Bruce Penhall

[nw42]

I've no problem with what Penhall said about Carter, I had no time for either of them back in the day, one was from the wrong side of the Pennines and the other was a showy Yank, neither were well received at Hyde Road around that time as I recall.

 

I think the reason for the harboured bad feeling towards Penhall is because it all just ended so abruptly, by the time of that White City meeting he had already started messing Cradley about. I was there that day and the way he trundled round pulling wheelies was an insult too far, it was good riddance from then on, I don't recall any farewell meetings being arranged, he was gone.

 

I suppose if he had carried on riding for a few more years he would possibly have redeemed himself in the eyes of most, but he didn't, so left us all with a sour taste. I'd go as far as to say he has gone a long way to redeeming himself in my eyes, just for having the balls to say in print how it is/was with Carter, good on you Bruce.

How about the time Ricko pulled up at Lynn, to allow a double to take place in the next heat?..blatant!!

 

There will be many examples Colin but at that time Penhall just played himself into the villain of the piece, he was pulling wheelies, have you seen the video? That was one of his final meetings in the UK and he left us all with bad impression, he should have just pulled on to the centre green but he decided to showboat.

[ColinMills]

I watched that 82 crash over many many times. certainly not a time id envy the referee job!....guess we all have different opinions.

personally think Penhall flicked his wheel out coming off the bend, but it don't appear to have hit him, at the time Carter went down, though left no room for Carter to go.

Would Carter of laid it down on purpose? not a chance in hell, especially after his mega serious fall at Ipswich, and was only recently

out of hospital. There was some dodgy racing on the lap leading up to the incident also.

[Terry]

I watched that 82 crash over many many times. certainly not a time id envy the referee job!....guess we all have different opinions.

personally think Penhall flicked his wheel out coming off the bend, but it don't appear to have hit him, at the time Carter went down, though left no room for Carter to go.

Would Carter of laid it down on purpose? not a chance in hell, especially after his mega serious fall at Ipswich, and was only recently

out of hospital. There was some dodgy racing on the lap leading up to the incident also.

 

There is a clip on youtube showing a different angle of the Penhall/Carter clash, (I think it's one of the CHiPs cameras) that clearly shows there was no contact.

[Wolfsbane]

Once a Spoon, always a Spoon. Cradley fans revered him, he responded by stabbing them in the back. Lovely fella.

[Grachan]

I watched that 82 crash over many many times. certainly not a time id envy the referee job!....guess we all have different opinions.

personally think Penhall flicked his wheel out coming off the bend, but it don't appear to have hit him, at the time Carter went down, though left no room for Carter to go.

Would Carter of laid it down on purpose? not a chance in hell, especially after his mega serious fall at Ipswich, and was only recently

out of hospital. There was some dodgy racing on the lap leading up to the incident also.

When the wheel flicked out it caught Carter's left handlebar and Carter came off.If you watch good quality footage you can see it.

 

 

There is a clip on youtube showing a different angle of the Penhall/Carter clash, (I think it's one of the CHiPs cameras) that clearly shows there was no contact.

It doesn't show there's no contact. You just can't see the contact from that angle.

Edited December 15, 2015 by grachan

[Dave the Mic]

Blimey, stirred up a hornets nest here, haven't I? Didn't mean to, honest. Please don't think I'm the shy & sensitive type, as I'm not, so feel free to disagree, I'm not bothered either way. I do, however, have my opinion, which, like all of you, I am entitled to.

 

Firstly, I haven't had time to check the source yet & if it is the book, my apologies, although I believe there was an article in the mag too. In fairness Tony Macdonlad did both in any case.

 

Taking the points at hand. 82 and all that. Watch good footage of LA & you can see Penhall does make contact with Carter. He also turned left on him earlier in the race. Don't think Carter would have fallen off on purpose, which only leaves one other possibility.

 

At White City, Penhall took the p**s out of the paying public, pure & simple. Had it been Carter in the states, (or any other rider at all for that matter, the Yanks would have lynched him). I appreciate that other riders have done things that are similar, but at the time, speedway was big business & he was a huge draw. It was aired on WoS, prime sports viewing at the time & did the sport a huge dis-service. What got most peoples backs up was the fact that they had paid to see a proper race meeting, Penhall was supposed to the speedway knight in shining armour & he badly misjudged the British feeling towards speedway & the sport as a whole, which (whilst it had/has its issues) was & is largely "honest". He ruined that for many people by doing what he did so brazenly. The incidents with Wigg & Simmons were mentioned earlier & rightly so. There were fines & suspensions handed out at the time & rightly so. What sanctions did Penhall receive? Errr, none.

