Endeavour Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 I don't think you can compare the two incidents. Jessup and Ross were still racing, whereas Penhall most definitely wasn't. Obviously it was suspicious, but you couldn't say for a 100% fact that they were cheating, unlike Bruce. Bruce's problem then was that he wasn't trying to hide the fact. He was being too open and honest. If it had been home riders. "Great team man. Taking one for the team etc etc 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Where have all the stars gone? We took them for granted back then, there were that many, and all we're left with are pretenders. think the strong list from the USA was the glamour time in speedway,when that disappeared, so did the crowds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 But speedway crowds were already in big decline by the 80 which was the era of the "glamor Americans." I have numerous programmes and Speedway stars from the era where declining crowds are alluded to, and the underlying causes are largely the same as today. I don't think you can correlate the decline of the yanks with decline of British speedway. The Americans were clearly the big crowd pullers of the era, loved the England v usa tests of that era though with the likes of penhall siglos and the moran up against kc mort pc Lee Jessup etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 think the strong list from the USA was the glamour time in speedway,when that disappeared, so did the crowds. True enough. Practically every American who came over here in the late seventies/early eighties was a star. Even Rick Miller, who wasn't a star made a world final. Hard to believe there hasn't been any great American riders since Hamill & Hancock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 But speedway crowds were already in big decline by the 80 which was the era of the "glamor Americans." I have numerous programmes and Speedway stars from the era where declining crowds are alluded to, and the underlying causes are largely the same as today. I don't think you can correlate the decline of the yanks with decline of British speedway. The Americans were clearly the big crowd pullers of the era, loved the England v usa tests of that era though with the likes of penhall siglos and the moran up against kc mort pc Lee Jessup etc agree, its was better before the 80s, but think the end of the usa era, was noticeable, when the decline came about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 True enough. Practically every American who came over here in the late seventies/early eighties was a star. Even Rick Miller, who wasn't a star made a world final. Kosta Lucero pfetzing ingels McConnell Christian?Tbh I wouldn't call Gresham or Faria stars either But I think to come to the UK from California, you had to be pretty good to justify sacrificing the Cali lifestyle. Plus they had to achieve a 6pt average to get a work visa. Most of the yanks rode Hyde Rd so well, I'm still annoyed that the two we signed were Kosta and ingels. agree, its was better before the 80s, but think the end of the usa era, was noticeable, when the decline came aboutSo many factors in the 80s though - loss of wembley and many other tracks, including iconic ones like hyde rd white city and the shay, premature loss of a range of genuine superstars etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endeavour Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Kosta Lucero pfetzing ingels McConnell Christian? Tbh I wouldn't call Gresham or Faria stars either But I think to come to the UK from California, you had to be pretty good to justify sacrificing the Cali lifestyle. Plus they had to achieve a 6pt average to get a work visa. Most of the yanks rode Hyde Rd so well, I'm still annoyed that the two we signed were Kosta and ingels. So many factors in the 80s though - loss of wembley and many other tracks, including iconic ones like hyde rd white city and the shay, premature loss of a range of genuine superstars etc. Also the change from one off world final with qualifying rounds to GPs as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Also the change from one off world final with qualifying rounds to GPs as well. nail on head!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Also the change from one off world final with qualifying rounds to GPs as well. I couldn't agree more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 absolutely convinced the one offs would get rid of the "closed shop" boredom of the gps. the cut off was just as interesting as the winners of the qualifyers, each round starting equal, all riders in final itself starting level....golden days!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Bruce's problem then was that he wasn't trying to hide the fact. He was being too open and honest. If it had been home riders. "Great team man. Taking one for the team etc etc As evidenced the previous year with Jessup and Ross. The crowd didn't raise a murmur to the orchestrated Heat 20 from 1981. