Sherborne Green Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) Let's be sure what people are thinking. Is it the Heat Leader list has been made up by a] All El promoters, b] The executive of the BSPA or c) Matt Ford? As the list has been made up should a) all promoters be able to approach riders to ask them to ride for their team b] be allocated riders by the BSPA as to who rides for who or c] something else? Edited December 11, 2015 by Sherborne Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRushbrook Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Matt Ford I imagine is the annoying spoilt brat in the room who simply won't shut up until the weak minded parents (or promoters in this case) give in and let him have all his sweets! Such is the case I suspect with Buzskowski. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Matt Ford I imagine is the annoying spoilt brat in the room who simply won't shut up until the weak minded parents (or promoters in this case) give in and let him have all his sweets! Such is the case I suspect with Buzskowski. So go and put him on the naughty step then! The parents (other promoters) are in charge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Matt Ford I imagine is the annoying spoilt brat in the room who simply won't shut up until the weak minded parents (or promoters in this case) give in and let him have all his sweets! Such is the case I suspect with Buzskowski. Watt is on the list and IMO shouldn't be. So I'm not sure this is a Ford thing. Just a BSPA cock up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Watt is on the list and IMO shouldn't be. So I'm not sure this is a Ford thing. Just a BSPA cock up. Obviously opinions vary. I believe Watt should be on the list. Although he rode the majority of the season as a second string, had he had ridden for any other team he would be a HL. Trying to look at it logically, I don't think you could name 24 riders in the league that are better than Davey Watts. I don't agree with the list and believe the promoters should have a free hand to choose their own team. Apart from adding complications to team building it has put a bigger emphasis on the riders who are not on it...... So instead of matches being won or lost on the track, they will be won by the promoter who picks riders that are not on the list....... Bloody Brilliant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Obviously opinions vary. I believe Watt should be on the list. Although he rode the majority of the season as a second string, had he had ridden for any other team he would be a HL. Trying to look at it logically, I don't think you could name 24 riders in the league that are better than Davey Watts. If Davey Watt had ridden for any other team and been a heat leader he would have had a low average. So looking at it logically he's already handicapped by having a higher average without the need to be handicapped by making him a heat leader. It's not about opinion, averages are not opinions, they are facts. Team building is fact. The list should be fact based and not opinion or you may as well give every rider an average based no opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) If Davey Watt had ridden for any other team and been a heat leader he would have had a low average. So looking at it logically he's already handicapped by having a higher average without the need to be handicapped by making him a heat leader. It's not about opinion, averages are not opinions, they are facts. Team building is fact. The list should be fact based and not opinion or you may as well give every rider an average based no opinion. Butt Kennett's average is below 6.00 isn't it and you said he should be on the list because that's where he rode for us last season? Watt is and always has been better than Kennett and that's a fact. Edited December 11, 2015 by liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 I thought we had already pointed out that points and averages had little to do with quality of the rider, as shown by your many lists. While the race format is so rider protected, we will never get a real indication of the riders through scores alone. So you going on about facts is never going to happen. The only issue we all agree on is the List should be destroyed...... Unless we can get some form of calculations that relates the difficulties of the riders scores, the averages are as much use as hard toilet paper..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Matt Ford I imagine is the annoying spoilt brat in the room who simply won't shut up until the weak minded parents (or promoters in this case) give in and let him have all his sweets! Such is the case I suspect with Buzskowski. I don't think Matt even attends the AGM but has representatives there for the club. Matt Ford has no need to act in the way you imagine. He is clearly the most professional and experienced promoter out of the lot of them. Some have been in the game longer but don't have their finger right on the pulse, which is needed to be successful in this day and age. It is truly the golden age of Poole Speedway but take heart that it will not last forever. Other clubs have dominated in the past before slipping back into the pack and the same will happen with Poole. Just hope not for a good few years though! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Butt Kennett's average is below 6.00 isn't it and you said he should be on the list because that's where he rode for us last season? Watt is and always has been better than Kennett and that's a fact. The reason Kennetts average is below 6 is because he rode as a heat leader. Thus has a bargin average. If he had rode as a second string he'd have a 7.5 average. Watt was a second string all season. Kennett was a heat leader all season. So why is the heat leader not on the heat leader list but the second string is? It's irrelevant how good they are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANANAMAN Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 I don't think Matt even attends the AGM but has representatives there for the club. Matt Ford has no need to act in the way you imagine. He is clearly the most professional and experienced promoter out of the lot of them. Some have been in the game longer but don't have their finger right on the pulse, which is needed to be successful in this day and age. It is truly the golden age of Poole Speedway but take heart that it will not last forever. Other clubs have dominated in the past before slipping back into the pack and the same will happen with Poole. Just hope not for a good few years though! Agree with your comments totally Steve .. My only fear that were getting to the stage where its either amalgamation or a three team Elite .. Pirates , Aces & whoever can be arsed anymore ! The Mug Punters will still shell out the hard earned because that's what we do ! , but with a weaker product people get turned off . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 The reason Kennetts average is below 6 is because he rode as a heat leader. Thus has a bargin average. If he had rode as a second string he'd have a 7.5 average. Watt was a second string all season. Kennett was a heat leader all season. So why is the heat leader not on the heat leader list but the second string is? It's irrelevant how good they are! It's irrelevant who is actually the better rider? Ok then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish McRaker Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 As has already been pointed out, the origins of this farce is the race format from the past two years. OK - it may have been necessary in the first year of the ELDR scheme, but last year its relevance was highly dubious, and to retain it for a third year is complete madness, especially now that the "draft" is no longer a real draft, and numbers 6 and 7 will have averages with the no.6 able to move into the 1-5. Unless the race format reverts back to the previous one, this ludicrous situation with averages not being "real" is going to be perpetuated, and these idiotic and ham-fisted attempts to give riders a notional status based on cranky non-criteria will just recur each year. I wonder how the 2017 season's HL list will be compiled? The 40 nicest set of kevlars, i wouldn't be surprised. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) It's irrelevant who is actually the better rider? Ok then. Yes, because the average should tell you that. What the list should be is anyone who rode as a heat leader has a bargain average due to riding as a heat leader. Now you could sign Harris, Zagar, Morris, North and Karlsson. All 5 rode all meetings as a heat leader (possibly 3 or 4 as second string between them) so have artificially low averages. Where as another team could not sign Zengota, Watt, King, Kylmakorpi and AN Other despite the fact they have only raced 1/5 of the number of meetings as a heat leader and thus have artificially higher averages. Edited December 11, 2015 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Yes, because the average should tell you that. What the list should be is anyone who rode as a heat leader has a bargain average due to riding as a heat leader. Now you could sign Harris, Zagar, Morris, North and Karlsson. All 5 rode all meetings as a heat leader (possibly 3 or 4 as second string between them) so have artificially low averages. Where as another team could not sign Zengota, Watt, King, Kylmakorpi and AN Other despite the fact they have only raced 1/5 of the number of meetings as a heat leader and thus have artificially higher averages.Ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 It's irrelevant who is actually the better rider? Ok then. Yes, that is the whole point of having a list! You have riders on distorted averages due to the harder/easier rides they have at heat leader/second string. The 'list' was a good idea but has been poorly implemented by people who really don't seem to understand why they needed the list in the first place. HOWEVER... importantly they seem to have got lucky. Yes, Buzckowski (excuse spelling) isn't on the list as a heat leader, but Watt is when he shouldn't be.. so Poole have won one and lost one there so no qualms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Yes, that is the whole point of having a list! You have riders on distorted averages due to the harder/easier rides they have at heat leader/second string. The 'list' was a good idea but has been poorly implemented by people who really don't seem to understand why they needed the list in the first place. HOWEVER... importantly they seem to have got lucky. Yes, Buzckowski (excuse spelling) isn't on the list as a heat leader, but Watt is when he shouldn't be.. so Poole have won one and lost one there so no qualms. Far to complicated for me to get my little head around, a simple sport made complicated by idiots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Far to complicated for me to get my little head around, a simple sport made complicated by idiots. Indeed , let's examine how it will work. Heat leaders supposedly universally selected by all promotions for fairness to all teams and will start as a second string if they aren't in the top 3 of their teams averages making those heat leaders second strings at the start of the year. The BSPA must try harder to ensure we don't understand any logic at all in 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted December 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Far to complicated for me to get my little head around, a simple sport made complicated by idiots. Exactly that! And the stupid thing is, we'll have the same problems next year because the idiots running the sport have kept the same format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liam Posted December 11, 2015 Report Share Posted December 11, 2015 Indeed , let's examine how it will work. Heat leaders supposedly universally selected by all promotions for fairness to all teams and will start as a second string if they aren't in the top 3 of their teams averages making those heat leaders second strings at the start of the year. The BSPA must try harder to ensure we don't understand any logic at all in 2017. Complete shambles.Exactly that! And the stupid thing is, we'll have the same problems next year because the idiots running the sport have kept the same format.Is doesn't bare thinking where the sport will be in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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