steve roberts Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Not what Dave Lanning said. I think that was a reference to the run-off in which Ivan fell and although the race continued Jerzy was technically awarded the race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 I think that was a reference to the run-off in which Ivan fell and although the race continued Jerzy was technically awarded the race? Lanning's commentry of the 1973 was incedibly biased. I don't think you can take much from it. His opinion on the Plech incident is nonsense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 There were three Wembley riders who won the World Championship. Lionel Van Praag, Tommy Price and Freddie Williams (twice). There were four as Ove Fundin rode for Wembley although not at the same time as he won the titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) There were four as Ove Fundin rode for Wembley although not at the same time as he won the titles. So,you agree there were 3 then? Ove doesn't even come into the equation as from the time he rode for Wembley he never rode in a Wembley world final.He only rode in Wembley finals before he signed for Wembley Edited November 29, 2015 by iris123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 There were four as Ove Fundin rode for Wembley although not at the same time as he won the titles. Well then, he can't be counted as a home track winner then can he, which is what the whole conversation was about or did that pass you by? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) So Ivan made a bad error and paid badly for it but that was not Jerzys fault.The only thing i would say is the pole did get away with some terrible rolling starts Ivan was unlucky but was he lucky in 72?and maybe 79.?I think it's fair to say all the Poles got away with some terrible rolling starts in most of their races in the meeting, mostly because the start Marshall was useless, and so many other starts were ragged, not fit for a novice meeting, let alone a World Final. With 140,000 Poles getting restless in the crowd there was a lot of pressure on the organisers for a home rider to win, hence Dave Lannings comment that they were making the rules up as they went along to try to get a Pole to win. The run off is on you tube for all to see. If you watch closely you can see the Pole sits about three feet back from tp the tapes, starts rolling and the ref. let's the tapes go, so the Pole is away. The race is not even stopped when Mauger is lying unconscious on the track with the doctor attending him. Then we see the sheer arrogance of the Pole. As he comes down the straight he can see Mauger lying on the track with the track doctor leaning over him and he deliberately let his bike run wide missing the doctor and Mauger literally by inches, showering them both with shale. As to your comment about Mauger, Sid , I agree with you that he was a bit lucky in 79, and I think in his previous win, but I can't really fault his win in 72 although I think things might have been different if Briggo hadn't been mown down by Bernt Persson. Edited November 29, 2015 by E I Addio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 I think it's fair to say all the Poles got away with some terrible rolling starts in most of their races in the meeting, mostly because the start Marshall was useless, and so many other starts were ragged, not fit for a novice meeting, let alone a World Final. With 140,000 Poles getting restless in the crowd there was a lot of pressure on the organisers for a home rider to win, hence Dave Lannings comment that they were making the rules up as they went along to try to get a Pole to win. The run off is on you tube for all to see. If you watch closely you can see the Pole sits about three feet back from tp the tapes, starts rolling and the ref. let's the tapes go, so the Pole is away. The race is not even stopped when Mauger is lying unconscious on the track with the doctor attending him. Then we see the sheer arrogance of the Pole. As he comes down the straight he can see Mauger lying on the track with the track doctor leaning over him and he deliberately let his bike run wide missing the doctor and Mauger literally by inches, showering them both with shale. As to your comment about Mauger, Sid , I agree with you that he was a bit lucky in 79, and I think in his previous win, but I can't really fault his win in 72 although I think things might have been different if Briggo hadn't been mown down by Bernt Persson. Not sure about Ivan being lucky in 1979 but certainly 1977 one could argue (although I wouldn't personally) The race that was re-started after John Boulger fell whilst leading seemed to take forever with both Ivan and Ole Olsen 'ignoring' the two-minite warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) I think it's fair to say all the Poles got away with some terrible rolling starts in most of their races in the meeting, mostly because the start Marshall was useless, and so many other starts were ragged, not fit for a novice meeting, let alone a World Final. With 140,000 Poles getting restless in the crowd there was a lot of pressure on the organisers for a home rider to win, hence Dave Lannings comment that they were making the rules up as they went along to try to get a Pole to win. The run off is on you tube for all to see. If you watch closely you can see the Pole sits about three feet back from tp the tapes, starts rolling and the ref. let's the tapes go, so the Pole is away. The race is not even stopped when Mauger is lying unconscious on the track with the doctor attending him. Then we see the