Rob VDS Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 This is not a gripe or a moan and Poole won fair and square.(and it will not stop me going)I am just trying to give an example why fans get p/d off. Facts Pooles reserves are a big reason why they finished top of the league.Pooles reserves won them the play off final out scoring Belle vues reserves by 29 to 10 over the 2 legs Now the so called rules of the FT system any team who has a reserve that proves himself to be one of the best performers in the Elite league(be it right or be it wrong its the rule) get penalised the following year by having a lower 2nd draft pick.I would think the idea behind this is to give every club a fair chance of some success. Now the part that ps people off starts.Remember just using the to 2 clubs as an example other clubs will have their own problems with the draft. By keeping the same draft rules that have been in affect all year due to their Elite league performances Newman was placed 2nd and Worrall 5th on the draft list(both teams choose to protect their assets in the 1st round draft) so Poole get 7th pick and Belle vue get 4th pick of the 2nd tier draft riders no one has a problem with that because they have been the rules all season. Now the problem starts they decide that the old rules are out and decide to use Prem league averages for the draft list positions.What this does is that it now places Worrall at no 2 and Newman drops to no 6 now giving Poole 2nd pick and Belle vue 7th pick this now gives Poole Ellis and Belle vue waiting to pick a much lower ranked rider and now that all team members count in the teams averages it also gives poole 0.72 more than Belle vue for top 5 team building.So this goes against all the previous rules of the draft system which was to try and keep teams even having seen what Pooles reserve did against Belle vues in the final it now makes Poole even stronger and Belle vue weaker. Now looking at this as a speedway fan and not a Poole fan can you see why people get a little p/d off with the powers that be in the sport. Yep 100% fair comment. Even with my Pirate tinted glasses on I can't explain that. Didn't poole protect Kyle anyway as their own asset? If this is the case then and then still got 1st or 2nd pick of tier 2 then yes, poole have done well out of these picks. But credit should go to Ford for being aware of the situation as he usually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Does the same thing apply to Kerr and Rose at Kings Lynn?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Yep 100% fair comment. Even with my Pirate tinted glasses on I can't explain that. Didn't poole protect Kyle anyway as their own asset? If this is the case then and then still got 1st or 2nd pick of tier 2 then yes, poole have done well out of these picks. But credit should go to Ford for being aware of the situation as he usually is. Don't think anyone has a problem with Kyle getting protected as a Poole asset, it's the daft use of PL averages (thus placing him a lot lower in the tier 1 list than his EL performances over the past two years would deserve). I think the issue with Ford isn't so much he was "aware" of the situation, but suspicion of his role in creating the favourable situation for Poole in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 It was heartening to hear Buster talking about his new appointment last night. when ask what are his intentions for the future. He replied, 'I want to bring Honesty and Integrity to the table, but most of all I want there to be a connection with the fans.' ( To me that sentence speaks volumes, If he intend to bring these to the table then obviously they're not there at present........ The mind boggles) There are no air and graces with this man, he says it like it is. and that wonderful to see. I am in no doubt he will be a big success and make a big impression........ . Great. Let's just hope he finds an electrician that can change a fuse in less than three days so he doesn't have to cancel any more meetings in dodgy circumstances himself. Nothing like setting a good example. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob VDS Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Don't think anyone has a problem with Kyle getting protected as a Poole asset, it's the daft use of PL averages (thus placing him a lot lower in the tier 1 list than his EL performances over the past two years would deserve). I think the issue with Ford isn't so much he was "aware" of the situation, but suspicion of his role in creating the favourable situation for Poole in the first place. If that is the case then why are the other promoters allowing him to do this? Surely it is something that has to be agreed. I refuse to believe that if Ford says he wants something then the other promoters have to he just accept it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Great. Let's just hope he finds an electrician that can change a fuse in less than three days so he doesn't have to cancel any more meetings in dodgy circumstances himself. Nothing like setting a good example. Â Also, never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Makes a wonderful opportunity for comment like the above..... Â Â Yep 100% fair comment. Even with my Pirate tinted glasses on I can't explain that. Didn't poole protect Kyle anyway as their own asset? If this is the case then and then still got 1st or 2nd pick of tier 2 then yes, poole have done well out of these picks. But credit should go to Ford for being aware of the situation as he usually is. Â The idea of the 'Draft system' was first introduced as a leveller, where the lowest place team gets first choice, giving them the opportunity to straighten their side. The strongest team always gets the last pick. Â But the BSPA take on this, is to allow the top team to have first choice........ You couldn't make it up....... Surely even the die-hard fans of Poole can see this is totally wrong...... Â Probably not............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Also, never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Makes a wonderful opportunity for comment like the above..... Â Â Â Â The idea of the 'Draft system' was first introduced as a leveller, where the lowest place team gets first choice, giving them the opportunity to straighten their side. The strongest team always gets the last pick. Â But the BSPA take on this, is to allow the top team to have first choice........ You couldn't make it up....... Surely even the die-hard fans of Poole can see this is totally wrong...... Â Probably not............ Â The draft has been unfair since its inception and KL benefitted massively in the first year with Lewis and Lewis, last year it was Poole and Coventry and this year it looks like Wolves, Leicester and Poole (thus far). The while thing was ill-conceived and poorly executed - like everything the BSPA come up with! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 The draft has been unfair since its inception and KL benefitted massively in the first year with Lewis and Lewis, last year it was Poole and Coventry and this year it looks like Wolves, Leicester and Poole (thus far). The while thing was ill-conceived and poorly executed - like everything the BSPA come up with! And Poole have benefitted from it every time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 there's so much secretcy cuz they've fudged it again, if it was open and transparent us fans would realise how they make things up , just to appease a certain club    lets see what promoter drafted these rules  lets see what promoter voted for and against said rules  lets see who buster chapman defeated to be bspa chairman  lets see who voted for and against mr chapman.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 If that is the case then why are the other promoters allowing him to do this? Surely it is something that has to be agreed. I refuse to believe that if Ford says he wants something then the other promoters have to he just accept it. I think over the years we have seen " a you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" mentality regarding certain promotions. We obviously don't know what horse trading is done, but there are clearly some promoters who work closely together. I'm sure the Poole asset list gives them a fair amount of leverage. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRobin Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 FTDR is a nonsense now! Kyle Howarth who was riding in the 1 - 5 last season is now a reserve at Wolves. I always thought it was a money saving thing but surely now they must be getting better pay for Kyle to ride at reserve. It almost seems as tho' speedway goes out of it's way to put fans off. I am seriously considering whether they will see my money next season. there's so much secretcy cuz they've fudged it again, if it was open and transparent us fans would realise how they make things up , just to appease a certain club    lets see what promoter drafted these rules  lets see what promoter voted for and against said rules  lets see who buster chapman defeated to be bspa chairman  lets see who voted for and against mr chapman.... You won't even see these under the 30 year rule. Even governments are more open than the BSPA! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Can anyone give me a reason why all of a sudden the BSPA decided to use Prem league averages to work out a riders position on the draft list instead of the system they have used for the last 2 years.The only changes were Garrity and Birks.There would have been no arguments with Howarth taking over the top spot vacated by Garrity and Sargent being in top spot in tier 2 on the last green sheet moving up to replace Birks.So i can see no reason why they had to change.Looking at the last green sheet the riders positions on that list would have given a much fairer 1st draft pick.So i can see no valid reason why they had to change it. Â Second question if they used the riders prem averages why was Sargent moved up to tier 1 when Starke who stayed in tier 2 had a 1 point higher average in the Prem league none of it makes much sence to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Panda Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 there's so much secretcy cuz they've fudged it again, if it was open and transparent us fans would realise how they make things up , just to appease a certain club    lets see what promoter drafted these rules  lets see what promoter voted for and against said rules  lets see who buster chapman defeated to be bspa chairman  lets see who voted for and against mr chapman.... So its ok for other teams to protect their assets ie King's Lynn to protect Kerr as an asset every season and not ok for Poole to protect Newman as a Poole asset in the draft is that what you are saying...............  I think you will find that Neil Vatcher is the one behind sorting out the draft (or at least he was last year) so you cannot blame Poole for that..........  I doubt we will ever know who else was in the running for it now get off Poole and Matt Ford's case because all teams agree the draft rules and they are not geared to favour one team.......  For the record as Kyle Howarth has held a main team place for goodness knows how long why is he now allowed to be a draft reserve........  And the averages used are converted PL averages............  