Martin Vaculik Not In Sgp 2016

[1 valve]

Not really in the GP.

what "not really in the GP"?

[SCB]

what "not really in the GP"?

The winner of a GP wins about £8000. That has to pay for atleast a mechanic, travel for two to the meeting, accommodation for at least 1nights accommodation.

 

Even if you win every GP that's about £80,000. Throw in cheap hotels and cheap flights and you've spent about £1200 so pretty negligible. So £80,000 for you and your mechanic. Oh and your engine tuner! To win a GP it takes more than 1 mechanic too. So suddenly split 4 ways you're all earning 20k at best.

 

The engine tuner is laughing as he could have 3 or 4 riders in the GP though.

 

Now try finding middle of the pack. And you're not making much money at all!

[PHILIPRISING]

The winner of a GP wins about £8000. That has to pay for atleast a mechanic, travel for two to the meeting, accommodation for at least 1nights accommodation.

 

Even if you win every GP that's about £80,000. Throw in cheap hotels and cheap flights and you've spent about £1200 so pretty negligible. So £80,000 for you and your mechanic. Oh and your engine tuner! To win a GP it takes more than 1 mechanic too. So suddenly split 4 ways you're all earning 20k at best.

 

The engine tuner is laughing as he could have 3 or 4 riders in the GP though.

 

Now try finding middle of the pack. And you're not making much money at all!

YOU'VE left sponsorship out of that equation

[Humphrey Appleby]

YOU'VE left sponsorship out of that equation

 

That's arguably not linked to the number of meetings though. Would sponsorship be any less if there were (say) 8 rather than 12 meetings?

[fullbore]

That's arguably not linked to the number of meetings though. Would sponsorship be any less if there were (say) 8 rather than 12 meetings?

Quirw likely, less TV exposure...

 

Niamh

[1 valve]

 

That's arguably not linked to the number of meetings though. Would sponsorship be any less if there were (say) 8 rather than 12 meetings?

Sponsorship for riders increases if they are a GP rider over and above the actual meetings. that is to say, by being a GP rider your level of sponsorship throughout the season in all of the countries you ride is improved.

As opposed to looking at the return/earnings from one GP meeting the more accurate way is to say "how much would my total net earnings drop if I was not a GP rider?

[Trees]

YOU'VE left sponsorship out of that equation

Shouldn't that be a bonus really? The authorities think not

[Humphrey Appleby]

As opposed to looking at the return/earnings from one GP meeting the more accurate way is to say "how much would my total net earnings drop if I was not a GP rider?

 

Sure, but does their sponsorship by virtue of being a GP rider change in any way if there were only 8 or 10 rather than 12 GPs? If you're running at an operational loss just by turning-up to a GP, then more meetings are not more chance to earn money.

 

Of course Philippe always mentions rider sponsorship to justify the poor prize money, but are all the riders really doing that well out it?

[iris123]

 

Sure, but does their sponsorship by virtue of being a GP rider change in any way if there were only 8 or 10 rather than 12 GPs? If you're running at an operational loss just by turning-up to a GP, then more meetings are not more chance to earn money.

 

Of course Philippe always mentions rider sponsorship to justify the poor prize money, but are all the riders really doing that well out it?

I wonder how many examples there are of riders losing sponsorship when they have dropped out of the GPs by failing to get into the top 8 or wildcard etc?

[PHILIPRISING]

 

Sure, but does their sponsorship by virtue of being a GP rider change in any way if there were only 8 or 10 rather than 12 GPs? If you're running at an operational loss just by turning-up to a GP, then more meetings are not more chance to earn money.

 

Of course Philippe always mentions rider sponsorship to justify the poor prize money, but are all the riders really doing that well out it?

As I am sure you are aware I have never attempted to justify the prize money. However, it would wrong to ignore the fact that many riders, though certainly not all, benefit from some lucrative sponsorship on the back on their SGP appearances and the subsequent TV exposure.

[oldace]

 

Sure, but does their sponsorship by virtue of being a GP rider change in any way if there were only 8 or 10 rather than 12 GPs? If you're running at an operational loss just by turning-up to a GP, then more meetings are not more chance to earn money.

 

Of course Philippe always mentions rider sponsorship to justify the poor prize money, but are all the riders really doing that well out it?

A point you have laboured for many years and by now, if there was any merit in your assertion, the SGP would be dead in the water. Taking Emil out, and we all know why he isn't in the SGP, where is this rider revolt that would 100% certainly have happened if riders were not making money.

 

Why is Chris Harris desperate year on year to be in, he knows he will be languishing in the bottom couple of places but he still wants to compete, is it because he has a fortune stashed away and needs a way to burn through it?.

[PHILIPRISING]

THERE'S another reason, of course, and that is that most riders, Emil being the notable exception, desperately want to compete at the highest level and for the most part in arenas that are beyond the scope of ordinary riders.

 

I have yet to meet any rider who has ridden at Cardiff who wasn't totally knocked out by the experience and absolutely loved the occasion, atmosphere and sheer thrill of it all.

 

Ambition is a key ingredient for so many when they start their careers and climb the ladder of success. Not all will get to the top rung, naturally, but it's still there for Chris Harris and when he finally retires and sits down reflecting on his career it will be Cardiff in 2007 and even the other SGPs that he didn't win that will live longer in the memory than what money he did or didn't make.

