Speedway Star World Ratings 1956-1966

[iris123]

It is interesting how UK based the Stenner rating are and more international the Speedway Star ratings are.Don't suppose there would be much debate about the top riders apart from a place or two,but I was a little surprised that some of these relatively unknown(to me) riders were placed so high.Josef Kamper for instance and some of the Poles.Bet they wouldn't have been so high in the Stenner ratings.But this happens all the time.Get a British journalist rating the best footballers of all time and you would probably get more British players than when a German or Italian done the ratings.......

[norbold]

Just a few "interesting" points...

 

1. This is for the Peter Craven fans. Between Stenners and Speedway Star all years between 1946 and 1966 are covered with the exception of 1954 and 1955. Peter won the the World Championship in 1955 so it may have been his year to top the rankings? I did once compile my own rankings for those two years, based on averages, World Championship results, other big individual meetings, Test matches, etc. though I can't find them now. I think I had Ronnie Moore top in both years, but not sure.

 

2. Interesting to see Ron Johnson at no.2 in 1948/49, more than 20 years after first riding. It would be the equivalent of say, someone like Greg Hancock being ranked no.2 this year.....oh.....er.....

 

3. Jack Biggs down at no.10 for 1951, the year he so nearly won the World Title. So, in spite of the events of that night, justice was probably done with Youngie and Split finishing first and second.

 

4. Double World Champion, Fred Williams, never reaching higher than 4th.

Edited November 16, 2015 by norbold

[norbold]

Ahah!!! After a diligent search of the Jacobs Archives I can now reveal that I have found my own rankings for 1954 and 1955, as I say based on League & Cup averages, World Championships, other big individual meetings, Test matches, etc.

 

And here they are:

 

1954

1. Ronnie Moore

2. Jack Young

3. Brian Crutcher

4. Olle Nygren

5. Geoff Mardon

6. Eddie Rigg

7. Arthur Forrest

8. Eric Williams

9. Barry Briggs

10. Split Waterman

11. Fred Williams

12. Aub Lawson

13. Trevor Redmond

14. Alan Hunt

15. Arthur Wright

16. Peter Craven

17. Ove Fundin

18. Ron Johnston

19. Jack Biggs

20. Tommy Price

 

1955

1. Ronnie Moore

2. Jack Young

3. Brian Crutcher

4. Peter Craven

5. Ove Fundin

6. Arthur Forrest

7. Barry Briggs

8. Olle Nygren

9. Arthur Wright

10. Alan Hunt

11. Billy Bales

12. Ken Sharples

13. Ron Johnston

14. Ron Mountford

15. Phil Clarke

16. Ken McKinlay

17. Eric Williams

18. Ron How

19. Fred Williams

20. Tommy Price

[Guest]

It is interesting how UK based the Stenner rating are and more international the Speedway Star ratings are.Don't suppose there would be much debate about the top riders apart from a place or two,but I was a little surprised that some of these relatively unknown(to me) riders were placed so high.Josef Kamper for instance and some of the Poles.Bet they wouldn't have been so high in the Stenner ratings.But this happens all the time.Get a British journalist rating the best footballers of all time and you would probably get more British players than when a German or Italian done the ratings.......

 

The inclusion of Finland's Timo Laine is probably another surprise. But i saw him riding several times in Holland (!!) and he was a class act and IMO deserves his placing. After retiring he became an international power boat racing performer.

[van wolfswinkel]

Shows how good Bjorn Knutson was, never outside the top 4 in the 60s, was my fav rider in the mid-60s when he was at West Am, and I watched him when living in London, then Briggo was me fav when I moved to Swindon in 68. Would be good to see rest of 60s ratings and when Mauger takes over from him as number 1.

Nordin, Harrfeldt, McKinlay, and Blueboy Booey also superb riders from that era. Remember West Am had a brilliant team when they won the league in 65.

Sad not to see Squibbo the New Cross Maestro in there!

Edited November 16, 2015 by santi salobre

[Guest]

It is interesting how UK based the Stenner rating are and more international the Speedway Star ratings are.Don't suppose there would be much debate about the top riders apart from a place or two,but I was a little surprised that some of these relatively unknown(to me) riders were placed so high.Josef Kamper for instance and some of the Poles.Bet they wouldn't have been so high in the Stenner ratings.But this happens all the time.Get a British journalist rating the best footballers of all time and you would probably get more British players than when a German or Italian done the ratings.......

