damosuzuki Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 As a club within 30 miles of the Monarchs it is as they are within their rights, find another day. In their rights to have their objection noted, but not to have it adopted. It will be up for debate / vote I'd assume (although maybe wrongly). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchopper Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) damosuzuki, on 19 Oct 2015 - 4:27 PM, said: Also Edinburgh is 46 miles from glasgow. It's surely absurd that we are adversely affected because they have moved their track to a location far nearer Glasgow. As I remember we've already been good enough to let them race on a Friday as they are renting these premises. Good luck to Edinburgh, but I hope the BSPA see sense and let us race on a Friday. Whilst I say again my main problem with the letter is the aggressive attitude and the push to boycott edinburgh, I think that is unnacceptable full stop and eide67 has hit the nail on the head. This is another part of the issue from an Edinburgh perspective, we atre not in edinburgh and have a much smaller catchment area than Glasgow. Despite being named Edinburgh it is very difficult to attract people from Edinburgh because of our location so our potential to increase supporters is more limited. Therefore (I am sure with regret) Monarchs are trying to protect what they do have as much as possible by objecting to this move as a small reduction will have a bigger impact on them at the moment. Not so long ago Tigers were really struggling with attendances and its great to see them turn it around, they are now at the stage of trying to keep that and build on it but don't step on your neighbours to do it. There is no need for Edinburgh and Glasgow to compete against each other when they can complement each other, e.g. Thursday/Friday or Friday/Saturday/Sunday with Berwick, there are already far too many other things for speedway to compete against these days. Glasgow own their own stadium and can race any night they like so why pick the same night as your nearest rival. Glasgow will also lose their priority and end up with a number of off race night meetings. They are not just competing for fans, but potentially guest riders, rerun dates, pit staff, mechanics, volunteers, medical staff, etc I know most of these are separate but it wouldn't be the first time someone has done the same role at both tracks, e.g. Michael Max filled in earlier in the season when Scott Wilson and John McGillvaray were missing and Rob McNeill spannered for both Sam and Dmitri earlier in the season. There is no apparently about it there is a Rule, Edinburgh didn't introduce it and it is not a new rule. I don't know what the process is but I guess it will ultimately come down to a vote from the other clubs in the division, Scunny moving to Sunday does work in the Tigers favour so it could go either way. Not sure if other teams will appreciate travelling to Scotland twice on a Friday and fans will not be happy losing the northern tour but you just never know. Edinburgh are already working hard off the track to try to improve the attendance and will continue to do so no matter the outcome of this, their promotion have 30 years experience and have had many challenges along the road but they continue to work really hard to make it work. It has been an amazing season and I am very happy to see them announced for next season today. At the end of the day, no one could compete with us on the track this season and that is all that should matter today. Come on the Monarchs! Edited October 19, 2015 by scotchopper 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george.m Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Also Edinburgh is 46 miles from glasgow. Serious point. If there is a 30 mile rule, then how and when was 30 miles decided. It's like speed limits based on braking distance ... if anyone saw it on Top Gear you'll know what I mean. If this is an "old" rule then transport has improved much since. Now the less serious point. How many of Embras fans actually come from Armadale? Surely most are "old school" and come from places further East. i.e. more than 30 miles away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekker Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Its probably pre-war george/m as I have seen it mentioned with all the London clubs just after WW2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george.m Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 So you're the one with the half and half scarf then George. Half red, half blue! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damosuzuki Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 damosuzuki, on 19 Oct 2015 - 4:27 PM, said: Also Edinburgh is 46 miles from glasgow. It's surely absurd that we are adversely affected because they have moved their track to a location far nearer Glasgow. As I remember we've already been good enough to let them race on a Friday as they are renting these premises. Good luck to Edinburgh, but I hope the BSPA see sense and let us race on a Friday. Whilst I say again my main problem with the letter is the aggressive attitude and the push to boycott edinburgh, I think that is unnacceptable full stop and eide67 has hit the nail on the head. This is another part of the issue from an Edinburgh perspective, we atre not in edinburgh and have a much smaller catchment area than Glasgow. Despite being named Edinburgh it is very difficult to attract people from Edinburgh because of our location so our potential to increase supporters is more limited. Therefore (I am sure with regret) Monarchs are trying to protect what they do have as much as possible by objecting to this move as a small reduction will have a bigger impact on them at the moment. Not so long ago Tigers were really struggling with attendances and its great to see them turn it around, they are now at the stage of trying to keep that and build on it but don't step on your neighbours to do it. There is no need for Edinburgh and Glasgow to compete against each