RP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob VDS Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Can anyone give me a reason why all of a sudden the BSPA decided to use Prem league averages to work out a riders position on the draft list instead of the system they have used for the last 2 years.The only changes were Garrity and Birks.There would have been no arguments with Howarth taking over the top spot vacated by Garrity and Sargent being in top spot in tier 2 on the last green sheet moving up to replace Birks.So i can see no reason why they had to change.Looking at the last green sheet the riders positions on that list would have given a much fairer 1st draft pick.So i can see no valid reason why they had to change it. Â Second question if they used the riders prem averages why was Sargent moved up to tier 1 when Starke who stayed in tier 2 had a 1 point higher average in the Prem league none of it makes much sence to me. I don't know but as a shot in the dark would the fact their EL averages could be deemed unrealistic as half their programmed rides were against other reserves. Â I don't even know if that makes sense to be honest but I'll throw it out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 And Poole have benefitted from it every time Kindly explain how Poole benefitted in 2014?? Newman (protected as a Poole asset) plus a succession of - no disrespect - no-hopers?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) More stench than Billingsgate Market! Edited November 7, 2015 by Steve0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.V 72 Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 I don't know but as a shot in the dark would the fact their EL averages could be deemed unrealistic as half their programmed rides were against other reserves. Â I don't even know if that makes sense to be honest but I'll throw it out there. I agree the use of their Elite league averages would seem unrealistic. I dont even know how they have worked out their draft list positions for the last 2 years but looking at the last green sheet list it seems to give a more realistic account of their Elite league performances than their Prem league average does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy robin Posted November 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 So its ok for other teams to protect their assets ie King's Lynn to protect Kerr as an asset every season and not ok for Poole to protect Newman as a Poole asset in the draft is that what you are saying............... Â I think you will find that Neil Vatcher is the one behind sorting out the draft (or at least he was last year) so you cannot blame Poole for that.......... Â I doubt we will ever know who else was in the running for it now get off Poole and Matt Ford's case because all teams agree the draft rules and they are not geared to favour one team....... Â For the record as Kyle Howarth has held a main team place for goodness knows how long why is he now allowed to be a draft reserve........ Â And the averages used are converted PL averages............ Â RP Nobody has argued I think with Poole protecting Kyle as far as I know but just the fact that both the last 2 seasons he was lower in the list than his performances deserve. Â This made sure Poole got a better 2nd pick in 2015 & will do again in 2016. Â Kyle Howarth is one of the youngest reserves in 2016 so why not help him in his career like they do in Poland. I agree the use of their Elite league averages would seem unrealistic. I dont even know how they have worked out their draft list positions for the last 2 years but looking at the last green sheet list it seems to give a more realistic account of their Elite league performances than their Prem league average does. It would have been easy to only use the rides they had excluding the reserves races & work their average from their. Â James Sargent is the strange one in tier one where he averaged less than Paul Starke in the Premier League, so that is really hard to work out. Â Anyway I'm sure as soon as the heatleaders & 2nd string lists are announced it will give us something else to laugh about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Panda Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Nobody has argued I think with Poole protecting Kyle as far as I know but just the fact that both the last 2 seasons he was lower in the list than his performances deserve.  This made sure Poole got a better 2nd pick in 2015 & will do again in 2016.  Kyle Howarth is one of the youngest reserves in 2016 so why not help him in his career like they do in Poland.  It would have been easy to only use the rides they had excluding the reserves races & work their average from their.  James Sargent is the strange one in tier one where he averaged less than Paul Starke in the Premier League, so that is really hard to work out.  Anyway I'm sure as soon as the heatleaders & 2nd string lists are announced it will give us something else to laugh about. At the time in 2015 we did not know much about Paul Starke at all.........it turned out he was a great pick but it did not start out like that  Kyle Howarth may be one of the youngest reserves I have no issue with that but why is he in the draft now when he has been in the main team of several teams over the last few years.........and done reasonably well as well..............  RP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 u  I think you will find that Neil Vatcher is the one behind sorting out the draft (or at least he was last year) so you cannot blame Poole for that..........   RP Here we go again. Once more you use supposition instead of fact. You "think" Neil Vatcher did the draft this year so therefore we can't blame Poole for it. Have you got a link to say who actually did the draft ( if indeed there even was one ) or if this another one of your thoughts that turn into facts in your mind ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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