Grachan Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 The point is, that was a different year. What happened in 79 is irrelevant to what happened in 80.. likewise 2014 and 2015. Ivan Mauger was world class for almost his entire career, in 1980 he wasn't as good as previous years. That's not diminishing him at all, just the truth. With Ermolenko I said 1993 Ermolenko.. he was 11+ that year Plenty of riders made 11+ under the old system, but of the riders I've seen only Neilsen would, in my opinion, be just as dominant if the current system had been in place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Would that be the same Ivan Mauger that spent the majority of the 1980 season as reigning World Champion? Not sure Chris Harris did that in 2015. Tai Woffinden was reigning World Champion in 2014 but he still only averaged a little over 7. Why could Ivan not be the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Tai Woffinden was reigning World Champion in 2014 but he still only averaged a little over 7. Why could Ivan not be the same? Quite possibly. Not Neilsen though. There was nothing like Nielsen in league racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Quite possibly. Not Neilsen though. There was nothing like Nielsen in league racing. Says Grachan, loyal Swindon fan, through gritted teeth. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Quite possibly. Not Neilsen though. There was nothing like Nielsen in league racing. Have to agree with that. Anyone who average 11.83(?) in the old format would probably get 11 in any format. The guy was clearly a machine at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Says Grachan, loyal Swindon fan, through gritted teeth. All the best Rob I was always a bit of a closet Neilsen fan, if the truth be known. The guy was out of this World, which is why I always feel he under performed in World Finals. Have to agree with that. Anyone who average 11.83(?) in the old format would probably get 11 in any format. The guy was clearly a machine at that time. And got a 12.00 away average in the same year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Plenty of riders made 11+ under the old system, but of the riders I've seen only Neilsen would, in my opinion, be just as dominant if the current system had been in place. Couldn't agree more! Having followed Hans Nielsen throughout his Oxford years (1984-1992) as well as abroad nobody came near him as he just dominated the scene. A class act who could team ride with the best of them. If the GPs had been around during the middle late eighties he would have swept the board! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Regarding 11+, does anyone know how many times an 11+ average has been achieved since the nominated heat was brought in? I know Ermolenko did it in 93.. and I think Jason Crump managed it? I'd have thought Nielsen would have done it too at least once, if not more? Any others? Edited November 4, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Couldn't agree more! Having followed Hans Nielsen throughout his Oxford years (1984-1992) as well as abroad nobody came near him as he just dominated the scene. A class act who could team ride with the best of them. If the GPs had been around during the middle late eighties he would have swept the board! Hi Steve! I used to think that when the GPs first started under the knockout system, that Hans would win all his qualifying heats. Gundersen, meanwhile, would struggle through via the eliminators and then beat him in the final! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Hi Steve! I used to think that when the GPs first started under the knockout system, that Hans would win all his qualifying heats. Gundersen, meanwhile, would struggle through via the eliminators and then beat him in the final! Possibly so but I do think that all things considered Nielsen would overcome and stamp his authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Regarding 11+, does anyone know how many times an 11+ average has been achieved since the nominated heat was brought in? I know Ermolenko did it in 93.. and I think Jason Crump managed it? Any others? Nielsen in 1988 was 11.00. He had two major wobbles that year - both at Oxford. Against Coventry, he scored just 7 from 6 (when the ref was a numpty), and just 6 from 4 vs Swindon at Cowley when he suffered two e/fs. His away average that season was still around 11.20-11.30 from what I recall. In 1989, I think he was 10.97. He was 11.30+ until Erik Gundersen's accident in mid-September, then his form dipped a bit. Crumpie managed it in 2006. All the best Rob Edited November 4, 2015 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 So just 3 people have done it since 1988? Jason Crump, Sam Ermolenko and Hans Nielsen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) So just 3 people have done it since 1988? Jason Crump, Sam Ermolenko and Hans Nielsen? Yup, I believe so. I think Rickardsson's best season was 2002, and he got up to something like 10.90. All the best Rob EDIT: Confirmed from the excellent WWOS speedway stats site that TR never quite got there: 1991..Ipswich..22..109..209..13..8.15..1F 1992..Ipswich..27..133..259..18..8.33..2F..1P 1993..Ipswich..35..190..417..11..9.01..1F..2P 1994..Ipswich..2..10..23..2..10.00..1P 1997..Ipswich..13..67..163..6..10.09..1P 1998..Ipswich..46..255..618.5..41..10.35..3F..9P 1999..King's Lynn..34..181..416..20..9.64..4F..4P 2001..Poole..35..171..393..20..9.66..3F..3P 2002..Poole..35..186..500..6..10.88..11F..1P 2003..Poole..32..159..364..19..9.64..1F..3P 2004..Poole..11..54..136..11..10.89..1F..2P 2005..Arena Essex..7..35..86..2..10.06..1P 2006..Oxford..7..34..83..0..9.76..1F Read more: http://wwosbackup.proboards.com/thread/2468#ixzz3qXB3SJ3y Edited November 4, 2015 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I was just looking on that site too, its brilliant. I guess it shows what a tough thing it is to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Yup, I believe so. I think Rickardsson's best season was 2002, and he got up to something like 10.90. All the best Rob EDIT: Confirmed from the excellent WWOS speedway stats site that TR never quite got there: 1991..Ipswich..22..109..209..13..8.15..1F 1992..Ipswich..27..133..259..18..8.33..2F..1P 1993..Ipswich..35..190..417..11..9.01..1F..2P 1994..Ipswich..2..10..23..2..10.00..1P 1997..Ipswich..13..67..163..6..10.09..1P 1998..Ipswich..46..255..618.5..41..10.35..3F..9P 1999..King's Lynn..34..181..416..20..9.64..4F..4P 2001..Poole..35..171..393..20..9.66..3F..3P 2002..Poole..35..186..500..6..10.88..11F..1P 2003..Poole..32..159..364..19..9.64..1F..3P 