other when they can complement each other, e.g. Thursday/Friday or Friday/Saturday/Sunday with Berwick, there are already far too many other things for speedway to compete against these days. Glasgow own their own stadium and can race any night they like so why pick the same night as your nearest rival. Glasgow will also lose their priority and end up with a number of off race night meetings. They are not just competing for fans, but potentially guest riders, rerun dates, pit staff, mechanics, volunteers, medical staff, etc I know most of these are separate but it wouldn't be the first time someone has done the same role at both tracks, e.g. Michael Max filled in earlier in the season when Scott Wilson and John McGillvaray were missing and Rob McNeill spannered for both Sam and Dmitri earlier in the season. There is no apparently about it there is a Rule, Edinburgh didn't introduce it and it is not a new rule. I don't know what the process is but I guess it will ultimately come down to a vote from the other clubs in the division, Scunny moving to Sunday does work in the Tigers favour so it could go either way. Not sure if other teams will appreciate travelling to Scotland twice on a Friday and fans will not be happy losing the northern tour but you just never know. Edinburgh are already working hard off the track to try to improve the attendance and will continue to do so no matter the outcome of this, their promotion have 30 years experience and have had many challenges along the road but they continue to work really hard to make it work. It has been an amazing season and I am very happy to see them announced for next season today. At the end of the day, no one could compete with us on the track this season and that is all that should matter today. Come on the Monarchs! If I'm being honest, I wasn't overjoyed at the letter being handed out on Friday as it was a great night and it soured it a little even for me as a Tigers fan. But I believe we will race on a Friday at some point in the future. I appreciate what you are saying, and I would be gutted if either club went under (again!!!). I spent many nights as a kid on the Powderhall terracing. Let's see what happens. I will bow out of the argument as it's going nowhere and in no sense am I anti-edinburgh speedway. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george.m Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) If I'm being honest, I wasn't overjoyed at the letter being handed out on Friday as it was a great night and it soured it a little even for me as a Tigers fan. But I believe we will race on a Friday at some point in the future. I appreciate what you are saying, and I would be gutted if either club went under (again!!!). I spent many nights as a kid on the Powderhall terracing. Let's see what happens. I will bow out of the argument as it's going nowhere and in no sense am I anti-edinburgh speedway. I agree with every point you make there. What I'd add is there's a lot of emotive talk around this, probably fuelled on one side by the nature of some comments in the letter - fair dues to those Edinburgh fans for feeling that way, don't blame them. Looking at it rationally thought: 1. Really how many fans would it take away from Edinburgh? 2. A key point for me is - there seems to be an underlying assumption that it would attract fans away from Edinburgh? Why? Surely Edinburgh has an attractive product in terms of racing? No? OK Glasgow now has a better off-track product, but why the assumption that it will hit Edinburgh? Especially from Edinburgh fans/promotion. 3. Would it really take any fans away at all? If so, how many neutrals are out there? Certainly don't see many posting on here - albeit that's not a true indicator. 4. How many neutrals currently visit both tracks on a weekend anyway? Cost and time probably means people chose one or the other at weekends. So what would be different if both run on a Friday? 5. The Northern tour argument - how many teams don't do northern tours in the league now? Have a look at the fixtures this year, did very team that went to Edinburgh on a Friday, do Glasgow on the Sunday ... No they didn't. Edited October 19, 2015 by george.m 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Serious point. If there is a 30 mile rule, then how and when was 30 miles decided. It's like speed limits based on braking distance ... if anyone saw it on Top Gear you'll know what I mean. If this is an "old" rule then transport has improved much since. Now the less serious point. How many of Embras fans actually come from Armadale? Surely most are "old school" and come from places further East. i.e. more than 30 miles away. I have watched Speedway for over 50 years and It existed when I started. It is meant to be a protection measure for existing clubs but as far as I am concerned it is out dated and needs removing. Edited October 19, 2015 by KIRKYLANE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmon Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Also Edinburgh is 46 miles from glasgow. It's surely absurd that we are adversely affected because they have moved their track to a location far nearer Glasgow. As I remember we've already been good enough to let them race on a Friday as they are renting these premises. Good luck to Edinburgh, but I hope the BSPA see sense and let us race on a Friday. Actually we are talking about Armadale Speedway which is the official title and the name which is used on all official paperwork. It just so happens that Edinburgh Monarchs Speedway Team hold competitive meetings there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 You ever seen Rangers and Celtic play at home on the same day? They play in the same city that's the difference, I don't even think one would play away at Partick Thistle if the other was at home. Scotchopper, how old does a rule have to be to be an old or new rule? The "old" rule was 50 miles, that's why Edinburgh had to get an agreement by Glasgow to run on Fridays as it was within 50 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchopper Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 