 

There is then the issue of his messing Cradley about during 82, which if my understanding is clear started well before his actual retirement. Let's be clear about one thing, Bruce Penhall was interested in one thing. Bruce Penhall.

 

Now Carter. Contrary to some comments on here that would suggest Carter is being defended or has been hard done by - not at all, at least not by me. I am certainly not defending him. He was a fine speedway rider, that's a fact. But what he did, regardless of the circumstances could never be condoned by anyone. Comparing him, however to the Paris terrorists is ridiculous. He was/is a murderer. These things are all facts & cannot be denied. Just facts. No insults, no opinion on what he did & why he did it. I have my view, but I see no reason to publish it for it isn't relevant, likewise Penhall's.

 

So Penhall's comments. He is entitled to his view, of course. However, whilst Carter's crime cannot be condoned, I simply see no reason why Penhall should comment the way he did in print. It achieves nothing, serves no purpose (except to sell a book or magazine & secure Penhall a nice fee, I suspect-which of course makes it all OK). He has let himself down in my view, simply by being so vitriolic in a public domain & using his position in print to vent his hatred for Carter, for it cannot be described as anything else. Lovely.

 

Bottom line is, Penhall hated Carter when they were racing & clearly still does. The words confirm it & he has simply used the platform to vent his spleen about someone he disliked. I think the term "cheap shot" was used earlier. Absolutely.

 

There have been a few riders I have disliked over the 40 years I have been watching and/or been involved in speedway, but I don't feel the need to bad mouth them in public, especially after their demise.

 

Poor taste from Penhall? Cowardly? Cheap shot? All of the above.

[ColinMills]

excellent post....

[SCB]

What this thread does show is that 30 years after both retired/died they STILL get discussed/argued about. And that incident in the World Final is STILL causing controversy. Just can't see people arguing about a single incident form the last 10 years in 30 years time.

[ColinMills]

What this thread does show is that 30 years after both retired/died they STILL get discussed/argued about. And that incident in the World Final is STILL causing controversy. Just can't see people arguing about a single incident form the last 10 years in 30 years time.

speedway mattered then, Sky carry no ounce of weight compared to what World Of Sport did.

It was proper speedway, no gimmicks

[waiheke1]

I very much doubt that penhall was paid for his interview in the carter book.

And as for his column in backtrack, the publisher would have asked him to comment on carter.

In summary: Man kills wife then orphans his children by killing himself. Other man is asked for opinion on first man, and says he strongly disapproves of these actions. People get all upset about second man's comments. Seriously! ?!

[orion]

What this thread does show is that 30 years after both retired/died they STILL get discussed/argued about. And that incident in the World Final is STILL causing controversy. Just can't see people arguing about a single incident form the last 10 years in 30 years time.

Not sure about that ...what about Dakota North Dad

[The White Knight]

No.Either read it again and have a long think or bugger off with your idiotic posts

You really don't like being wrong - do you? :rofl: :rofl:

[Guest]

Blimey, stirred up a hornets nest here, haven't I? Didn't mean to, honest. Please don't think I'm the shy & sensitive type, as I'm not, so feel free to disagree, I'm not bothered either way. I do, however, have my opinion, which, like all of you, I am entitled to.

 

Firstly, I haven't had time to check the source yet & if it is the book, my apologies, although I believe there was an article in the mag too. In fairness Tony Macdonlad did both in any case.

 

Taking the points at hand. 82 and all that. Watch good footage of LA & you can see Penhall does make contact with Carter. He also turned left on him earlier in the race. Don't think Carter would have fallen off on purpose, which only leaves one other possibility.

 

At White City, Penhall took the p**s out of the paying public, pure & simple. Had it been Carter in the states, (or any other rider at all for that matter, the Yanks would have lynched him). I appreciate that other riders have done things that are similar, but at the time, speedway was big business & he was a huge draw. It was aired on WoS, prime sports viewing at the time & did the sport a huge dis-service. What got most peoples backs up was the fact that they had paid to see a proper race meeting, Penhall was supposed to the speedway knight in shining armour & he badly misjudged the British feeling towards speedway & the sport as a whole, which (whilst it had/has its issues) was & is largely "honest". He ruined that for many people by doing what he did so brazenly. The incidents with Wigg & Simmons were mentioned earlier & rightly so. There were fines & suspensions handed out at the time & rightly so. What sanctions did Penhall receive? Errr, none.

