Eastbourne 2016

[Jayne]

 

The 3.00 and 5.00 pt rule applies in the NL, not the PL.

 

This is the rule as stated in SCB Regulations regarding riders new to the PL and their averages:

 

18.6 RIDERS MATCH AVERAGES (see SR 16.2 for Definitions) and GRADINGS

18.6.1 Riders new to Premier League racing are categorised as follows:

Cat 1: Riders with an “end of the previous season’s published average” in the Polish

Ekstraliga or the Swedish Elitserien of above 6.00 points and a Rider subject to a

Certificate of Sponsorship

Cat 2: Riders with an “end of the previous season’s published average” in the Polish

Ekstraliga or Swedish Elitserien of 6.00 and below plus ALL other Riders riding

currently in any Professional Speedway League,

Cat 3a: Riders not riding in a Professional Speedway League

Cat 3b: Commonwealth or USA (to a maximum of 4 each season) Riders new to British

Speedway

Cat 4: Riders who have ridden in the National Development League as an Amateur

18.6.2 The Assessed MA's for new Riders to the PL racing is:

Cat 1 8.00

Cat 2 7.00

Cat 3a 5.00

Cat 3b 7.00

Cat 4 3.00

Can you point me to a regulation that states that there is a difference between a rider with a British passport and a rider who has patriality ?

 

If not, Wilson-Dean's PL average is a 3.00.

 

Or is it the case that the BSPA are attempting to make things up and ignore their own rule book again. Shades of Len Silver's insistence that Daniel Spiller came in to the NL on a 5.00, despite the fact that he was a British passport holder and had not ridden in the NL.

Apologies hadn't realise that had been introduced

[Halifaxtiger]

 

 

Let's look at this logically-

Cat 1 does not apply (averages) and Cat 2 probably does not apply (on the basis that the National League is not a Professional Speedway League)

Cat 3b refers to riders "new to British Speedway" - so that's not the case is it ?

 

Now, this is where Speedway rules are poorly drafted because 3a and 4 overlap.

 

Cat 4 is clear in that it applies to riders who have riden in the National Development League, (which is not a Professional Speedway League?)

 

Cat 3a applies to riders not riding in a Professional Speedway League (Have we established that the National Development League is not a Professional Speedway League?)

 

It would therefore appear that Cat 3a can apply to riders who have riden in the National Development League as well as them being classified as a Cat 4. You take your choice....

Confusing?

 

While I accept it is needs to be more specific, that would mean that every rider coming out of the NL at least could be a 7.00 - and its pretty clear they aren't.

 

Its also nothing to do with Wilson-Dean's immigration status, as it could apply to English riders.

 

Wilson-Dean is a 3.00 in the PL, not the 5.00 that both Somerset and Plymouth were quoted.

 

Apologies hadn't realise that had been introduced

 

A promoter being honest and apologising ? Never thought I'd see the day

 

That's your chance of being BSPA chairman gone..............

Edited November 6, 2015 by Halifaxtiger

[catinthehat]

If Wilson dean can get a UK passport which he can but not for 3 years means he could come into the PL on a 3. so does that make it right! because he can get one with out a problem must mean he is able to ride in the PL as an English Man.

 

If he is not allowed to get an English passport must mean he is not English.

 

Still makes a joke of it all, it really needs a promoter to take a chance on him and see if he is made out of the stuff we think he is. Give the guy a chance someone.

[woofers]

OK, let's try again.

 

Cat in the Hat - I can't see where Speedway Regulations 18.6 refer to English or English passports, so where is this 'Englishman on a 3.00 pt average' coming from ?

 

Halifax - how do you get that 'every rider coming out of the NL could be a 7'? To be a 7 you need to have either ridden in a Professional Speedway League (Cat 2) or be Commonwealth or USA and new to British Speedway (Cat 3b). On the basis that the NL isn't a Professional Speedway League it's clear that Cat 2 can't apply, and the riders coming out of the NL wouldn't be 'new to British Speedway' (Cat 3b) would they?

 

I am glad you accept it needs to be more specific, that's why we have a problem here (and probably why similar issues arise regarding other rules). Playing devils advocate, you are using Cat 4 (NL rider) quite legitimately, to say it's a 3 pt average, other promoters are using Cat 3a, (not ridden in a Professional League), quite legitimately to argue for a 5 pt average.

 

Unfortunately it's not clear cut however much you argue it. The rules need to be specific and so should be re-written.

[Alan_Jones]

OK, let's try again.

 

Cat in the Hat - I can't see where Speedway Regulations 18.6 refer to English or English passports, so where is this 'Englishman on a 3.00 pt average' coming from ?

 

Halifax - how do you get that 'every rider coming out of the NL could be a 7'? To be a 7 you need to have either ridden in a Professional Speedway League (Cat 2) or be Commonwealth or USA and new to British Speedway (Cat 3b). On the basis that the NL isn't a Professional Speedway League it's clear that Cat 2 can't apply, and the riders coming out of the NL wouldn't be 'new to British Speedway' (Cat 3b) would they?

 

I am glad you accept it needs to be more specific, that's why we have a problem here (and probably why similar issues arise regarding other rules). Playing devils advocate, you are using Cat 4 (NL rider) quite legitimately, to say it's a 3 pt average, other promoters are using Cat 3a, (not ridden in a Professional League), quite legitimately to argue for a 5 pt average.

 

Unfortunately it's not clear cut however much you argue it. The rules need to be specific and so should be re-written.

