heathen chemistry Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 the bspa have dug a hole so big that the gp riders gonna use it as a wormhole to get to the aussie gp next yr seriously do any of them have any sense.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 the bspa have dug a hole so big that the gp riders gonna use it as a wormhole to get to the aussie gp next yr seriously do any of them have any sense.................. Relax.... It is all part of the 'Masterplan'....😉😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Its so terrible it's brilliant. It makes the mockery of not giving the reserves their el averages even more of a mockery. you think this is bad, wait til we hear what the logic was behind who's on the HL list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) You couldn't make this up..... Quite honestly you have to question the sanity of them all. Aside from Buster promotion, I cannot see one positive that the AGM has done for the sport. Talk about dis-array..... Issue 1; Because we have had protected heat format for two years now, How can you compare CMA when selecting Heatleaders ?? How many people is on the list that wont find a team position.?? issue 2; Why is the HL list such a big secret?? Issue 3; If the draft rider is to be subjected to the same race format again, then why use the PL averages to position them on the selection list. Issue 4; Now we are told the draft riders can go into the 1-5 on the CMA score. Using the same protected format, then surely the Second Strings will continue their elevated position, and the sub- quality of HL could find themselves in the reserve berths. issue 5 Why should a Draft rider on a reduced contract want to be classed in the 1-5??. Surely that would deserve more financial reward?? That would defeat the whole idea of cheap team places.. Issue 6; Why do you drive most of the top points scorers away, yet have a big points limit for team building purposes I am of the impression that each of the decisions are made on a whim with no pre-thought of the consequences. Some of these issues are as extreme as you could ever imagine. The existing relationship between BSPA and the fans must be at an all time low, It seems that the BSPA regard us as the enemy, whereas we should be singing from the same Hymn Sheet. Reading the forum, like I do, I see some wonderful and straight forward ideas and opinions. Most of these are common sense any way. Instead of the BSPA thinking they are the bosses and we are mere mortals, I suggest they too read these posts to help them get this sport back to some sort of level footing. In most sports, 'Common Sense' usually prevails in the end, but in British Speedway, I'm not so sure..... Edited November 25, 2015 by GRW123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 You couldn't make this up..... Quite honestly you have to question the sanity of them all. Aside from Buster promotion, I cannot see one positive that the AGM has done for the sport. Talk about dis-array..... Issue 1; Because we have had protected heat format for two years now, How can you compare CMA when selecting Heatleaders ?? How many people is on the list that wont find a team position.?? issue 2; Why is the HL list such a big secret?? Issue 3; If the draft rider is to be subjected to the same race format again, then why use the PL averages to position them on the selection list. Issue 4; Now we are told the draft riders can go into the 1-5 on the CMA score. Using the same protected format, then surely the Second Strings will continue their elevated position, and the sub- quality of HL could find themselves in the reserve berths. issue 5 Why should a Draft rider on a reduced contract want to be classed in the 1-5??. Surely that would deserve more financial reward?? That would defeat the whole idea of cheap team places.. Issue 6; Why do you drive most of the top points scorers away, yet have a big points limit for team building purposes I am of the impression that each of the decisions are made on a whim with no pre-thought of the consequences. Some of these issues are as extreme as you could ever imagine. The existing relationship between BSPA and the fans must be at an all time low, It seems that the BSPA regard us as the enemy, whereas we should be singing from the same Hymn Sheet. Reading the forum, like I do, I see some wonderful and straight forward ideas and opinions. Most of these are common sense any way. Instead of the BSPA thinking they are the bosses and we are mere mortals, I suggest they too read these posts to help them get this sport back to some sort of level footing. In most sports, 'Common Sense' usually prevails in the end, but in British Speedway, I'm not so sure..... Re: Issue 5, contracts can (and will be?) adjusted to reflect this, I am led to believe. Although quite what will happen if agreements can't be made, I am unsure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Confirmed that race format remains the same. Averages every 2 weeks. How the hell can a reserve get a true average if there are still 2 protected heats.Am i right in thinking that if a reserve has 2 high scoring meetings that it is possible that his average could move him straight into a heat leader spot(ie Worrall scoring 15 points at wolves last year) ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Re: Issue 5, contracts can (and will be?) adjusted to reflect this, I am led to believe. Although quite what will happen if agreements can't be made, I am unsure! You can't do that. The reason Garrity refused to be part of the draft was the money. If you now decide that the money can be renegotiated then Garrity can re-join the draft. However bad a rule is, once you have decided on it you have to stick with it or it's grossly unfair on those making decisions based no the rule. How the hell can a reserve get a true average if there are still 2 protected heats.Am i right in thinking that if a reserve has 2 high scoring meetings that it is possible that his average could move him straight into a heat leader spot(ie Worrall scoring 15 points at wolves last year) ?. I can't wait,. as you say, 2 or 3 of them 4 meetings resulting in big scores will see reserves on 8-9 point averages and becoming heat leaders. Meanwhile someone like Kenneth Bjerre no his 5.9 average could conceivably find himself in reserve. Imagine the farce if Josh Bates manages to average 7.5 for Coventry then breaks his leg. We'd use R/R all year for a draft rider Edited November 25, 2015 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Imagine the farce if Josh Bates manages to average 7.5 for Coventry then breaks his leg. We'd use R/R all year for a draft rider I should imagine if Josh Bates (or any other reserve) gets to No.1 then the management will break his leg for him! I'm sure someone has got the wrong end of the stick here. They can't possibly use the same format and allow reserves to move up on the strength of picking up easy points against other reserves whilst top international riders drop down on the basis of being beaten by other top international riders. So far we haven't found a fan on this forum who thinks it would be a good idea, so surely in a room-full of promoters some can see the problem? They certainly will see the problem when they're paying Troy Batchelor £250 per point to clean up in the reserve races! