Attendances

[The White Knight]

Points still score double. What's changed about that?

Nothing. :rolleyes:

[mikebv]

Presenters/announcers who were borns in the the 70s and 80s for a start, rather than presenters in their 70s and 80s! You're going to struggle to attract a crowd if your presenters is some old bugger. I cite the case of Ken Welch at BV. I remember a meeting where he "explained" Coventry had R/R at number 4 which means "each of the other Coventry riders can take a ride each" (not true) and then made a pigs ear of trying to explain later why one of the reserves was taking 2 of the rides! He then tried to explain the TR, he explains that the BV rider (I forget who now) would get double points if he beat a Coventry rider. When Morten Risager was excluded and Martin Smolinski won the race he explained it remained a 3-3 as the TR rider had not beat a Coventry rider. Only to have to correct himself minutes later. I had often critisized Ken and people come up with the "He's forgotten more about speedway than you'll ever know" which is fine, until he start forgetting that seasons rules! He also always sounded like he was being made to work at gun point and couldn't wait to go home, he never had any excitement in him.

 

It's not a job I couldn't do, I have all the charisma of a wet fart. But speedway is terrible at keeping old folk in the announcers box. Another thing is you see a great race, the crowd go wild, they're all excited and can't wait for the next race. Then you have a 10 minute break for track grading and they start playing some easy listening music that calms everyone down. The music should constantly be fast and upbeat - it can be old or new, it doesn't have to be music that I like, but if keeping people excited its much better than what some clubs play! Most people won't actually notice the music but it still has to be right.

 

 

edit - older people can do a good job tbf. Bob Radford who is quite a bit older than myself has always been good at it IMO. So maybe I'm being harsh moaner about older people presenting/announcing. but the thing with Bob is he retired while he was still good (but for the odd meeting) and didn't linger on tainting his legacy.

Ken Wrench....

 

But you are right about the rest....

 

The issue is that someone like Ken would appeal to his audience as they are mostly of a similar vintage, however any 'modern' presentation would no doubt alienate the majority of attendees..

 

Ken has now gone on to take a well earned rest from the box and will watch his speedway from the Grandstand when we go to the new track..

 

It will be interesting to see what the Promoters come up with to replace him...

[Stoke Potter]

 

I don't totally agree.

 

Better a cracking meeting with crap presentation than a crap meeting with top quality presentation. People come for the speedway after all, not to listen to the bloke in the middle.

 

As I have said before, there are too many tracks where it seems to me that good enough track preparation is good enough, and it simply isn't. That must be the first thing that is put right. I do accept, however, that there are some pretty awful presenters out there - not so much because they belong to another age but because they are just plain tedious.

 

Its also about winning. As far as I am concerned, Scunthorpe get the whole thing right. Best racing track in the country, Rob Godfrey in the mic and Graham Tagg in the box and as few delays as possible - I have actually heard the aforementioned Mr Godfrey making comment to the referee about putting the two minutes on - no intervals at EWR.

 

Their gates crashed at the start of the season when they were losing at home.

I agree with much of that.

If the basic product was fine then you would get more than the few hundred that turn up at most clubs.

Of course the presentation could be improved at most places but you've got to fix it at a fundamental level first.

[Crump99]

 

I don't totally agree.

 

Better a cracking meeting with crap presentation than a crap meeting with top quality presentation. People come for the speedway after all, not to listen to the bloke in the middle.

 

As I have said before, there are too many tracks where it seems to me that good enough track preparation is good enough, and it simply isn't. That must be the first thing that is put right. I do accept, however, that there are some pretty awful presenters out there - not so much because they belong to another age but because they are just plain tedious.

 

Its also about winning. As far as I am concerned, Scunthorpe get the whole thing right. Best racing track in the country, Rob Godfrey in the mic and Graham Tagg in the box and as few delays as possible - I have actually heard the aforementioned Mr Godfrey making comment to the referee about putting the two minutes on - no intervals at EWR.

 

Their gates crashed at the start of the season when they were losing at home.

 

With 15 mins of action in 2+ hours it's hard to ignore what comes out of the PA. These days the thought of the spare 100mins makes me think hard whether the 15mins is actually worth it. You'd take the risk irrespective by the sounds of it whereas I no longer will.

 

We (Panthers) were certainly on the right lines here presentation wise (and track prep was generally good) but sadly clueless for some reason when it came to picking the winning side to complement the package, which sort of covers your post:

 

Peter Oakes said: “I will be looking to add a more complete entertainment package and we have discussed and we will be exploring new ideas. I will in conjunction with Rick Frost and Team Manager Trevor Swales be putting together next year’s team although I don’t officially start in the role until December 1st” - peterboroughpanthers.co/news Nov 1 2009

 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Crump99

[ColinMills]

john earrey was fantastic...absolute natural, the war cry at the right time, at times going into the crowd, meeting the away crowd,

walking round all 4 corners of the stadium, knew the sport inside-out, known to the crowd, even his own catchphrase "so long as we know"

[steve roberts]

Remember John Earrey from my White City days. One of the best! Used to find Dave Hammond's announcements very soothing at Oxford. Precise and to the point. Personally I never liked 'disc-jockey' type announcers but that's me showing my age I suppose!