 

Past practice shows that Cat 3a refers to non-Commonwealth riders not having ridden in a foreign professional league. Cam Heeps and Todd Kurtz are past examples of riders with patriality or dual nationality (I've lost track of which!) entering the PL from the NL on a 3. 19.9.2.5 refers to British passports and patriality.

 

of course this is all speculation and may be redundant if they change or clarify the rules on December 2nd.

[woofers]

Past practice shows that Cat 3a refers to non-Commonwealth riders not having ridden in a foreign professional league. Cam Heeps and Todd Kurtz are past examples of riders with patriality or dual nationality (I've lost track of which!) entering the PL from the NL on a 3. 19.9.2.5 refers to British passports and patriality.

 

of course this is all speculation and may be redundant if they change or clarify the rules on December 2nd.

Precisely why the rules need need to be specific and re-written - why not say 'non -Commonwealth' and 'foreign professional league' in the rules, it's not a lot to change is it ? Past practice .....hmmm, you just know that phrase, when referring to a rule, is going to cause a problem somewhere along the line, and here it is.

 

19.9.2.5 is a requirement relevant to the NL - I thought we were talking about riders moving up from the NL to the PL?

[Alan_Jones]

19.9.2.5 is a requirement relevant to the NL - I thought we were talking about riders moving up from the NL to the PL?

 

It is, and therefore specifies the only type of riders that will be moving from NL to PL.

[*JJ]

OK, let's try again.

 

Cat in the Hat - I can't see where Speedway Regulations 18.6 refer to English or English passports, so where is this 'Englishman on a 3.00 pt average' coming from ?

 

Halifax - how do you get that 'every rider coming out of the NL could be a 7'? To be a 7 you need to have either ridden in a Professional Speedway League (Cat 2) or be Commonwealth or USA and new to British Speedway (Cat 3b). On the basis that the NL isn't a Professional Speedway League it's clear that Cat 2 can't apply, and the riders coming out of the NL wouldn't be 'new to British Speedway' (Cat 3b) would they?

 

In fact, the NL IS a 'Professional Speedway League'; the President of the BSPA said so.

[Ben91]

In fact, the NL IS a 'Professional Speedway League'; the President of the BSPA said so.

It isn't professional unless the riders are earning a full time living from it, I can't see anyone earning a full time living from NL racing.

[Islander15]

In fact, the NL IS a 'Professional Speedway League'; the President of the BSPA said so.

Category 4 states: having ridden NL as an amateur. So the rule itself infers that the NL is an amateur league, unless its a professional league filled with amateur competitors (by virtue of needing a second job to make a living). But by definition, doesn't that make it an amateur league!!

[SCB]

Regarding BWD, once the BSPA decided he was eligible for the NL his PL (and EL) average was 3.00. I don't see how there can be any doubt, it's not even a grey area.

 

I think the issue is they illegally let him ride NL.

[Alan_Jones]

Regarding BWD, once the BSPA decided he was eligible for the NL his PL (and EL) average was 3.00. I don't see how there can be any doubt, it's not even a grey area.

 

I think the issue is they illegally let him ride NL.

 

I thought it was established way back that he had patriality.

[solrac]

Regarding BWD, once the BSPA decided he was eligible for the NL his PL (and EL) average was 3.00. I don't see how there can be any doubt, it's not even a grey area.

 

I think the issue is they illegally let him ride NL.

How do you make that out?

[Alex2000]

Regarding BWD, once the BSPA decided he was eligible for the NL his PL (and EL) average was 3.00. I don't see how there can be any doubt, it's not even a grey area.

 

I think the issue is they illegally let him ride NL.

They let him in on the fact he was part British so he came in on a 5.00 rather than 3 so surely he's come into 1 league on 5 so the others will be the same?

[TurnTwo]

He has British patriality = 5

 

He has Nz passport = commonwealth

 

Falls into two categories in bspa rule book / 3 as qualified from nl. 7 as qualified as commonwealth. As he has patriality they met half way and let him join pl on a 5.

[Alan_Jones]

They let him in on the fact he was part British so he came in on a 5.00 rather than 3 so surely he's come into 1 league on 5 so the others will be the same?

 

 

He has British patriality = 5

 

He has Nz passport = commonwealth

 

Falls into two categories in bspa rule book / 3 as qualified from nl. 7 as qualified as commonwealth. As he has patriality they met half way and let him join pl on a 5.

 

 

They didn't "let him in" he was fully entitled, as per the regulations, to enter the NL on a 5 point average. Once in the NL, he can only move into the PL on a 3 point average unless they change the rules. The 7 point average is for Commonwealth riders new to British Speedway, which he isn't.

[Alex2000]

It's been awesome but next year I hope to go on to even bigger and better things and to further my career as a speedway rider. - He said this in his thank you post. Which tells me he won't be back in NL next year as he has done most of what he can do in the NL and needs to move up to improve further. If he can't get a PL spot will he think it's worth coming over just for NL?

[Triple.H.]

In fact, the NL IS a 'Professional Speedway League'; the President of the BSPA said so.

As do so many riders at that level on their sign written vans.

[steven101]

Kelseys put on facebook its unlikely he will be at eastbourne next season

[catinthehat]

Just seen about Kelsey, Shame but he did tell everyone that he didnt want to ride for Eastbourne in 2016 as he was hard to ride when your father and brother run the team, Seems he shot himself in the steel boot. lol

 

Time for him to look else where or see if anyone wants to come forward for him.