 

A point we must bear in mind when debating the inclusion of riders like Josef Kamper in the world ratings: remember these were on material provided by many non-UK based experts and based on performances of riders on their own tracks rather than what they have done on tracks in Britain. That's why there is such a rich divergence of final rating places and that of some riders virtually unknown to UK supporters.

[iris123]

 

A point we must bear in mind when debating the inclusion of riders like Josef Kamper in the world ratings: remember these were on material provided by many non-UK based experts and based on performances of riders on their own tracks rather than what they have done on tracks in Britain. That's why there is such a rich divergence of final rating places and that of some riders virtually unknown to UK supporters.

Yes,i see that.That was what I was trying to point out.The Stenner ratings were very much based on UK performances by UK based riders.

 

Glad to see Keef has edited his post.Thught something was wrong that he hadn't mentioned Sarf London

[lucifer sam]

Norbold, have you noticed the almost exact match in most years between the No 1s from the Stenners and Speedway Star lists, and the discussion a few years ago between four or five of us about the respective Grand Prix champions from those years?

 

All the best

Rob

[van wolfswinkel]

Yes,i see that.That was what I was trying to point out.The Stenner ratings were very much based on UK performances by UK based riders.

 

Glad to see Keef has edited his post.Thught something was wrong that he hadn't mentioned Sarf London

And the best,and only club, in sarf-east London my son...Dulwich Amlet

[iris123]

And the best,and only club, in sarf-east London my son...Dulwich Amlet

I only went to the old ground once when Tooting & Mitcham played on a Boxing day derby.Went to the new ground when Millwall resrves had their home games there.Funnily enough a local Hamburg club now have a friendship with Dulwich and played there pre-season..........all off topic though

[van wolfswinkel]

I only went to the old ground once when Tooting & Mitcham played on a Boxing day derby.Went to the new ground when Millwall resrves had their home games there.Funnily enough a local Hamburg club now have a friendship with Dulwich and played there pre-season..........all off topic though

Tooting & Mitch, local rivals, black and white striped dirty side from sarf-west London. We shared Champion Hill with Corinthian Casuals, too posh to hate, all Oxbridge lads, apart from my Dad, a working-class geezer from Camberwell, who played left-back for them for a few seasons. We lived in Nunhead, between Amlet and The Wall, mainly went to Charlton Athletic. Didn't realise The Lions reserves played at the home of the pink n' blues. Dulwich get really good crowds now in the Ryman Premier, seems the in-thing to support them now , visited a few years ago, Sainsburys built them a new stadium, that holds about 20000 less than the old one.

[Guest]

Shows how good Bjorn Knutson was, never outside the top 4 in the 60s, was my fav rider in the mid-60s when he was at West Am, and I watched him when living in London, then Briggo was me fav when I moved to Swindon in 68. Would be good to see rest of 60s ratings and when Mauger takes over from him as number 1.

Nordin, Harrfeldt, McKinlay, and Blueboy Booey also superb riders from that era. Remember West Am had a brilliant team when they won the league in 65.

Sad not to see Squibbo the New Cross Maestro in there!

What are strong factors for you to support Jimmy Squibb - good and consistent rider that he was - in a World Top 20 list?

Just a few "interesting" points...

 

1. This is for the Peter Craven fans. Between Stenners and Speedway Star all years between 1946 and 1966 are covered with the exception of 1954 and 1955. Peter won the the World Championship in 1955 so it may have been his year to top the rankings? I did once compile my own rankings for those two years, based on averages, World Championship results, other big individual meetings, Test matches, etc. though I can't find them now. I think I had Ronnie Moore top in both years, but not sure.

 

2. Interesting to see Ron Johnson at no.2 in 1948/49, more than 20 years after first riding. It would be the equivalent of say, someone like Greg Hancock being ranked no.2 this year.....oh.....er.....

 

3. Jack Biggs down at no.10 for 1951, the year he so nearly won the World Title. So, in spite of the events of that night, justice was probably done with Youngie and Split finishing first and second.

