Gavan Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 So who's fault is thats ? for once in your life start using your brain pal. true speedway fans dont want to see the sport go to the wall but you are just so thick you cant see any issues, as long as Poole win who cares what happens to the sport hey!! butt out and let the adults have a discussion about what to do with the sport 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 So who's fault is thats ?The promoters who seem to have ignored the issues and voted in a limit that's too high. Ultimately it's not good for anyone. Let's say Lakeside struggle from the off, thy lose loads of money. That's one less team in the league. If Coventry get turfed out of Brandon next year too. Then what for the EL? This cock up could kill a team or two. I know it's harsh on the riders concerned but there always needs to be a couple of riders left over to fill in for injuries or the team that messed up signing their original team. That's not been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) Certain posters were cracking on in similar vein about the points limit in the season just gone, when the EL had one of its most competitive seasons for a long while with 5 of the 8 teams in constant touch of the play-offs right to the end. It was injuries and poor performances from riders who were expected to score better that led to the bottom 3 being left behind - 2 of which had a GP rider in their line-up - nothing directly to do with points limits. One of the reasons that the EL continues to lose its top riders - in addition to all the extra travelling, staying in hotels, lower pay etc - is because when they do race over here they have less and less serious competition. That's my 'blinkered thicko from the South Coast' view!! Lets just carry on driving the sport into the ground by pandering to the lowest common denominator.....! Edited November 20, 2015 by Skidder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Wolves and Leicester were about 4 points under the limit and could do nothing about it. Swindon got luck that Darcy come along or they would have been screwed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Wolves and Leicester could do little about it because decent riders don't want regular Monday or Saturday racing. Swindon were knackered mainly because of the nasty injury to Miedzinski - nothing to do with the points limit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The limit was way too high and with more big names staying away it makes it impossible for teams to find the riders available to make it closes to the limit of 40.5. Change it to 38 or 39 and get teams that will be equally balanced but more importantly get rid of the race format that has caused this mess 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzum Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 While I understand the logic of those arguing for a lower points limit, the fact it is 40.5 allows riders with inflated averages like Zengota, Summers, Nilsson a chance to ride this year. It also allows teams to look at heat leaders who rode before the recent heat format change. The real issue is that the heat format has skewed too many riders averages one way or the other that they aren't a real reflection of their relative abilities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 One of the reasons that the EL continues to lose its top riders - in addition to all the extra travelling, staying in hotels, lower pay etc - is because when they do race over here they have less and less serious competition. That is not necessarily the case with all of them . Some feel the need for regular racing other race here because they don't have the sort of pressure they have in Poland to perform and can enjoy their racing. The only common denominator is that very few of them race here because they need the money ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 While I understand the logic of those arguing for a lower points limit, the fact it is 40.5 allows riders with inflated averages like Zengota, Summers, Nilsson a chance to ride this year. It also allows teams to look at heat leaders who rode before the recent heat format change. The real issue is that the heat format has skewed too many riders averages one way or the other that they aren't a real reflection of their relative abilities. At the end of the year the points limit will average out about 42. That happened but that was with reserves averaging about 10ish per team. They are not taking up 7ish per team. That's a loss of 3 points a team so you're down to 39 before we lost Ward(and Kildemand), Magic, Puk and Zagar. It's slightly offset by adding Krys Buckzkowski. That's another point lost. This takes into account the likes of Summers and Zengi who someone is going to have to sign or be even lower that the limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 And a team which gets up to the limit purely by signing 5 riders with inflated averages will be totally uncompetitive sad state of affairs if sides are struggling to get an attractive side together with a points limit set lower than the 46 points it takes to win a match im very much in fear for our sport i hope buster and co at the bspa can rescue the situation but i fear its too late maybe a 1 big league can save it for a few seasons You're aware of course that averages are calculated on the basis of 4 heats per rider? And that reserves are having their averages reduced byvspprox 40%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzum Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 At the end of the year the points limit will average out about 42. That happened but that was with reserves averaging about 10ish per team. They are not taking up 7ish per team. That's a loss of 3 points a team so you're down to 39 before we lost Ward(and Kildemand), Magic, Puk and Zagar. It's slightly offset by adding Krys Buckzkowski. That's another point lost. This takes into account the likes of Summers and Zengi who someone is going to have to sign or be even lower that the limit. Yes I understand but if you are the Bspa you are trying not to lose the people you mentioned but to attract people like Buzz, KK Vaculik etc to come or give teams the opportunity to get them in. Therefore raising the standard of the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 How many teams have to fold before people realise that their is only a certain amount of money that clubs can pay even if the GP boys wanted to ride here. Is winning a 8 team league really more important than the sport losing teams?. I guess to some the answer is yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Yes I understand but if you are the Bspa you are trying not to lose the people you mentioned but to attract people like Buzz, KK Vaculik etc to come or give teams the opportunity to get them in. Therefore raising the standard of the league. The points limit has got nothing to do with whether riders ride here. A points limit of 40.5 is not keeping Niicki or Emil away. What keeps them away is the fact that they can earn plenty of money without the extra traveling of coming here or the extra expense of setting up a British base with Bikes, workshop mechanics etc. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YerRopes Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 The points limit has got nothing to do with whether riders ride here. A points limit of 40.5 is not keeping Niicki or Emil away. What keeps them away is the fact that they can earn plenty of money without the extra traveling of coming here or the extra expense of setting up a British base with Bikes, workshop mechanics etc. Totally agree with that... It looks like the BSPA (Promoters) just expected everyone to return, but without NKI, KIller, Magic, Zagar etc certain teams will struggle to field a competitive 7.. I just hope no one does an Oxford... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 Totally agree with that... It looks like the BSPA (Promoters) just expected everyone to return, but without NKI, KIller, Magic, Zagar etc certain teams will struggle to field a competitive 7.. I just hope no one does an Oxford... Or a Birmingham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted November 20, 2015 Report Share Posted November 20, 2015 2015 Averages inc Fast track riders PL averages converted to EL (some averages not correct but about that figure) Belle Vue - 41.78 .... Zagar 7.83 gone Coventry - 40.99 ..... Kings Lynn - 39.42 ...... Iversen 8.98 gone .... Schlein 6.24 not included Lakeside - 39.19 ..... Leicester - 38.63 ..... Poole - 43.10 ..... Janowski 8.97 gone ... Buczkowski 6.48 in ... Kurtz 5.46 in Swindon 42.52 ..... Kildemand 7.10 gone Wolves 35.91 ...... Karlsson 5.51 gone ? Even using the averages of fast track riders PL approximate averages shows that before more top names decided to ditch Britain, it was going to be very hard to get close to the 40.5 limit This would have been much better to have gone with my idea for the last decade or so of not just forming a British League involving all tracks but also turning the Elite League into a much better and stronger league using top riders in a season over just 14 meetings all on a Monday night and leaving the other six nights for Premier and British League fixtures. It obviously would have been a massive change and would only happen with all tracks helping out, but Premier League averages would have been used in all leagues and even now I feel it would have been better to have put the limit at 45 and used PL; converted averages where applicable. Jacob Thorssell 6.18 becomes 9.27 (1.5 conversion), Kacper Gomolski and Peter Karlsson 5.51 becomes 8.26 ........ This would have made the limit more obtainable and would have opened the door for more teams to join up or move the leagues closer ready for one big league next year. At present it looks like every team will struggle to reach the points limit apart from Swindon who could be tracking two of the top three averaging riders in Doyle 9.44 and Zengota 7.79 with Morris 6.70 forming the strongest heat leader trio by far. Change the limit and once and for all get rid of this terrible format 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Ah well, as a Poole fan it doesn't effect you so you can take a flippant attitude. It's NOT good for a team to be cast adrift from March and with no hope of building a decent team all season. To be fair, that is what happens year in, year out with any averages they produce... I've mentioned before now, the year we were bottom of the league and so desperate we needed Crumpy back to keep the crowd attending such was the dissatisfaction.... To do this we had to lose Morten Risager as we would have been 'too strong'!!! So he went to Swindon, who were top of the league and at that moment in time, about 40 points ahead of us!!? A small part if me is hoping that the lack of 'top talent' is more down to a brilliantly devised masterplan to reduce costs which can down the line reduce admission charges, narrow the ability levels on track to produce closer, more competitive racing, and ultimately put in some building blocks from which to build a more positve future for the sport.... Of course a much larger part of me suspects it is yet another 'town halls' up.... Edited November 21, 2015 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Should have allowed job sharing of number ones ...... Even at this late stage they should vote it in if they know certain top boys would be interested, most committees could do it ... Edited November 21, 2015 by Trees 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Panda Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Should have allowed job sharing of number ones ...... Even at this late stage they should vote it in if they know certain top boys would be interested, most committees could do it ... This was suggested a few seasons ago and no one wanted to know.................even though there were several riders all for it.......... The points limit has nothing to do with why top riders will not ride over here..............its more down to being cost effective than anything else.............. This is also why a squad system would work.................and would do away with the need for rider replacement and most likely guests.............ok not everyone gets a meeting every week but surely it makes sense and helps when injuries or personal commitments get in the way................ They scrapped the points limit in Poland and it worked............ RP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 How many teams have to fold before people realise that their is only a certain amount of money that clubs can pay even if the GP boys wanted to ride here. Is winning a 8 team league really more important than the sport losing teams?. I guess to some the answer is yes. It is/was to Swindon - its why they signed Darcy Ward and would probably have won it too!!!! To be fair, that is what happens year in, year out with any averages they produce... I've mentioned before now, the year we were bottom of the league and so desperate we needed Crumpy back to keep the crowd attending such was the dissatisfaction.... To do this we had to lose Morten Risager as we would have been 'too strong'!!! So he went to Swindon, who were top of the league and at that moment in time, about 40 points ahead of us!!? A small part if me is hoping that the lack of 'top talent' is more down to a brilliantly devised masterplan to reduce costs which can down the line reduce admission charges, narrow the ability levels on track to produce closer, more competitive racing, and ultimately put in some building blocks from which to build a more positve future for the sport.... Of course a much larger part of me suspects it is yet another 'town halls' up.... They have a 5-year plan!! Buster said so!!! This was suggested a few seasons ago and no one wanted to know.................even though there were several riders all for it.......... The points limit has nothing to do with why top riders will not ride over here..............its more down to being cost effective than anything else.............. This is also why a squad system would work.................and would do away with the need for rider replacement and most likely guests.............ok not everyone gets a meeting every week but surely it makes sense and helps when injuries or personal commitments get in the way................ They scrapped the points limit in Poland and it worked............ RP Except it bankrupted some teams RP..........!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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