They play in the same city that's the difference, I don't even think one would play away at Partick Thistle if the other was at home. Scotchopper, how old does a rule have to be to be an old or new rule? The "old" rule was 50 miles, that's why Edinburgh had to get an agreement by Glasgow to run on Fridays as it was within 50 miles. What I meant was it was not something new introduced recently or in the Harkess Chairman era, main point is that Edinburgh didn't make the rule. Be angry with the rule and try to change the rule would be a better way of approaching the situation than throw the toys out the pram. Actually given the world is a much smaller place these days (more cars on the road better public transport) it should be made a bigger distance ;-) (That was a joke btw) I fully understand why Glasgow want to change and will respect any decision that comes out the AGM if it is other clubs that vote on it, it is a democracy. Edinburgh wouldn't be doing their job right if they didn't try to protect their interest. I am glad to see there are a few tigers fans admitting that the letter was badly worded and incredibly badly timed. In terms of the question of whether running on the same night would make a big difference I don't know the answer but I certainly don't think it would have a positive effect on Edinburgh. The club have done a number of things to improve the situation they were in last year and I think they are in a much better position now. But the fight to ensure that continues for the next 50 years continues and losing 20+ (guess) Glasgow fans every week might not break the bank but it won't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MD Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) The timing of the letter was as good as it could have been. Glasgow could have handed it out at the beginning of the meeting or even printed it in the match programme. It was after all our last time at Ashfield until March. The only other alternative was to publish it on the club website at some point. The nature of the letter or more appropriately information leaflet being printed and not being in the programme suggests that it all unfolded immediately before Fridays meeting. Perhaps an agreement had been reached that was then reneged on. The tone of the letter suggests frustration with the whole situation. I doubt anyone would resort to putting it in the public domain at the first instance of difficulty. The other side of this is that Edinburgh have the right to reply. They are not slow in coming forward when they perceive they have been wronged or another party has not acted with the integrity they see themselves as having. To date they have made no comment. That may be due to the promoters AGM taking place or that the directors have yet to discuss this latest situation, or just maybe the Glasgow information leaflet hit the nail on the head and no one is available for comment. Imagine the Edinburgh PRO remaining silent! Edited October 19, 2015 by MD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endeavour Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Should Friday/Sunday gate not be on another thread? Having to trawl through all these posts hoping to read about the actual Matches. Just saying ....." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Fair call. Shame there has been so little about the matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damosuzuki Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 The other thing about the timing is it looks like the play off final was agreed after Edinburgh were told the plan but they then waited until the final was organised to let glasgow know they were objecting. Ie make sure we commit to the weekend that suits them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Who told you this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young51 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 The timing of the letter was as good as it could have been. Glasgow could have handed it out at the beginning of the meeting or even printed it in the match programme. It was after all our last time at Ashfield until March. The only other alternative was to publish it on the club website at some point. The nature of the letter or more appropriately information leaflet being printed and not being in the programme suggests that it all unfolded immediately before Fridays meeting. Perhaps an agreement had been reached that was then reneged on. The tone of the letter suggests frustration with the whole situation. I doubt anyone would resort to putting it in the public domain at the first instance of difficulty. The other side of this is that Edinburgh have the right to reply. They are not slow in coming forward when they perceive they have been wronged or another party has not acted with the integrity they see themselves as having. To date they have made no comment. That may be due to the promoters AGM taking place or that the directors have yet to discuss this latest situation, or just maybe the Glasgow information leaflet hit the nail on the head and no one is available for comment. Imagine the Edinburgh PRO remaining silent! They've had to be taken to a safe house for fear of waking and finding a Horses head in their bed (or even worse Ed the Monarchs napper) lol..that's what happens when apparently 'you've upset the Mobs plans for World Domination' .. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanAndersen Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 damosuzuki, on 19 Oct 2015 - 4:27 PM, said: Also Edinburgh is 46 miles from glasgow. It's surely absurd that we are adversely affected because they have moved their track to a location far nearer Glasgow. As I remember we've already been good enough to let them race on a Friday as they are renting these premises. Good luck to Edinburgh, but I hope the BSPA see sense and let us race on a Friday. Whilst I say again my main problem with the letter is the aggressive attitude and the push to boycott edinburgh, I think that is unnacceptable full stop and eide67 has hit the nail on the head. This is another part of the issue from an Edinburgh perspective, we atre not in edinburgh and have a much smaller catchment area than Glasgow. Despite being named Edinburgh it is very difficult to attract people from Edinburgh because of our location so our potential to increase supporters is more limited. Therefore (I am sure with regret) Monarchs are trying to protect what they do have as much as possible by objecting to this move as a small reduction will have a bigger impact on them at the moment. Not so long ago Tigers were really struggling with attendances and its great to see them turn it around, they are now at the stage of trying to keep that and build on it but don't step on your neighbours to do it. There is no need for Edinburgh and Glasgow to compete against each other when they can complement each other, e.g. Thursday/Friday or Friday/Saturday/Sunday with Berwick, there are already far too many other things for speedway to compete against these days. Glasgow own their own stadium and can race any night they like so why pick the same night as your nearest rival. Glasgow will also lose their priority and end up with a number of off race night meetings. They are not just competing for fans, but potentially guest riders, rerun dates, pit staff, mechanics, volunteers, medical staff, etc I know most of these are separate but it wouldn't be the first time someone has done the same role at both tracks, e.g. Michael Max filled in earlier in the season when Scott Wilson and John McGillvaray were missing and Rob McNeill spannered for both Sam and Dmitri earlier in the season. There is no apparently about it there is a Rule, Edinburgh didn't introduce it and it is not a new rule. I don't know what the process is but I guess it will ultimately come down to a vote from the other clubs in the division, Scunny moving to Sunday does work in the Tigers favour so it could go either way. Not sure if other teams will appreciate travelling to Scotland twice on a Friday and fans will not be happy losing the northern tour but you just never know. Edinburgh are already working hard off the track to try to improve the attendance and will continue to do so no matter the outcome of this, their promotion have 30 years experience and have had many challenges along the road but they continue to work really hard to make it work. It has been an amazing season and I am very happy to see them announced for next season today. At the end of the day, no one could compete with us on the track this season and that is all that should matter today. Come on the Monarchs! Great post. I hadn't considered the battle for more than just fans; guests, mechanics etc but it is a fair point. The other thing about the timing is it looks like the play off final was agreed after Edinburgh were told the plan but they then waited until the final was organised to let glasgow know they were objecting. Ie make sure we commit to the weekend that suits them. Why on earth would they do otherwise? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchopper Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 The timing of the letter was as good as it could have been. Glasgow could have handed it out at the beginning of the meeting or even printed it in the match programme. It was after all our last time at Ashfield until March. The only other alternative was to publish it on the club website at some point. The nature of the letter or more appropriately information leaflet being printed and not being in the programme suggests that it all unfolded immediately before Fridays meeting. Perhaps an agreement had been reached that was then reneged on. The tone of the letter suggests frustration with the whole situation. I doubt anyone would resort to putting it in the public domain at the first instance of difficulty. The other side of this is that Edinburgh have the right to reply. They are not slow in coming forward when they perceive they have been wronged or another party has not acted with the integrity they see themselves as having. To date they have made no comment. That may be due to the promoters AGM taking place or that the directors have yet to discuss this latest situation, or just maybe the Glasgow information leaflet hit the nail on the head and no one is available for comment. Imagine the Edinburgh PRO remaining silent! There would not have been an agreement as Edinburgh were never going to agree to it, only a very naive person would have thought that it. Whether you agree with them, thing they are being childish, genuinely think they are trying to hurt Glasgow (bonkers) or otherwise it shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone. The new Glasgow owners are not naive so as far as I am concerned this has been put out to try and bully and force the situation. I am sure Edinburgh will reply when they have something substantial and worthwhile to contribute and when the dust settles. Instead got on with celebrating the title, an unbelievable achievement of back to back titles (including the league cup) and their fifth in total. Given the average rules of British speedway this should be admired instead of all this rubbish. I am glad that they have taken the time to try to resolve the situation in the appropriate channels and not just become emboiled a bit in a twit for tat argument in the public domain. Which reminds me that is exactloy what I am doing so I will try to but out. Apologies to all for filling up the thread, I can ensure you it was a fantastic weekend of top Scottish speedway and I hope there are manhy more to come, with the same result! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damosuzuki Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Nobody told me anything. But that's the timescale from reading the letter. Ie they spoke a couple of weeks ago but found out about the objection during the week before the final. Anyway I was meant to be giving it a rest.it's not a massive deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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