sheer arrogance of the Pole. As he comes down the straight he can see Mauger lying on the track with the track doctor leaning over him and he deliberately let his bike run wide missing the doctor and Mauger literally by inches, showering them both with shale. As to your comment about Mauger, Sid , I agree with you that he was a bit lucky in 79, and I think in his previous win, but I can't really fault his win in 72 although I think things might have been different if Briggo hadn't been mown down by Bernt Persson. Addio i think you are the only person who has said Ivan maybe was lucky in 79? others i have spoke to about it have never really considered it.In 1972 me with my bias Briggo head on believes he should of won it, but there was always that niggle in my mind that OLE could of been the best man on the night. He was very unlucky but it was his riding error though that made him in fall could Briggo have scored 14 ? would that have been anough.? It really has riled me over the years that Barry could of equaled Ove's record he deserved that in my book but it was not to be Eh!! Edited November 30, 2015 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 No question Egon Muller was the best rider on show that day in Norden 1983. He was no where near the top speedway rider in the world at that time though, he won at Norden because the authorities decided to run a speedway final on what is basically a mini longtrack, a discipline in which Muller excelled 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) I think it's fair to say all the Poles got away with some terrible rolling starts in most of their races in the meeting, mostly because the start Marshall was useless, and so many other starts were ragged, not fit for a novice meeting, let alone a World Final. With 140,000 Poles getting restless in the crowd there was a lot of pressure on the organisers for a home rider to win, hence Dave Lannings comment that they were making the rules up as they went along to try to get a Pole to win. The run off is on you tube for all to see. If you watch closely you can see the Pole sits about three feet back from tp the tapes, starts rolling and the ref. let's the tapes go, so the Pole is away. The race is not even stopped when Mauger is lying unconscious on the track with the doctor attending him. Then we see the sheer arrogance of the Pole. As he comes down the straight he can see Mauger lying on the track with the track doctor leaning over him and he deliberately let his bike run wide missing the doctor and Mauger literally by inches, showering them both with shale. Massive load of sour grapes. Szczakiel was the best rider on the day. He beat Mauger not once, but twice. Mauger was behind Szczakiel when he fell off. Szczakiel had to really race for the points in his last couple of rides. In his fourth ride, the Russian barged him all over the place, and he was last at one point, but then battled back up to second place. Plech was 'gifted' an extra point by Jancarz. Szczakiel received no such gifts, he earned 13 points the hard way. The one-off World Final was won by the best rider on that particular day. In 1973, at Katowice, that was Jerzy Szczakiel. Therefore, he was a deserving World Champion. Ivan Mauger certainly never tried to detract from Szczakiel's achievement - quite the opposite. As Mauger pointed out in his autobiography, from 1971 to 1973, they met 13 times and it stood: Mauger 7, Sczcakiel 6. More-or-less 50/50. Szczakiel clearly had a lot of talent to achieve that. All the best Rob Edited November 30, 2015 by lucifer sam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Massive load of sour grapes. Szczakiel was the best rider on the day. He beat Mauger not once, but twice. Mauger was behind Szczakiel when he fell off. Szczakiel had to really race for the points in his last couple of rides. In his fourth ride, the Russian barged him all over the place, and he was last at one point, but then battled back up to second place. Plech was 'gifted' an extra point by Jancarz. Szczakiel received no such gifts, he earned 13 points the hard way. The one-off World Final was won by the best rider on that particular day. In 1973, at Katowice, that was Jerzy Szczakiel. Therefore, he was a deserving World Champion. Ivan Mauger certainly never tried to detract from Szczakiel's achievement - quite the opposite. As Mauger pointed out in his autobiography, from 1971 to 1973, they met 13 times and it stood: Mauger 7, Sczcakiel 6. More-or-less 50/50. Szczakiel clearly had a lot of talent to achieve that. All the best Rob That is why Ivan was a GREAT champion, he dusted himself down came back and won another two titles.I was a massive Briggo fan but i admired Ivan so much what a man and champion to see him ride was a treat believe me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Massive load of sour grapes. Szczakiel was the best rider on the day. He beat Mauger not once, but twice. Mauger was behind Szczakiel when he fell off. Szczakiel had to really race for the points in his last couple of rides. In his fourth ride, the Russian barged him all over the place, and he was last at one point, but then battled back up to second place. Plech was 'gifted' an extra point by Jancarz. Szczakiel received no such gifts, he earned 13 points the hard way. The one-off World Final was won by the best rider on that particular day. In 1973, at Katowice, that was Jerzy Szczakiel. Therefore, he was a deserving World Champion. Ivan Mauger certainly never tried to detract from Szczakiel's achievement - quite the opposite. As Mauger pointed out in his autobiography, from 1971 to 1973, they