 

4. Double World Champion, Fred Williams, never reaching higher than 4th.

 

Ron Johnson, who became a mate in the declining years of his speedway come-back from the mid-1950s - something he should not have done IMO - was absolutely superb in the 1948 and 1949 seasons. I was a teenager watching from the New Cross terraces then and was always surprised whenever a visitor managed to beat him 'dahn the Old Kent Road.'

[waiheke1]

Just a few "interesting" points...

 

1. This is for the Peter Craven fans. Between Stenners and Speedway Star all years between 1946 and 1966 are covered with the exception of 1954 and 1955. Peter won the the World Championship in 1955 so it may have been his year to top the rankings? I did once compile my own rankings for those two years, based on averages, World Championship results, other big individual meetings, Test matches, etc. though I can't find them now. I think I had Ronnie Moore top in both years, but not sure.

 

2. Interesting to see Ron Johnson at no.2 in 1948/49, more than 20 years after first riding. It would be the equivalent of say, someone like Greg Hancock being ranked no.2 this year.....oh.....er.....

 

3. Jack Biggs down at no.10 for 1951, the year he so nearly won the World Title. So, in spite of the events of that night, justice was probably done with Youngie and Split finishing first and second.

 

4. Double World Champion, Fred Williams, never reaching higher than 4th.

 

and a few points on those interesting points.

 

1. Craven would appear similar to Gundersen, who doesn't top my statistical rankings for any season (2nd five times, 3rd twice based on my almost completed figures). Truly world class riders, who had world class rivals who were slightly more dominant across all competitions. Both Craven and Gundersen were good enough to have been world champs under a GP series (though when we discussed this, some were of the view that Craven may never have been world champ under that format), but would likely have won less world titles than they did. Both riders of course had also careers tragically cut shot prematurely.

 

2. Yes indeed, would never happen these days... (though actually, I have Greg at 3rd in my rankings this year, with EMil taking 2nd spot).

 

3. comparable perhaps to Les Collins, so nearly world champ, who I ranked at 9th in 1982.

 

4. Aligns with common view that Williams was the "worst" double world champion of all time.

Same as,i am doing my research into the Huxley/Duggan era) onwards love doing it and with Norbold,Gustix, Custom(ect) i learn a fair bit plus on these threads i GENERALLY??? keep out of trouble i really enjoy these threads 300 pages Please!!!

agreed Sid, I find these topics fascinating. And you're right, you pretty much always stay at of trouble on the years gone by threads! this is the type of topic where i do really appreciate Gustix input (though I haven't seen any message of Barry Butterworth yet, and this was his era

[BOBBATH]

Indeed, gustix, the experts chosen to compile the ratings were from all over the world.

 

Just one thought did Eric Linden, Angus Kix, James Oldfield and Danny Carter all get one vote each!?

As us vets know -these were all Eric Linden pseudonyms-was he any other people in the Star also? Further who was Frank Drake reporting on Exeter speedway-assume it refers humorously to Sir Francis Drake?? And here was me, at the time thinking the Speedway Star had an army of journalists working for them Great thread this- however I prefer to go by Riders Averages as a better indicator of rank-think Fred Williams tended to be over rated- World champ on home track only-give me a break-ditto Tommy Price. If the World Final had been held elsewhere-not a chance. Glad Jim Squibb got a mention-born in 1921-he was still riding in the mid sixties-wot a rider-Capn'Jim we used to call him-he looked like a pirate(not that there's anything wrong with that!!)--that's a Seinfeld reference BTW-not sure if it was popular in England.

Thinking further on this -if World Final had been held at Exeter in mid sixties maybe Jim Squibb would have been World Champ!! Ditto Nigel Boocock at Coventry, George Hunter at Edinburgh and for sure Charlie Monk at Glasgow!! Sadly not to be.

[stratton]

As us vets know -these were all Eric Linden pseudonyms-was he any other people in the Star also? Further who was Frank Drake reporting on Exeter speedway-assume it refers humorously to Sir Francis Drake?? And here was me, at the time thinking the Speedway Star had an army of journalists working for them Great thread this- however I prefer to go by Riders Averages as a better indicator of rank-think Fred Williams tended to be over rated- World champ on home track only-give me a break-ditto Tommy Price. If the World Final had been held elsewhere-not a chance. Glad Jim Squibb got a mention-born in 1921-he was still riding in the mid sixties-wot a rider-Capn'Jim we used to call him-he looked like a pirate(not that there's anything wrong with that!!)--that's a Seinfeld reference BTW-not sure if it was popular in England.Thinking further on this -if World Final had been held at Exeter in mid sixties maybe Jim Squibb would have been World Champ!! Ditto Nigel Boocock at Coventry, George Hunter at Edinburgh and for sure Charlie Monk at Glasgow!! Sadly not to be.

