Alan_Jones Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I don't think thats what it means. The number 7 will ride at #7. The number 7 goes out in heat 2 (protected) and then heat 4 is currently the 2 5 and 7s, that will be protected too so that the number 7s ride against each other (plus the number 5). Rather than heat 4 being another reserve race. I think/hope anyway! Yep, could be right although they'll probably change their minds by November 3rd after they've had time to think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Dan Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 As I understand it they aren't National League 3 pointers they are Premier League 3 pointers who are available to ride National League, examples would be Greaves, Williamson, both Greenwoods, Wajknecht, Carr, Blacklock, Spiller, Perks, Morley, Stokes or Shanes - basically those who have't attained an official Premier League average 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadders Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Yep, could be right although they'll probably change their minds by November 3rd after they've had time to think about it. They changed their minds half way through the season in 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrace Grumbler Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 If true, this no. 7 idea is a real blow, on a par with (if not worse than) the abolition of the tac sub. Subject to the points limit, PL speedway has been a "pure" product, and better (in my view) than the EL because of that. I don't want to see "protected" races, false averages and the devious ways some people are bound to find to get around these rules. I'm not bothered about developing British riders - the world cup is a meaningless bauble and in my experience most speedway supporters are happy for the riders in the team they support to come from just about anywhere. The worry is that the patient is bleeding to death and this is just another sticking plaster which won't stop what sadly looks more and more inevitable. I have no original solutions but, rather than protected wobblers, how about saving money with, for example, the six rider team format that someone mentioned a while ago? Johnnie Hoskins must be turning in his grave. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 If true, this no. 7 idea is a real blow, on a par with (if not worse than) the abolition of the tac sub. Subject to the points limit, PL speedway has been a "pure" product, and better (in my view) than the EL because of that. I don't want to see "protected" races, false averages and the devious ways some people are bound to find to get around these rules. I'm not bothered about developing British riders - the world cup is a meaningless bauble and in my experience most speedway supporters are happy for the riders in the team they support to come from just about anywhere. The worry is that the patient is bleeding to death and this is just another sticking plaster which won't stop what sadly looks more and more inevitable. I have no original solutions but, rather than protected wobblers, how about saving money with, for example, the six rider team format that someone mentioned a while ago? Johnnie Hoskins must be turning in his grave. Is it not the complete opposite of a short term solution? Is it not the ideal solution in that it should, in theory, help create a larger churn of British riders in this country who want to race and stay in this country rather than travelling around the world for open meetings, thus missing meetings which leads to R/R. guests and disrupted race calendars (the things that seem to irk a lot of fans). Not every rider who is part of the system has to go on to World Cup glory, if any do it will be a bonus, but if they help to rid speedway of some of its supposed ills, surely that’s beneficial? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoo Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Normal rules I would think. There'll be one less chance for a swap anyway as there are going to be 2 reserve races which is more of a worry about how that affects the rest of the format.Wont they just adopt the EL race format that has 2 reserve races My biggest worry IF this format and set up is true is that it could make the likes of Konopka even more attractive for the No6 position. 2 guaranteed races against NL opposition and signing him instead of say Eliis on 4.5+ gives an extra 1.5 for the top 5. Both could/ should get same points in those reserve heats..... This happens already in the EL in a way Edited October 19, 2015 by scoobydoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 It seems like the light has been seen regarding the EL race format being rubbish and drawing riders' averages towards six a piece and they'll hopefully be reverting to the old format. The wording of the press release could be open to different interpretations, is someone like Adam Ellis on a four plus figure eligible to be a number seven because he is still eligible for the NL, and if so this seems to mean he'll start on a three point average? If the number seven has to be a three point rider then Ellis, along with Branford and Clegg who are just above three each may be casualties of the new system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) It seems like the light has been seen regarding the EL race format being rubbish and drawing riders' averages towards six a piece and they'll hopefully be reverting to the old format. The wording of the press release could be open to different interpretations, is someone like Adam Ellis on a four plus figure eligible to be a number seven because he is still eligible for the NL, and if so this seems to mean he'll start on a three point average? If the number seven has to be a three point rider then Ellis, along with Branford and Clegg who are just above three each may be casualties of the new system? Thus penalising our better Riders coming through. :sad: Nothing about Double Points I suppose? Aaahhh well - another year in the wilderness. So be it. Edited October 19, 2015 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 My biggest worry IF this format and set up is true is that it could make the likes of Konopka even more attractive for the No6 position. 