2004..Poole..11..54..136..11..10.89..1F..2P 2005..Arena Essex..7..35..86..2..10.06..1P 2006..Oxford..7..34..83..0..9.76..1F Fell quite a bit short in fact but I accept it apparently became more difficult with the continuously changing race formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Off the top of my head. And it was one of the biggest 12 individual meetings in the world that year e.g. the equivalent of a Grand Prix. He had an outstanding year. It would be interesting to see the list of riders he beat on the World Championship trail - Olsen, Autrey and Mauger at the ICF for starters. Again off the top of my head. Ironically you've picked the one year that JD really was World Class. All the best Rob Davis I ranked 13th in the world in 80. as you say, his best ever season. world class - perhaps in that one season (and at a push in 85 when he was again in the top 20), but over the whole of his career, no. I would be interested to know where Waikeace has Batch ranked for 2014. There were times during that season when he actually performed. Batch of 2015 was almost universally cr*p. When they are demolishing the Abbey and wondering who that bloke still going round the track is, it's Batch completing his final ride of the Swindon v BV play-off match. Although one point is that Batch followed up with 20 points in Denmark with 3 (?) at Cardiff. Whereas JD was a consistent performer in every round of the World Championship of 1980. Hence his presence in the final. All the best Rob i had Batch at 45th, a couple of places below Bomber. Plenty of riders made 11+ under the old system, but of the riders I've seen only Neilsen would, in my opinion, be just as dominant if the current system had been in place. as subsequently pointed out, actually only three riders did it after the nominated heat came in in 88. Yes, I'd already mentioned the 1985 British (Super) League. Again, look back, it was BWitcher who brought in averages, I believe he was recycling his argument from another thread and it wasn't entirely appropriate here when no-one had actually mentioned averages until he popped up with it. My argument was the riders that Bwitcher said could be perceived as mediocre. Let's look at the Grahame brothers. Andy Grahame won the British Final at a time that was mega-difficult to win and pushed Hans Nielsen for top spot at Birmingham in 1981 and 1982. While Alan Grahame was the rock of the so-successful Cradley Heathens. When the Heathens won the league in '81, their top scorer that season wasn't Penhall or Gundersen. It was Alan Grahame, who never missed a match. There's nothing even slightly mediocre about those sort of riders. Nothing at all. And yet I probably would call Troy Batchelor mediocre. His performance in the Swindon vs Belle Vue meeting was all the evidence you need. Compare it with the photo of Big Al from 1980, plastered head-to-toe after giving his all to triumph in the Grand Prix Final at Wimbledon. All the best Rob Alan Grahame I was surprised, I have ranked top 20 in the world from 81-84 (though never top 10). Andy on the other hand was only in the top 20 once, that in 82. Yes he won the British Final (but so did Steve Bastable the year before), and was arguably world class in 82. but otherwise, was he really that much better than say Craig Cook? again though, we're not saying the Grahame's were mediocre. Just that under a different heat format, perception would have been that they were nowhere near as good as we preceive them under the BL pre 88 format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 I think this thread is about the best USA rider ever. Now that's a subjective question! For me, Hancock has shown his consistency and as an ambassador and exempler to others there is no-one to match him. Those that criticise for the fact he achieves only because he makes great starts (which is not down to luck of course) need to see this years GP series where he has frequently come from the back, including last to first in Aus. His lack of serious injuries - whilst there is a strong luck element of course, (definition of accident), there are things riders can do to minimise the risk and Greg has proven to be very skillful in this regard. Other riders people remeber as greats, such as Mauger, Fundin, Briggs, Nielsen, Rickardsson, Lee, Jessup, P Collins, Simmons and others also had long periods without injuries. For me, there are a few USA riders I'd highlight - Autrey, Ermolenko, Penhall, Sigalos and Hancock. Autrey kind of paved the way for USA riders to compete in Europe which got the ball rolling. Ermolenko had strong periods of dominence and could have won more than one title, especially if he'd remained injury free so has to be up there. Sigalos too looked set to get better and better until injury affected. Penhall of course won two world titles but I'd place him below Hancock (Les Collins was very unlucky not to win in 1982) because Greg has been at the top, on and off the track for so long, on any surface, length or location of track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybishop Posted July 15, 2020 Report Share Posted July 15, 2020 Rekindle your love and join virtual skid tomorrow at 7pm when for one night only the Heathens and the Bees return to track..... 15 race, 2 VTMs, 1 winner.... unknow result.. For one night only... Cradley Ride again.... Friends, fans and brethren please spread the word. Our Virtual Skid project next airs tomorrow, Thursday 16 July and features the Heathens going wheel to wheel against the Coventry Bees from the 90’s. Please come and join us on Speedway Portals Youtube channel, like our FB Page Virtual Skid and Twitter @skidvirtual Each Heat is sponsored (as are the team managers Garry Stead and Adam Roynon). The Speedway Riders Benevolent Fund will be the sponsorship recipients. Additional donations are being taken. Don’t forget the SRBF text line is now open for you to be able to donate £5 - its quick and easy and you will be supporting a great cause. Text SRBF to 70085 or SRBFNOINFO to 70085 if you do not want any marketing updates. Here is the legal bit.... Text SRBF to 70085 to donate £5 Texts cost £5 plus one standard rate message and you’ll be opting in to hear more about our work and fundraising via telephone and SMS. If you’d like to give £5 but do not wish to receive marketing communications, text SRBFNOINFO to 70085. If you haven’t tried Virtual Skid yet, search Speedway Portal and follow the links to one of the five meetings that have already been screened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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