[Halifaxtiger]

 

With 15 mins of action in 2+ hours it's hard to ignore what comes out of the PA. These days the thought of the spare 100mins makes me think hard whether the 15mins is actually worth it. You'd take the risk irrespective by the sounds of it whereas I no longer will.

 

We (Panthers) were certainly on the right lines here presentation wise (and track prep was generally good) but sadly clueless for some reason when it came to picking the winning side to complement the package, which sort of covers your post:

 

Peter Oakes said: “I will be looking to add a more complete entertainment package and we have discussed and we will be exploring new ideas. I will in conjunction with Rick Frost and Team Manager Trevor Swales be putting together next year’s team although I don’t officially start in the role until December 1st” - peterboroughpanthers.co/news Nov 1 2009

 

 

Delay is almost always mentioned as a reason for fans being unhappy.

 

Meetings simply shouldn't take 2 hours - 90 minutes tops, and that includes breaks for injured riders. Standing around waiting for an hour or more for an ambulance to turn up tests the patience of even the most diehard supporter and if Plymouth and Newcastle have two ambulances and two paramedics, why can't everyone else ? When Ash Birks got seriously injured at Plymouth, the delay was just 15 minutes while they fixed the fence.

 

Referees have some responsibility for ensuring that as soon as the riders go into the pits the two minutes goes on whenever possible. Most fans accept track grading, but not after every single race. And for heavens sake do away with intervals. I have never met anyone who actually likes them, yet the majority of clubs still hold one. Why ?

 

Personally, if a meeting is good I think the quality of the presentation matters less. After all, we go to watch the racing, not listen to whoever is on the mic. That's not to say that the presentation isn't important, because it is. To my mind, though, it comes second every time to what happens on the track.

 

What you seem to say in the statement in bold above is even if the track has a reputation for excellent racing you wouldn't go because the presentation is poor. As a speedway fan - and I know you are too - I find that hard both to understand and to accept.

Ken Wrench....

 

But you are right about the rest....

 

The issue is that someone like Ken would appeal to his audience as they are mostly of a similar vintage, however any 'modern' presentation would no doubt alienate the majority of attendees..

 

Ken has now gone on to take a well earned rest from the box and will watch his speedway from the Grandstand when we go to the new track..

 

It will be interesting to see what the Promoters come up with to replace him...

 

I'm not sure that's true. To me, its about being and sounding enthusiastic and not to do with the actual age either of the announcer/presenter or the crowd.

 

I have thought for some years that Ken Wrench is just tedious to listen to and actually damaged the chances of Belle Vue being successful. Plymouth's Graham Hambly must be around the same age, but he's one of the best announcers in the game.

 

Eastbourne had a new presenter when I was there and his enthusiasm was catching. He was reasonably young but was clearly keen to get everyone involved in some way or other, and I am sure he appealed to the youngsters there as much as me.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Halifaxtiger

[AndyK86]

I always found Ken Wrench dull as dishwater, something good would happen but would still be boring on mic.

 

To most of us Speedway fans we would still go if there was no presentation as we are there to watch hopefully14 mad men race bikes with no brakes but when you are trying to get new fans things have to be slick and well presented because Speedway is competing against many other activities not just sport events/teams.

 

Money is tight these days so speedway promoters make people want to come and give you there hard earned cash or just cease to exist.

[Gemini]

Remember John Earrey from my White City days. One of the best! Used to find Dave Hammond's announcements very soothing at Oxford. Precise and to the point. Personally I never liked 'disc-jockey' type announcers but that's me showing my age I suppose!

We are lucky enough to have David Hammond at Coventry.

[SCB]

We are lucky enough to have David Hammond at Coventry.

I don't notice David Hammond which suggest he does a good job as he doesn't annoy me!

[E I Addio]

And for heavens sake do away with intervals. I have never met anyone who actually likes them, yet the majority of clubs still hold one. Why ?

me.

Lakeside don't make anything from the bar, food outlets etc so they don't have an interval. Most meetings last season were signed off by the referee at around 9.35/9.40 pm from an 8pm start. The latest finish last season was, as I recall 10.10pm after Magic crashed and took 3 safety fence panels out.

 

A few years ago we had a meeting in which Joonas Kylmakorpi needed to be away quickly to get to a long track meeting the next day and Chris Gay rushed it through in an hour and 15 minutes which seems to be about the optimum time doing it and works out at 5 minutes per heat, so realistically most meetings should be finished inside an hour 45 minutes even allowing for say 3 or 4 false starts of first bend incidents. Clubs should look at ways of cutting out long intervals which normally seem to run to about 20 minutes . Maybe one way would be to say there woukd be a five minute gap for track prep three times a meeting, then fans who want a cup of tea or whatever would know exactly how long they have got and it would stagger the ques more.

