Terry Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Well done Terry i have Penhall,Autrey, Sigalos S.Moran,Hancock all in front of Ermolenko. It's all about opinions Sidney. I don't think anyone would have the same order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) in fairness, you can only beat whats put in front of you at the time.im one that prefer the one offs, but those who like the gp"s, its totally different from the introduction now. started with 6 rounds, which gave you healing time from an injury, today, you have 12 rounds, so you dont need getting injured at the wrong time. you also had years when you got eliminated after 2 poor rides, so its changed all the time, but as a traditional one off, easily my best option. turn up all level on the night, cant beat it imo With the state of some of the racing in the GP rounds, i think the one off's are a good consideration. With the qualifiers then the one off final. Although if we did go back to that you can gurrantee this country wouldn't get a look in. Where would the finals be held ? Predominatly Poland. Edited December 17, 2015 by Starman2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 mauger/ricko would have split opinion as well..until woffy gets 7 that is!! With the state of some of the racing in the GP rounds, i think the one off's are a good consideration. With the qualifiers then the one off final. Although if we did go back to that you can gurrantee this country wouldn't get a look in. Where would the finals be held ? Predominatly Poland.if the rounds were done fairly, im sure it would be great viewing away from the closed shop riders..its becoming so repetitive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 mauger/ricko would have split opinion as well..until woffy gets 7 that is!! Who's the better rider Mauger or Trick ? I would say Trick. But some might argue you cannot compare different generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) mauger/ricko would have split opinion as well..until woffy gets 7 that is!! Mauger and Ricko is totally down to opinion. They rode in different eras and had similar levels of success. Ermolenko and Moran is not opinion. They rode in the same era and Ermolenko was better in every conceivable category you can name. Edited December 17, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 fantasy land here, as it wont ever happen, but I think a one off final at Cardiff would certainly up the attendance, but as you say,reckon Poland would get it under the present day organisers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 It's all about opinions Sidney. I don't think anyone would have the same order.No Sam would not be in a top four ? a poor style all over the place out of control never a stylist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Mauger and Ricko is totally down to opinion. They rode in different eras and had similar levels of success. Ermolenko and Moran is not opinion. They rode in the same era and Ermolenko was better in every conceivable category you can name. my opinion, I didn't rate either ermolenko or moran as highly as others do, but of the 2, I would say ermolenko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Mauger and Ricko is totally down to opinion. They rode in different eras and had similar levels of success. Ermolenko and Moran is not opinion. They rode in the same era and Ermolenko was better in every conceivable category you can name. In your sad bias World maybe.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 my opinion, I didn't rate either ermolenko or moran as highly as others do, but of the 2, I would say ermolenko. As said, there is no opinion involved when you have two riders who you can compare head to head over a period of time. There isn't anything anyone can point towards to say Moran was better.. nothing at all... other than Sidney's.. "he had a better style".. you don't score pts for style, its not ski jumping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 I guess you do have to judge on records. a better rider can often lose, but the record books only shows the winners..hence the debacle over the play offs!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 As said, there is no opinion involved when you have two riders who you can compare head to head over a period of time. There isn't anything anyone can point towards to say Moran was better.. nothing at all... other than Sidney's.. "he had a better style".. you don't score pts for style, its not ski jumping.NO FACTS Witcher just our Opinions , i am happy with mine i can remember Ermolenko at the Abbey in 83 what a wobbler totally out of control Mike the bike did look for him though !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 NO FACTS Witcher just our Opinions , i am happy with mine i can remember Ermolenko at the Abbey in 83 what a wobbler totally out of control Mike the bike did look for him though !! Wow, and within 2 years he was in a run off for the World Title. What an amazing rider he must have been to improve so much, so fast! With only one season of racing in Europe too. As said, your opinions are utterly irrelevant when comparing two riders from the same era. The 'FACT' is Sidney, apart from your continued quoting of 1983 you have not and cannot come up with a single reason to back up your 'opinion' that Moran was better... simply because he wasn't. I'll leave you to continue trolling now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 before we had speedway through our screens I guess our only opinions are what you saw on your own home tracks. hence, to me Mauger round Foxhall was mediocre at best, where as Olsen was awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 before we had speedway through our screens I guess our only opinions are what you saw on your own home tracks. hence, to me Mauger round Foxhall was mediocre at best, where as Olsen was awesome. I totally agree. However, it is now very easy to check who was better in particular eras.. I've provided all the evidence regarding Ermolenko and Moran, those with intelligence will understand it shows who is better... then there are those who are ignorant. I have learned something in this debate though and that is regarding Scott Autrey who I hadn't rated as highly. Having researched him I can see he had a spell of 3 years where he was riding at the very top of his game with one particular dominant year (79 of the top of my head?). Does this body of work put him above what Ermolenko achieved? I don't think so, but it certainly ranks him above Shawn Moran who before tonight, if asked I would have listed above Autrey, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) seen very little of scott autrey, from memory (may be wrong) think he rode for Exeter (?) but he don't stick in my head for being anything special, but good thing with you tube nowadays can re-live it Edited December 18, 2015 by ColinMills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think what made Scott Autrey so good was the fact he could ride any size track. He held the Exeter track record for many years and also Wimbledon where he won consecutive spring classics, with world final line ups. I would have him above Ermolenko simply because there were a better calibre of rider in those days. The same reason for Sigalos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 If I had to rank my best American Riders that I had seen I would go for (in order): i) Hancock ii) Penhall iii) Autrey For BW's benefit Ermolenko would be fourth. It's all about opinion though - and that is mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think what made Scott Autrey so good was the fact he could ride any size track. He held the Exeter track record for many years and also Wimbledon where he won consecutive spring classics, with world final line ups. I would have him above Ermolenko simply because there were a better calibre of rider in those days. The same reason for Sigalos. Was there really a 'better calibre' of rider? This has already been discussed in depth and waihekeaces has demonstrated that is somewhat of a myth. More teams = More Heat Leaders = Perception there were better calibre of riders. One thing that is for certain is the top riders had easier races, thus were seen to beaten less.. again, perception, better riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 18, 2015 Report Share Posted December 18, 2015 I totally get Hancocks record and why you rate him top, he just bores me!......I know its not constructive in any-way, and his record puts him in legendary status, but I don't recall feeling that way when he rode for Coventry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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