met 13 times and it stood: Mauger 7, Sczcakiel 6. More-or-less 50/50. Szczakiel clearly had a lot of talent to achieve that. All the best Rob Rob, Not sure if Jerzy Sczakiel was the best rider on that particular day just that he had the 'rub of the rubber' on that afternoon, Zenon Plech was well in for a chance of the title until un-ceremoniously 'knocked off' by the Russian, Gregori Chlynovski (apologies for the spelling) whilst leading. I'm convinced that Ivan would have passed Jerzy in the run-off but, as he has admitted many times since, he miscalculated his move and fell thus giving the race to the Pole. I take nothing away from Sczakiel. He took his chances (rolling starts) and won! That was the beauty and drama of one-off finals...which is why I prefer them to the Grand Prix! Steve 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Addio i think you are the only person who has said Ivan maybe was lucky in 79? others i have spoke to about it have never really considered it.In 1972 me with my bias Briggo head on believes he should of won it, but there was always that niggle in my mind that OLE could of been the best man on the night. He was very unlucky but it was his riding error though that made him in fall could Briggo have scored 14 ? would that have been anough.? It really has riled me over the years that Barry could of equaled Ove's record he deserved that in my book but it was not to be Eh!!OK Sid, I am happy to be corrected on Maugers 79 Title win. I cannot remember the details so maybe I am getting mixed up with another occasion. I totally agree with you about Briggo though. The other way of looking at it is that Fundin was sort of lucky to take 5 World titles. There was an interesting article in Classic Speedwáy when Bengt Jansen was talking about his run-off with Fundin. Apparently both riders knew that whoever won the toss for gate positions would win the title because one gate was working much better than the others. Ove won the toss and picked the best gate. Jansen said he even asked Fundin to swap gates on the basis Fundin already won 4 titles and Bengt hadn't won any but Ove wouldn't swap. Still I cant fault Fundin on his record. By all accounts, one of the very , very best the sport has ever seen. Edited November 30, 2015 by E I Addio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 As to your comment about Mauger, Sid , I agree with you that he was a bit lucky in 79, and I think in his previous win, but I can't really fault his win in 72 although I think things might have been different if Briggo hadn't been mown down by Bernt Persson. One finished the night a hero https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvb3kDJpR1w The other finished a villain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRYM-qWMr6w 2 very similar first bends though, only difference is Hans didn't fall 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 The other way of looking at it is that Fundin was sort of lucky to take 5 World titles. No.Just no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 One finished the night a hero The other finished a villain 2 very similar first bends though, only difference is Hans didn't fall And of course the way Bruce drove under penhall is reminiscent of the way Lee drove him aside on the way to victory a year earlier. A very fine line between hard and dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) No.Just no! I wish that I had seen Fundin in his prime (saw him compete in 1988 Golden Greats Meeting at Brandon) One of the true greats. To have seen Fundin, Craven, Briiggs, Moore and Knuttsson when they were all competing at the same time would have been something very special! Edited December 1, 2015 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 To have seen Fundin, Craven, Briiggs, Moore and Knuttsson when they were all competing at the same time would have been something very special! Really it was Fundin, Craven, Briggs and Moore. Knutsson was younger than others. He first reached the World Final in 1961, by which time the other four had seven World Championships between them. Knutsson was very similar in age to Mauger, but retired early. But yes I'd have loved to see these riders competing against each other. All the best Rob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I did manage to see some heats with Fundin,Mauger,Briggo and PC.....although it was Collins,not Craven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) I wish that I had scene Fundin in his prime (saw him compete in 1988 Golden Greats Meeting at Brandon) One of the true greats. To have seen Fundin, Craven, Briiggs, Moore and Knuttsson when they were all competing at the same time would have been something very special!One (or two I suppose!) of my best memories is seeing the two near end of season meetings at New Cross (The King of the South Cup and The Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy) in 1961 when not only did the "Big Five" take part but also Jack Young back to his very best. Sadly, on neither occasion did all six compete together - Craven and Knutson missed the KotS Cup and Fundin missed the TF Trophy - but, seeing all those greats together was incredible, especially as the winner on both occasions was Jack Young. I did see the Big Five all together in the Internationale Final at Harringay in 1961, when they took the first five places. Another great meeting, which Ove Fundin won on an absolutely neutral track that hadn't been raced on since 1954. Edited December 1, 2015 by norbold 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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