[Humphrey Appleby]

A few years ago we had a meeting in which Joonas Kylmakorpi needed to be away quickly to get to a long track meeting the next day and Chris Gay rushed it through in an hour and 15 minutes which seems to be about the optimum time doing it and works out at 5 minutes per heat, so realistically most meetings should be finished inside an hour 45 minutes even allowing for say 3 or 4 false starts of first bend incidents.

 

Even 105 minutes is too long for 15 heats, as that's still 6 minutes between every race with nothing happening. However, running through the heats in a more reasonable 75 minutes would really show up what poor value for money 17 quid is.

 

There needs to be 20 heats done-and-dusted within an hour-and-three-quarters, including a short interval. It used to be possible, so I don't see why not now.

 

Of course, there will be the usual grumbles that it'll cost more money etc.., but that need not entirely be the case if wages are structured around a different format. The entertainment value needs to increase otherwise the riders soon won't have jobs anyway.

[Gemini]

I don't notice David Hammond which suggest he does a good job as he doesn't annoy me!

He's got a very nice voice so he doesn't annoy me either.

[Halifaxtiger]

 

Even 105 minutes is too long for 15 heats, as that's still 6 minutes between every race with nothing happening. However, running through the heats in a more reasonable 75 minutes would really show up what poor value for money 17 quid is.

 

There needs to be 20 heats done-and-dusted within an hour-and-three-quarters, including a short interval. It used to be possible, so I don't see why not now.

 

Of course, there will be the usual grumbles that it'll cost more money etc.., but that need not entirely be the case if wages are structured around a different format. The entertainment value needs to increase otherwise the riders soon won't have jobs anyway.

 

I must admit I don't get - and never have - the argument that because the overall meeting is 75 rather than 90 or 105 minutes its either poorer value or highlights just how poor value it is.

 

You see around 15 minutes of racing either way, so I'd say the sooner a meeting finishes the better because the rest is mostly just standing around.

 

Its also only poor value if the speedway is rubbish.

 

Your last sentence is something perhaps all riders needed to be reminded of when they are making demands. Below the very top level, speedway is (and indeed always has been) a part time sport.

[steve roberts]

Personally I never had a problem with the length of a meeting as others apparently do. I used to stand with a good bunch of people on the pits bend at Oxford and in between heats we would discuss the night's racing and possible tactical moves etc. I never did appreciate Frank Ebden's desire to get the meeting over as soon as possible giving hardly enough time to draw breath!

 

Each to their own I suppose.

[Stoke Potter]

Personally I never had a problem with the length of a meeting as others apparently do. I used to stand with a good bunch of people on the pits bend at Oxford and in between heats we would discuss the night's racing and possible tactical moves etc. I never did appreciate Frank Ebden's desire to get the meeting over as soon as possible giving hardly enough time to draw breath!

 

Each to their own I suppose.

Yes, I'd go with that.

If you pay for an evening's entertainment you don't want it rushed through in the fastest possible time. 2 hours for the meeting, including breaks seems reasonable to me. And surely if the meeting's full of excitement and talking points you want it to last as long as possible, within reason.

All comes back to making the racing high quality more often instead of less often as it is now.

[Gemini]

 

 

.....Stoke Potter......Yes, I'd go with that.

If you pay for an evening's entertainment you don't want it rushed through in the fastest possible time. 2 hours for the meeting, including breaks seems reasonable to me.

I'd go with that too. Meeting starts at 7.30pm and finishes at 9.30pm is okay but how many do finish in under two hours? Sorry to pick on Kings Lynn again but no way would I want to stand around for forty minutes before the match even starts due to the blinking sun. Same goes for Leicester and their sun breaks. It must be my age as I get cheesed off these days with all the hanging around.

[Trees]

Lynn haven't got much of an alternative, it's no big deal, no worries, have a coke, have a chat, read the prog 😆

[Robert Lee]

Lynn haven't got much of an alternative, it's no big deal, no worries, have a coke, have a chat, read the prog

 

Only been to KL once many years ago and can't remember whether they had a sun v riders' eyes problem then - it only seems to have become an issue on here recently. However, I can't see that they "have no choice". How much can it cost to put up some form of screen, strategically placed? Or plant a few trees?

 

By the way, how much does a line of coke cost over there in the sticks?

[Stoke Potter]

 

I'd go with that too. Meeting starts at 7.30pm and finishes at 9.30pm is okay but how many do finish in under two hours? Sorry to pick on Kings Lynn again but no way would I want to stand around for forty minutes before the match even starts due to the blinking sun. Same goes for Leicester and their sun breaks. It must be my age as I get cheesed off these days with all the hanging around.

 

Yes 7.30 - 9.30 seems pretty good, not really that late for the kids, particularly at weekends.

My local track also has well known issues with sun breaks, amongst other things, but little is done to counteract any of the delays.