sparkafag Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) In theory, yes, but I just doubt that it will bring on many more PL quality riders. To state the blindingly obvious (sorry!) it seems to me that a young (in this case, British) rider needs first a liking for the sport, second determination to get on and third talent. I can't see there is much stopping British riders who fulfil all three requirements from getting to the top, or at least to a place in a PL team's 1-5 (which is a long way from the top, but I'm sure you see what I mean) - at different levels, e.g. Tai W, Jason Garrity. What this new system may produce is riders who love the sport and are determined/resilient, but don't have the natural ability to kick on. I could name some, but I don't think it is necessary - we can all think of examples, I'm sure. This looks like a cost cutting measure to me. If we have to cut our cloth, then fine - but aren't there better ways to do it than this? What is “PL quality”? I am a bit of a loss to the answer to that question, it seems to come up quite regular in reference to guys (more so young Brits) “are they ready”, define “ready” or “PL quality” because over the course of the last 10 years riders have raced in the PL who were really very poor, there was even riders during the glory days of 02 through 09 who weren’t very good. Some might argue Clegg and Branford aren’t “PL quality”…well they have just raced in a side that won the league and arguably only found their place in that side as a result of restrictive points limits, cost cutting etc…if it wasn’t for that they probably/possibly wouldn’t have had a place…what else were Edinburgh going to do? win the league by even more with other riders? If riders can’t kick on they will be replaced that’s always been the nature of sport, at least the system affords them the chance. If 4 or 5 Brits can come through a season, in theory its 5 less riders who miss meetings because of commitments on the continent thus leading to R/R and guests. if it so happens it cuts costs, great, that’s an additional bonus rather than something to be mocked, I would far rather clubs were sustainable than not, it’s easy mocking a system or plan put in place, but if the alternative is to simply mock it, then it just seems like a bit of a cheap shot. The worst thing about this system (fast track reserves) is it has a name, something to point at, in reality it’s just the same team building/points limit process that’s been in place for years. Edited October 20, 2015 by sparkafag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrace Grumbler Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 What is “PL quality”? I am a bit of a loss to the answer to that question, it seems to come up quite regular in reference to guys (more so young Brits) “are they ready”, define “ready” or “PL quality” because over the course of the last 10 years riders have raced in the PL who were really very poor, there was even riders during the glory days of 02 through 09 who weren’t very good. Some might argue Clegg and Branford aren’t “PL quality”…well they have just raced in a side that won the league and arguably only found their place in that side as a result of restrictive points limits, cost cutting etc…if it wasn’t for that they probably/possibly wouldn’t have had a place…what else were Edinburgh going to do? win the league by even more with other riders? If riders can’t kick on they will be replaced that’s always been the nature of sport, at least the system affords them the chance. If 4 or 5 Brits can come through a season, in theory its 5 less riders who miss meetings because of commitments on the continent thus leading to R/R and guests. if it so happens it cuts costs, great, that’s an additional bonus rather than something to be mocked, I would far rather clubs were sustainable than not, it’s easy mocking a system or plan put in place, but if the alternative is to simply mock it, then it just seems like a bit of a cheap shot. The worst thing about this system (fast track reserves) is it has a name, something to point at, in reality it’s just the same team building/points limit process that’s been in place for years. I'm not mocking the proposal, I'm offering a critique of it - there is a difference! Do you agree that protected races spoil the purity of the contest? I am concerned that they would for me. I can imagine Ian Thomas laughing - he'll put his harp down so he can read the new rules and work out how to circumvent them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) I'm not mocking the proposal, I'm offering a critique of it - there is a difference! Do you agree that protected races spoil the purity of the contest? I am concerned that they would for me. I can imagine Ian Thomas laughing - he'll put his harp down so he can read the new rules and work out how to circumvent them... A critique is a detailed analyses and assessment designed to improve though, there has to be a degree of balance and logic when doing that so that the person you are critiquing can take something from it. It also tends to stick to a point, focus on it, drill down on it and improve it, thus far you’ve moved from it being a short term fix, it isn’t, mentioning that the the World Cup doesn’t matter, which isn’t relevant, the riders aren’t Pl quality without defining what PL quality is, and now that protected races spoil the product with continual references to old promotions. What is anyone meant to learn from that critique? it just seems a bit….yeah but. Edited October 20, 2015 by sparkafag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS50 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Surely the protected heat 4 just means the number 6 can't replace the number 7 ? What if the 7 got injured in race 2 and had to be withdrawn from the match? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 we should not be "protecting" riders in certain heats, it just leads to anomalies and who can sign the better No 7 as has happened in EL.By all means have "3 point young rider" but just let them get on with it if they are good enough if not they can be replaced with another young rider. You can't Fast Track speedway riders it's just a stupid phrase IMO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 The irony of a PL fan complaining that rules mean they don't get to see the best. Go EL then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Yes, it absolutely is a daft name, it shouldn’t have been named fast track, aiding development would probably have been better, either that or don’t make any mention of it during the winter and no one would have known any better and just got on with it, because to be honest most clubs have been signing 3.00 Brit riders for years. It is completely arse backwards to suggest the system hasn’t (and will continue) to develop riders. They are evidently going to improve based on track time alone. The “Fast Track” system has allowed riders like Starke, Nielsen, Sarjeant, Kerr, Blackbird and Bates 100s of laps that they wouldn’t have been afforded as they simply wouldn’t have had a team place at Poole, Leicester etc, that alone has aided their development before you even consider the input of the riders they have been around. They might have “got there” but the experience has increased their chances of “getting there” which is the entire point of a development system, they are now “there” in the PL as well, and most can now be considered very steady performers in that league and that’s before even mentioning the ones who were good before the system was in place. If racing protected races helped aid their development, good, the country needs more riders to help improve the product short/medium and long term. Sides benefit If they pick some riders up on beneficial grades, of course they do, the same way sides benefit (typically the richer ones) from picking up riders on bargain averages. If Glasgow for example sign Wajnacket this season it’s no different than them chucking money at Berge on a seemingly bargain average last winter. Edited October 20, 2015 by sparkafag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 we should not be "protecting" riders in certain heats, it just leads to anomalies and who can sign the better No 7 as has happened in EL.By all means have "3 point young rider" but just let them get on with it if they are good enough if not they can be replaced with another young rider. You can't Fast Track speedway riders it's just a stupid phrase IMO All the talk prior to the draft was which if any Brit riders would get the nod in a PL side. Now im all in favour of giving a british 3 pointer the place over a foreign no hoper / journey man but let them earn the right to keep their place. Im sure a few that step up will cause quite a few surprises anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Says in the sheffield 2016 thread that adam ellis would be in the main team on 4.55 as he has a pl average, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Think max Clegg rob Branford have both stepped up this year as max said in his interview after final he has learned so much from the likes of cookie and Sam masters sedgy and if your willing to listen to these guys you will improve 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young51 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 I'm not in favour of any fast track 'draft' system or forcing teams to track a 3 point rider in your team.Personally i think if you're good enough you'll make it on merit.i feel this years kneejerk edict from the AGM will no doubt be open to abuse by the financially better off clubs who'll throw silly money at a youngster.. Don't get me wrong it's always good seeing say a local rider given a chance in your team and improving,but teams should be allowed to compile their 1-7 within the agreed 42.5 limit with whoever they choose regardless of where they come from.. As a fan i couldnt really care where a rider is from as long as they are good enough..I wish i could say that this is a great idea and will be beneficial to our sport,but i'm totally against this whole draft scenario in the Premier League full stop.