I think maybe you are a tad harsh on Freddie i actually believe he was often overlooked when the great champions are mentioned.I say that because winning on home soil often brought a real pressure and for him to win it twice and be a runner up was quite a record.I see what you are saying though "Bobbath" could say for (ex) a fit Carter win it at Bradford in 1985 to win a homer really brings alot of pressure with it.

[waiheke1]

No soup for you Bob bath!

Are you master of your domain?

The water was very cold Jerry!

They're real, and they're spectacular!

Dolores!

[stratton]

and a few points on those interesting points.

 

1. Craven would appear similar to Gundersen, who doesn't top my statistical rankings for any season (2nd five times, 3rd twice based on my almost completed figures). Truly world class riders, who had world class rivals who were slightly more dominant across all competitions. Both Craven and Gundersen were good enough to have been world champs under a GP series (though when we discussed this, some were of the view that Craven may never have been world champ under that format), but would likely have won less world titles than they did. Both riders of course had also careers tragically cut shot prematurely.

 

2. Yes indeed, would never happen these days... (though actually, I have Greg at 3rd in my rankings this year, with EMil taking 2nd spot).

 

3. comparable perhaps to Les Collins, so nearly world champ, who I ranked at 9th in 1982.

 

4. Aligns with common view that Williams was the "worst" double world champion of all time.

agreed Sid, I find these topics fascinating. And you're right, you pretty much always stay at of trouble on the years gone by threads! this is the type of topic where i do really appreciate Gustix input (though I haven't seen any message of Barry Butterworth yet, and this was his era

Cant wait to see your 1980s ratings it should be a great read,i have been researching the 1983 results and your comment about Lee is dead right he was a tad inconsistent took a while to get settled at Poole.But the last two months there was some brilliance from him i have to say Muller was brilliant on the day.I have watched that Final endless times i just wish Billy had of been a bit tougher on Egon in there race.

[Guest]

 

I find these topics fascinating. And you're right, you pretty much always stay at of trouble on the years gone by threads! this is the type of topic where i do really appreciate Gustix input (though I haven't seen any message of Barry Butterworth yet, and this was his era

 

Here's a reference to Barry Butterworth. You may be interested to see that careerwise before concentrating on sprint cars and midget cars that he was also a junior solo speedway rider.

http://www.barrybutterworthracing.com/

Edited November 17, 2015 by Guest

[BOBBATH]

No soup for you Bob bath!

Are you master of your domain?

The water was very cold Jerry!

They're real, and they're spectacular!

Dolores!

Thanx waihekeaces started my morning with a good laugh-just so you know-my real name is Crazy Joe Divolo

[The White Knight]

As us vets know -these were all Eric Linden pseudonyms-was he any other people in the Star also? Further who was Frank Drake reporting on Exeter speedway-assume it refers humorously to Sir Francis Drake?? And here was me, at the time thinking the Speedway Star had an army of journalists working for them Great thread this- however I prefer to go by Riders Averages as a better indicator of rank-think Fred Williams tended to be over rated- World champ on home track only-give me a break-ditto Tommy Price. If the World Final had been held elsewhere-not a chance. Glad Jim Squibb got a mention-born in 1921-he was still riding in the mid sixties-wot a rider-Capn'Jim we used to call him-he looked like a pirate(not that there's anything wrong with that!!)--that's a Seinfeld reference BTW-not sure if it was popular in England.

Thinking further on this -if World Final had been held at Exeter in mid sixties maybe Jim Squibb would have been World Champ!! Ditto Nigel Boocock at Coventry, George Hunter at Edinburgh and for sure Charlie Monk at Glasgow!! Sadly not to be.

Jim Squibb was still riding in the Seventies. For Eastbourne if I remember correctly in the National League Division Two.

 

Unless there was another Jimmy Squibb?

Edited November 17, 2015 by The White Knight