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 absolutely convinced the one offs would get rid of the "closed shop" boredom of the gps.the cut off was just as interesting as the winners of the qualifyers, each round starting equal,all riders in final itself starting level....golden days!!The closed shop syndrome has always been there since the 90s,Myself WK and Parsloes all have said that the GP series was unfair but the chance of the Outsider winning has gone for me.Ok Tai people will knock me for it he was a 500/1 outsider he at that time was very lucky to be given that chance no different to Harris. I admire what he has done a GREAT Champion Tai and he will win other titles but as a 500/1 shot he was lucky to get his chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 The closed shop syndrome has always been there since the 90s,Myself WK and Parsloes all have said that the GP series was unfair but the chance of the Outsider winning has gone for me.Ok Tai people will knock me for it he was a 500/1 outsider he at that time was very lucky to be given that chance no different to Harris. I admire what he has done a GREAT Champion Tai and he will win other titles but as a 500/1 shot he was lucky to get his chance. So were many winners of the one off world finals a lot of the winners would never had made it if the system to get there if the system had been fair ...noting fair about having half field in the final who would never had got there . It's amazing how old fans someone reckon that the gp system is unfair but say nowt about the old system that was a joke . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) WATCH OUT SIDNEY, PENFOLD IS BACK, and his playing hes "old" card again, like you don't know any better Edited December 15, 2015 by ColinMills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Wrong. It took me about 30 years to see it, but once you've seen it you see it every time after that. What have you seen it on? I had it on betamax for many years. Couldn't see any contact. Watched it on Youtube. Couldn't see any contact. Then, one day, Steve Shovlar put DVD quality footage on here. Straight away you could see the contact. It was a real "Eureka" moment. Had I been in the bath I would have got out an run down the street. Penhall's wheel flicked out, bumped the left tip of Carter's handlebars. Carter jolted and fell off. Not seeing contact doesn't mean there wasn't contact. Once you see it you will know. There was contact. Nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise, because I saw it, and several others did too when that footage was posted. Agree 100%. The clip is from some sort of Midlands TV Sport Show. It was on YouTube, but I can't find it now. To me it is also clear that Penhall's wheel clips Kenny's handlebar and knocks him off. It's also pretty revealing in Penhall's interview immediately after the incident when he is perhaps a little more honest than he probably wanted to to be... https://youtu.be/nuF9BWpEDXo?t=57m10s If he didn't touch him, what DOES he mean when he says "I felt a little bit and it was him.." Anyway, can't believe we still discuss this 33 years on. Penhall was a tremendous rider. One of the greatest ever. He could do the lot. Professional, fast, he could gate and race with the best of them. In pure fantasyland, if there was a World Final with all the greats racing at their peak, I reckon he'd be right up there. Indeed from the last 30 years, I'd only have Rickardsson above him. Edited December 15, 2015 by falcace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) WATCH OUT SIDNEY, PENFOLD IS BACK, and his playing hes "old" card again, like you don't know any better Why not just stick to the subject matter for a change rather than act like a child ? the bottom line is no matter what age you are the old system was unfair Edited December 15, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Why not just stick to the subject matter for a change rather that act like a child ? the bottom line is no matter what age you are the old system was unfairpardon? I think you mouthing off to every older person who has differing opinions to you, "sticking to the subject".. until you can stop your insults, or admitting when you down right lie, you can do one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 So were many winners of the one off world finals a lot of the winners would never had made it if the system to get there if the system had been fair ...noting fair about having half field in the final who would never had got there . It's amazing how old fans someone reckon that the gp system is unfair but say nowt about the old system that was a joke . Tai when he was 500/1 was VERY Lucky he WAS lucky to be in it we all know he had ability but people moaned about Harris getting chances Tai at that time got his break.When his dad died he changed,he regrouped got fit and now he has everything great rider good with young people( they identify with it ) great with the public he deserves everything he has got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 pardon? I think you mouthing off to every older person who has differing opinions to you, "sticking to the subject".. until you can stop your insults, or admitting when you down right lie, you can do one! All i done of this subject is make a point about the old gp system being unfair ...the only one who has mouth off and made insults is you as you can't control your child like temper . Any how back to the subject matter . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) If he didn't touch him, what DOES he mean when he says "I felt a little bit and it was him.." As Carter falls off, he does brush against Penhall. But that's as he's already coming off. The previous contact is well, well before that. And the next contact is when an already falling Carter brushes into Penhall's back wheel. In no way does that cause Carter to call - he's already on his way down. As Briggo correctly calls (and he knows far more about speedway than either of us), Carter made a big error in giving Penhall the room on the inside. He tries to correct the situation too late, refuses to shut off, runs out of room and comes down, brushing into Penhall's back wheel on the way down. There is no contact from Penhall that causes Carter to fall. The mistake is Carter's. Barry Briggs: "(Carter) clips the back of Penhall's machine". All the best Rob Edited December 15, 2015 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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