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 I'm not in favour of any fast track 'draft' system or forcing teams to track a 3 point rider in your team.Personally i think if you're good enough you'll make it on merit.i feel this years kneejerk edict from the AGM will no doubt be open to abuse by the financially better off clubs who'll throw silly money at a youngster.. Don't get me wrong it's always good seeing say a local rider given a chance in your team and improving,but teams should be allowed to compile their 1-7 within the agreed 42.5 limit with whoever they choose regardless of where they come from.. As a fan i couldnt really care where a rider is from as long as they are good enough..I wish i could say that this is a great idea and will be beneficial to our sport,but i'm totally against this whole draft scenario in the Premier League full stop.. Not of foreigners are willing to come over here and ride for peanuts and take away your opportunities. Yes the top riders will, the the ones who are only likely to be 4 point men won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 I'm not in favour of any fast track 'draft' system or forcing teams to track a 3 point rider in your team.Personally i think if you're good enough you'll make it on merit.i feel this years kneejerk edict from the AGM will no doubt be open to abuse by the financially better off clubs who'll throw silly money at a youngster.. Don't get me wrong it's always good seeing say a local rider given a chance in your team and improving,but teams should be allowed to compile their 1-7 within the agreed 42.5 limit with whoever they choose regardless of where they come from.. As a fan i couldnt really care where a rider is from as long as they are good enough..I wish i could say that this is a great idea and will be beneficial to our sport,but i'm totally against this whole draft scenario in the Premier League full stop.. I don't think Poole are in the Premier League. :blink: .................. or are they? :unsure: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 I don't think Poole are in the Premier League. :blink: .................. or are they? :unsure: Glasgow are though!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Well I for one am disapointted - I was hoping for some sort of radical new League structure with the EL and PL combining and losing the clubs to a new National League who couldn't make last season pay. I even thought some teams may have taken the plunge into the EL, Somerset included which is a little disapointting. Onwards and upwards as they say... Rider replacement would be my first signing of 2016! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Clegg and Branford, while both only averaging just over three have actually averaged that figure rather than being below it and rounded up to three. Shows what you can do if you persist. Makes me laugh that some people are happy to watch riders who come in on an assessed seven point averages originally and drop three to four points off of them but won't give a Brit a chance on a three who will make a good effort at maintaining or bettering their assessed figure. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coomie Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Well I for one am disapointted - I was hoping for some sort of radical new League structure with the EL and PL combining and losing the clubs to a new National League who couldn't make last season pay. I even thought some teams may have taken the plunge into the EL, Somerset included which is a little disapointting. Onwards and upwards as they say... Rider replacement would be my first signing of 2016! paul starke would be mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Clegg and Branford, while both only averaging just over three have actually averaged that figure rather than being below it and rounded up to three. Shows what you can do if you persist. Makes me laugh that some people are happy to watch riders who come in on an assessed seven point averages originally and drop three to four points off of them but won't give a Brit a chance on a three who will make a good effort at maintaining or bettering their assessed figure. They are happy with the drop off of 4 points because they then have another 4 points to strengthen up with. The assessed average situation is a farce. What is a 7 should stay a 7 until it is exceeded. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrace Grumbler Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 A critique is a detailed analyses and assessment designed to improve though, there has to be a degree of balance and logic when doing that so that the person you are critiquing can take something from it. It also tends to stick to a point, focus on it, drill down on it and improve it, thus far you’ve moved from it being a short term fix, it isn’t, mentioning that the the World Cup doesn’t matter, which isn’t relevant, the riders aren’t Pl quality without defining what PL quality is, and now that protected races spoil the product with continual references to old promotions. What is anyone meant to learn from that critique? it just seems a bit….yeah but. A critique is a critical evaluation. As for the rest of this post, you continue to misread and misunderstand entirely what I have written (and, I see, don't answer the question I put forward). I could go on, yeah, but....I don't come on these boards to learn. if I find out interesting and new things, that's great, but for me at least, basically it's an exchange of views and a laugh now and then. It's not about pseudo-intellectual grandstanding, anyway. Enough said, I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Well I for one am disapointted - I was hoping for some sort of radical new League structure with the EL and PL combining and losing the clubs to a new National League who couldn't make last season pay. I even thought some teams may have taken the plunge into the EL, Somerset included which is a little disapointting. Onwards and upwards as they say... Rider replacement would be my first signing of 2016! I bet he rides for most clubs next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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