[Humphrey Appleby]

A point you have laboured for many years and by now, if there was any merit in your assertion, the SGP would be dead in the water. Taking Emil out, and we all know why he isn't in the SGP, where is this rider revolt that would 100% certainly have happened if riders were not making money.

 

Philippe has pointed out reasons why riders would do it, and of course, maybe some riders do it in the expectation of earning better money at some point in future.

 

But the discussion actually started about whether more GPs means more opportunity to earn more money. If the money is actually in the sponsorship, then the question is what's the optimal number of GPs need to leverage that?

Ambition is a key ingredient for so many when they start their careers and climb the ladder of success. Not all will get to the top rung, naturally, but it's still there for Chris Harris and when he finally retires and sits down reflecting on his career it will be Cardiff in 2007 and even the other SGPs that he didn't win that will live longer in the memory than what money he did or didn't make.

 

Hmmm... the 2007 win yes, but when he's huddled in front of a three bar fire in his old age, will he really be reflecting on all those 16th places?

[PHILIPRISING]

 

Philippe has pointed out reasons why riders would do it, and of course, maybe some riders do it in the expectation of earning better money at some point in future.

 

But the discussion actually started about whether more GPs means more opportunity to earn more money. If the money is actually in the sponsorship, then the question is what's the optimal number of GPs need to leverage that?

 

Hmmm... the 2007 win yes, but when he's huddled in front of a three bar fire in his old age, will he really be reflecting on all those 16th places?

I THINK he will be proud, and rightly so, that he competed in as many GPs as he did.

[Humphrey Appleby]

I THINK he will be proud, and rightly so, that he competed in as many GPs as he did.

 

Helped of course by how many wildcard nominations because the series needed a Brit?

[SCB]

 

Helped of course by how many wildcard nominations because the series needed a Brit?

He's qualified more than most riders (any rider who has qualified once gets to claim that) so yes, I think when he's old and retired and sat chatting to the great grand kids he'll be right to be proud of what he's achieved in the sport.

[1 valve]

I wonder how many examples there are of riders losing sponsorship when they have dropped out of the GPs by failing to get into the top 8 or wildcard etc?

It is not that a rider loses sponsorship because he is not in the GP's (though I'm sure it happens as sponsors move their support to a qualified rider) more that sponsors pay more because the rider is in the GP's and the extra exposure that comes wit it. BTW, I am not referring to the small local business linked to the team a rider races for, but those global/international brands where such exposure it measured by the sponsors in column inches and TV exposure.

[fullbore]

Helped of course by how many wildcard nominations because the series needed a Brit?

Fewer than AJ...

 

Niamh

[OveFundinFan]

That may be true Niamh, but lets remember .....

 

AJ has done 14 full GP years and finished a 2nd, 4th, 5th and a 6th, and 4 years has had a average in excess of 10 points per meeting

 

CH has done 8 full years - highest position 6th overall in 2010 when he averaged 9.73 per meeting

 

fact is, AJ can still cut and thrust with the top guys hence 9 GP wins (CH 1), and AJ has made at least 1 GP final per season except for 2013,

Chris has only made a GP final in 50% of his GP years

 

Like I said earlier post, its like comparing chalk with cheese.​

 

and I do like CHarris riding style and he is a racer, and I can only imagine what he must have been like in 2007, but there again that is 8 years ago.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Joe Hatton

[SCB]

That may be true Niamh, but lets remember .....

 

AJ has done 14 full GP years and finished a 2nd, 4th, 5th and a 6th, and 4 years has had a average in excess of 10 points per meeting

 

CH has done 8 full years - highest position 6th overall in 2010 when he averaged 9.73 per meeting

 

fact is, AJ can still cut and thrust with the top guys hence 9 GP wins (CH 1), and AJ has made at least 1 GP final per season except for 2013,

Chris has only made a GP final in 50% of his GP years

 

Like I said earlier post, its like comparing chalk with cheese.​

 

and I do like CHarris riding style and he is a racer, and I can only imagine what he must have been like in 2007, but there again that is 8 years ago.

And what were Hans Nielsen and Tony Rickardssons averages? A lot higher than both but I'd not be calling for them to ride in the GP series. There no doubting AJ has in the past been a genuine GP rider, a rider who has IMO at least deserves his place. but his record from 2000 to 2013 is pretty irrelevant. You can only look at someones most recent season and possibly the one before to see if this year was just a bad one for some reason.

 

Harris has qualified, for that season he could be the worst rider in the World in all but 3(?) meetings in 2015 but he has done it. It can't be argued. Dawid Kujawa did the same in 2001 at U21 level. A nothing rider, nobody outside of Poland had heard of him, I think it was Crump who was commentating on Sky who was shocked to hear they both rode for the same club in Poland. But he won a World U21 title that season because on the day, he stepped up.

 

It's not about comparing AJ with Harris. It's about comparing AJ with the 100s of rider who also failed to qualify for the GP series. You can exclude all but about 10 riders straight away anyway for all manner of reasons.

 

Out of curiosity, had Emil decided last week he wanted to be GP rider, which of the 4 (Hampel, Kildemand, Lindback and AJ) would you have dropped for him?