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 If by some obscure chance Garrity were to suffer a drop in form and therefore drop to reserve, then presumably he would have ensured his contract would stipulate that he remains on the same (1-5) wage rate?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Leslie Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) If by some obscure chance Garrity were to suffer a drop in form and therefore drop to reserve, then presumably he would have ensured his contract would stipulate that he remains on the same (1-5) wage rate?! It's not an obscure chance. If we keep the same format, even if he rides well, his average in the top 5 won't go up much/any. But a reserve getting 6 free points from the reserve races will rocket up. They cannot possibly be using last year's format and allowing free movement in and out of reserve. On its own that would be a recipe for disaster, but when you throw in the fact that the sneakier promoters will also fiddle it to their benefit, then you have mayhem. I nominate SCB to write a letter to the Speedway Star explaining the problem....that would be a issue worth reading Edited November 25, 2015 by John Leslie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I nominate SCB to write a letter to the Speedway Star explaining the problem....that would be a issue worth reading It would be nice if someone at the Speedway Star pointed out the madness of it all! Why do they need a letter?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 How the hell can a reserve get a true average if there are still 2 protected heats.Am i right in thinking that if a reserve has 2 high scoring meetings that it is possible that his average could move him straight into a heat leader spot(ie Worrall scoring 15 points at wolves last year) ?. Must admit I was taken aback when it was announced the race format hasn't changed. After discussing all the things they (AGM) got wrong and sort to rectify the race programme to most of us is part of that problem so I find it baffling. But yes they will, but then so did the 4 point foreigners who were assessed wrongly for years as well. Hopefully some common sense will prevail for the draft riders and maybe they will continue to refer to their PL averages for next season also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) SCB: It would be nice if someone at the Speedway Star pointed out the madness of it all! Why do they need a letter?! I would be nice for anybody from the BSPA to answer some of these issues.... Edited November 25, 2015 by GRW123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 So what is clear about what we now know? - the race format is the same as this season. - there were 18 riders on the HL list so not all teams will have 3 (assessed) heat leaders. These riders were graded by all promotions. - The HL leader list was to ensure teams got at least 1 or 2 from that list. - averages will count when determining the race order, not the HL list. - only tier 1 reserves will move up not tier 2. Both get new averages. - shared jobs and 2 day race night is likely to be considered as way forward in 2017. - the 'hidden' lists are likely to be public in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 FML, its like they were taking bets on who could come up with the most ludicrous idea, and then they decided to implement all of them... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 It would be nice if someone at the Speedway Star pointed out the madness of it all! Why do they need a letter?! Something to start the fire with on the dark, cold, winter days at BSPA towers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acef Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I think you've also got to look at the fact that when they move up (not if) they'll still be racing each other no matter whether it's as a number 1 or number 7. So no improvement at all. Stupid stupid rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 It's not an obscure chance. If we keep the same format, even if he rides well, his average in the top 5 won't go up much/any. But a reserve getting 6 free points from the reserve races will rocket up. They cannot possibly be using last year's format and allowing free movement in and out of reserve. On its own that would be a recipe for disaster, but when you throw in the fact that the sneakier promoters will also fiddle it to their benefit, then you have mayhem. I nominate SCB to write a letter to the Speedway Star explaining the problem....that would be a issue worth reading You are assuming Garrity will be the lowest average of the 1-5 when the averages change - and that Sarjeant will have scored sufficiently well to go up?! As has now been clarified from the Wolves forum, its only the Tier 1 reserve that can go up, so the possibility of having Woryna or Garrity (or King??!) at reserve for a few meetings would surely suit Coventry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 The format has not been changed at all so you will still have reserves out scoring heat leader and second string doing well until they move up to heat leader. The number 7 stays at 7 all season while the number 6 can move up. Averages are published every two weeks. There are 18 heat leaders but they don't have to be at 1 3 or 5 and those positions are taken up by the three highest averaging riders. At Wolves and Kings Lynn the chances are that Lindgren and Bjerre will start at 4 even though they are in the heat leader list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 You are assuming Garrity will be the lowest average of the 1-5 when the averages change - and that Sarjeant will have scored sufficiently well to go up?! As has now been clarified from the Wolves forum, its only the Tier 1 reserve that can go up, so the possibility of having Woryna or Garrity (or King??!) at reserve for a few meetings would surely suit Coventry. Its not about being it benefitting Coventry, or Poole or say Wolves, Its about the creditability of League racing and trying to project the sport. If it is perceived by Joe Public as a mockery, the chances of him ever wanting to attend in person is nil. Trying to explain to my 8 yr old grandson why reserve riders have a better average than the top heatleaders, sums up the pathetic situation that now exists..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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