2 guaranteed races against NL opposition and signing him instead of say Eliis on 4.5+ gives an extra 1.5 for the top 5. Both could/ should get same points in those reserve heats..... Exactly. The likes of Konopka, Stichauer, Dilger are now essential No.6's. Probably adding 1.00 to 2.00 to their averages in heat 2 alone riding against NL standard riders. You'd have to be a mug to have a No.6 who averages much more than 3.50 based on their potential to increase. So what happens to the likes of Stefan Nielsen? Another half thought through idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Exactly. The likes of Konopka, Stichauer, Dilger are now essential No.6's. Probably adding 1.00 to 2.00 to their averages in heat 2 alone riding against NL standard riders. You'd have to be a mug to have a No.6 who averages much more than 3.50 based on their potential to increase. So what happens to the likes of Stefan Nielsen? Another half thought through idea. Put Konopka, Stichauer or Dilger in the NL and they wouldn't average any more than the likes of Morley, Branford etc. Reserves still play a big part if other riders are underperforming, if you line up with two three pointers then there's always the chance they'll both struggle and then you're buggered. There are enough riders for a two tiered reserve draft system, the bullet should have been bitten and it implemented with a 36.5 limit for top fives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterborough daz Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 My biggest worry IF this format and set up is true is that it could make the likes of Konopka even more attractive for the No6 position. 2 guaranteed races against NL opposition and signing him instead of say Eliis on 4.5+ gives an extra 1.5 for the top 5. Both could/ should get same points in those reserve heats..... My thoughts exactly Konopka will beat most NL riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wealdstone Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 My thoughts exactly Konopka will beat most NL riders. Possibly if he can manage to stay on his bike for 4 laps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Thus penalising our better Riders coming through. :sad: Nothing about Double Points I suppose? Aaahhh well - another year in the wilderness. So be it. every cloud n all that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) My thoughts exactly Konopka will beat most NL riders. The guy who average 2.45 is suddenly going to come good? He won't get 3.5 next year is my prediction - Id' say won't get a job but you know some mug promoter will give him one. God knows why. Maybe is young Brits were given the changes he's been given they'd be hitting the dizy heights of a 2.45 average now! I can just see the PL going into melt down because Nicki Barrett, Roland Benko, Fernando Garcia, Hynek Stichauer, Danny Massen, Rafal Konopka, Paco Castagna, Alex Edberg, Arthur Sissis, Dimitri Berge and Rusty Harrison are all forced out after failing to average more than 4! Frankly, most of them are a waste of time and space, they'll never add anything to British Speedway. The suggestion that Konopka is better signing that Stef Nielsen is messed up too, even if Konopka did beat all the NL riders (and he won't) so would Stef Nielsen but Stef would also beat some 1-5 riders, Konopka won't. Edited October 19, 2015 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Surely Adam Ellis and others who have a PL average over 3 will be in this No.7 draft, as it says riders who are eligible for the NL will be in the draft, is people like Roynon, Hall and Rose eligible? Have been told that If they have a pl ave over 3 they can't be #7 so we will need around 21 NL riders between elite and PL with clubs that own riders having first choice of there rider so think Liam Carr will be Berwicks and Danny Phillips will be at Peterborough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior fan Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Doesn't say anywhere that the same rule will apply in the EL , they are still going to use the draft system where they rate riders in two tiers. Junior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 It seems like the light has been seen regarding the EL race format being rubbish and drawing riders' averages towards six a piece and they'll hopefully be reverting to the old format. The wording of the press release could be open to different interpretations, is someone like Adam Ellis on a four plus figure eligible to be a number seven because he is still eligible for the NL, and if so this seems to mean he'll start on a three point average? If the number seven has to be a three point rider then Ellis, along with Branford and Clegg who are just above three each may be casualties of the new system? Won't Clegg get a reduction anyway being his first season in the PL that would take him back down to 3.00 average that's if my maths is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baba Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 So would sarge in that case. But the whole point of all this is both max and james should be riding at 2 or 4 leaving the places for fast track/reserves on under 4.5 and a new three. But the whole point of all this is both max and james should be riding at 2 or 4 leaving the places for fast track/reserves on under 4.5 and a new three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 So would sarge in that case. He would but even with the reduction he would still be to high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclone Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Won't Clegg get a reduction anyway being his first season in the PL that would take him back down to 3.00 average that's if my maths is right. Clegg's final GSA is published as 3.48. If the reduction is still 2.5%, that reduces it to 3.39. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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