 

There is then the issue of his messing Cradley about during 82, which if my understanding is clear started well before his actual retirement. Let's be clear about one thing, Bruce Penhall was interested in one thing. Bruce Penhall.

 

Now Carter. Contrary to some comments on here that would suggest Carter is being defended or has been hard done by - not at all, at least not by me. I am certainly not defending him. He was a fine speedway rider, that's a fact. But what he did, regardless of the circumstances could never be condoned by anyone. Comparing him, however to the Paris terrorists is ridiculous. He was/is a murderer. These things are all facts & cannot be denied. Just facts. No insults, no opinion on what he did & why he did it. I have my view, but I see no reason to publish it for it isn't relevant, likewise Penhall's.

 

So Penhall's comments. He is entitled to his view, of course. However, whilst Carter's crime cannot be condoned, I simply see no reason why Penhall should comment the way he did in print. It achieves nothing, serves no purpose (except to sell a book or magazine & secure Penhall a nice fee, I suspect-which of course makes it all OK). He has let himself down in my view, simply by being so vitriolic in a public domain & using his position in print to vent his hatred for Carter, for it cannot be described as anything else. Lovely.

 

Bottom line is, Penhall hated Carter when they were racing & clearly still does. The words confirm it & he has simply used the platform to vent his spleen about someone he disliked. I think the term "cheap shot" was used earlier. Absolutely.

 

There have been a few riders I have disliked over the 40 years I have been watching and/or been involved in speedway, but I don't feel the need to bad mouth them in public, especially after their demise.

 

Poor taste from Penhall? Cowardly? Cheap shot? All of the above.

 

As the old saying goes.."...can you be more explicit?..."

[lucifer sam]

When the wheel flicked out it caught Carter's left handlebar and Carter came off.If you watch good quality footage you can see it.

 

 

No, you claimed to see contact, when several other people watching the same coverage, couldn't see any contact. You couldn't see any contact because there was no contact. Not at that point of the bend, in any case.

 

All the best

Rob

[Dave the Mic]

I very much doubt that penhall was paid for his interview in the carter book.

And as for his column in backtrack, the publisher would have asked him to comment on carter.

In summary: Man kills wife then orphans his children by killing himself. Other man is asked for opinion on first man, and says he strongly disapproves of these actions. People get all upset about second man's comments. Seriously! ?!

Very simplified version of the situation. Quaint. He may well not have been paid, but suspect he was. Appreciate he would have been asked to comment, but he had already stated he was uncomfortable doing so. So why do it then? The word hypocrite springs to mind.

 

No one is "upset" as you so sweetly put it. This is a forum. Forums are for airing views. That is what we are doing.

[Grachan]

No, you claimed to see contact, when several other people watching the same coverage, couldn't see any contact. You couldn't see any contact because there was no contact. Not at that point of the bend, in any case.

 

All the best

Rob

Wrong.

 

It took me about 30 years to see it, but once you've seen it you see it every time after that.

 

What have you seen it on?

 

I had it on betamax for many years. Couldn't see any contact.

 

Watched it on Youtube. Couldn't see any contact.

 

Then, one day, Steve Shovlar put DVD quality footage on here. Straight away you could see the contact. It was a real "Eureka" moment. Had I been in the bath I would have got out an run down the street.

 

Penhall's wheel flicked out, bumped the left tip of Carter's handlebars. Carter jolted and fell off.

 

Not seeing contact doesn't mean there wasn't contact. Once you see it you will know. There was contact. Nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise, because I saw it, and several others did too when that footage was posted.

[Gemini]

I think we need to see Steve Sholvar's clip again. Where are you Steve?

[moxey63]

Hard to imagine, each appeared just thrice in World Finals. I think that's correct, off the top of my head.

Edited December 15, 2015 by moxey63

[Dave the Mic]

Hard to imagine, each appeared just thrice each in World Finals. I think that's correct, off the top of my head.

You're quite correct. Penhall, 80-82 & Carter 81-83. Incredible really that they are still two of the most talked about racers in speedway history

[moxey63]

You're quite correct. Penhall, 80-82 & Carter 81-83. Incredible really that they are still two of the most talked about racers in speedway history

 

Where have all the stars gone? We took them for granted back then, there were that many, and all we're left with are pretenders.