have a sit down, read back through the thread at the difference between the two and you'll see why Ermolenko was the better rider.

 

Less ranting, more discussion Sid, you'll enjoy it more

My god you NEVER admit you wrong,but i am happy you did say Lee had achieved more than your sudden Sam FAIR PLAY thanks for that as BLAKEY would say that has made my day that has!!