Attendances

[Guest]

 

Not being an avid/fanatical speedway historian myself, I wonder if perhaps you would care to clarify exactly when team racing ceased in the five countries you've named above as I can't personally recall league racing being staged in any of them. I'm sure you can provide the necessary information. From my own point of view I've always preferred team racing to individual meetings.

New Zealand - mainly in the mid 1950s.

Holland - late 1940s into early 1950s.

South Africa - late 1950s to the late 1960s.

Australia - at various ties times, especially in the early 1950s.

USA (California_ - in the early 1970 and again 1980a.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Guest

[Bryn]

New Zealand - mainly in the mid 1950s.

Holland - late 1940s into earky 1950s.

South Africa - late 1950s to the late 1960s.

Australia - at various ties times, especially in the early 1950s.

USA (California_ - in the early 1970s.

 

As I suspected then, the vast majority of the countries named ceased team racing circa/more than half a century ago. With regard to the USA, how many different tracks staged team racing in the early 1970s?

[Guest]

http://www.knmv.nl/motorsport/Nieuws-motorsport/2015/mei/dutch-speedway-league-van-start-in-veenoord/

 

Thank you for this iink which is in regard to the present attempt to popularise team/;eague racing in Holland.

The competition O refer to was in the 1950s, with several teams centred on main sports stadiums in Rotterdam and Amsterdam. The riders featured incuded internationss from England like Malcolm Craven, Eric Chitty, Phil Bishop, Les Wotton.

[customhouseregular]

 

As I suspected then, the vast majority of the countries named ceased team racing circa/more than half a century ago. With regard to the USA, how many different tracks staged team racing in the early 1970s?

I believe it was Costa Mesa, Irwindale, Ventura, Bakersfield and one other.

[Guest]

 

As I suspected then, the vast majority of the countries named ceased team racing circa/more than half a century ago. With regard to the USA, how many different tracks staged team racing in the early 1970s?

 

This previous debate on USA league racing as on the BSF may interest you. It appears there were attempts in the 1930s.

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=37958

I believe it was Costa Mesa, Irwindale, Ventura, Bakersfield and one other.

I recall that Bert Harkins was involved with this 1970s venture?

Edited November 1, 2015 by Guest

[iris123]

 

As I suspected then, the vast majority of the countries named ceased team racing circa/more than half a century ago. With regard to the USA, how many different tracks staged team racing in the early 1970s?

Exactly.Hard to link the end of those leagues with anything to do with a drop in attendance with EL/PL/NL.One of the factors often claimed is the variety of entertainment available nowadays.That clearly doesn't fit with most of those leagues

[Guest]

Exactly.Hard to link the end of those leagues with anything to do with a drop in attendance with EL/PL/NL.One of the factors often claimed is the variety of entertainment available nowadays.That clearly doesn't fit with most of those leagues

 

Could it be league racing died in these counries because the fans got fed up with that concept of speedway racing?

[iris123]

 

Could it be league racing died in these counries because the fans got fed up with that concept of speedway racing?

You might put South Africa down to political unrest.The question is was it league racing or were crowds down in all forms of racing?And could you say the restarting of leagues in say NZ, and like I posted Holland, is the start of a new interest in that concept?

Edited November 1, 2015 by iris123

[E I Addio]

I'm quite convinced that the stats would back me up.

That is one of the weaknesses in your argument. It is all about perception, unless you produce stats. Of course some tracks in some meetings improve as the meeting progresses and it has already been explained to you that in some instances it can be attributed to poor track prep but other times due to weather and a whole range of other factors . Sometimes the racing is good early on and the track goes slick later.sometime it holds up all the way through. In a sense it's no different to the wicket in a cricket match . Some start off as good batting strips and cut up later giving help to the bowlers, others become more and more lifeless as the match progresses.

 

The thread is about attendances. You have no stats to back up your assertion (it may well be right at some tracks. but not others). But there is no evidence that across the sport as a whole every track is poorly prepared so as to make head 1 processional. Attendances are falling , not just in the UK but across Swedeb and Poland as well, so for your argument to be right all of them must have poorly prepared tracks. It is obviously more complex than that.

 

Similarly , what constitutes a good spectacle is a subjective opinion, not an absolute fact. If you are unequivocally right about that how come tracks like Peterborough , the OTA and Sheffield aren't packing the crowds in anymore than Wolves. Why has the sport dropped to such a precarious level in Australiawith some of the big tracks that have had.

 

There are many reasons for falling attendances, some within the sports control, others outside the sports control such as the economy

[Humphrey Appleby]

Are we in the UK now seeing the start of a similar trend in which in a few years time what tracks are then left will be staging only individual racing, probably over a shorter season say from mid-May to mid-September, using far fewer riders than we need these days, but of a highly professional and talented nature?

 

How would a shorter season with a less certain programme of fixtures support this highly professional circus. The SGP was supposed to have evolved into a full-time circus by now, and yet it's still team racing that effectively subsidises the riders to go GP racing.

 

My view is that the end of team racing will be the end of professional speedway. Teams allow for continuity, variety and regular fixture programming which would really not happen if there were only individual meetings - plus the tactical aspects add more interest, which is even more important if you have an otherwise dull meeting.

 

You can't equate what happened in Dutch speedway donkey's years ago to current trends - which in any case was as much a result of land pressure for building in the Randstad area. No idea about the reasons in the US, but I'd imagine even in Southern California the distances are bit too far between tracks for a sustainable semi-professional competition, plus there isn't much culture in the US of fans travelling home and away to follow their sports teams (again due to the distances involved).

[oldace]

Is what is now happening to speedway in the UK following a similar pattern that has happened elsewhere in the world - that in the end people tire if team racing?

It has happened in New Zealand, South Africa, Holland - all once had flourishing league competitions with overseas riders in their club sides. League racing has also been tried to a lesser extent in Australia and the USA but eventually dropped by the local promoters.

Are we in the UK now seeing the start of a similar trend in which in a few years time what tracks are then left will be staging only individual racing:unsure:

It was more a case of league racing not taking off in the first place rather than the public growing tired of it in those countries.

[Guest]

It was more a case of league racing not taking off in the first place rather than the public growing tired of it in those countries.

 

In that case, I wonder why that was. After all, team racing is claimed to be the backbone of speedway but it only takes place in certain European countries?

[iris123]

 

In that case, I wonder why that was. After all, team racing is claimed to be the backbone of speedway but it only takes place in certain European countries?

As an historian John you should know that solo racing was the origins of the sport and in the UK the public very quickly got bored of that one dimensional aspect. and the team sport was developed to stop the early decline.That was very specific to the Uk and other countries didn't always follow suit.Some stayed mainly with solos and others copied the UK with differing levels of success.

[oldace]

As an historian John you should know that solo racing was the origins of the sport and in the UK the public very quickly got bored of that one dimensional aspect. and the team sport was developed to stop the early decline.That was very specific to the Uk and other countries didn't always follow suit.Some stayed mainly with solos and others copied the UK with differing levels of success.

Exactly right

[Humphrey Appleby]

 

In that case, I wonder why that was. After all, team racing is claimed to be the backbone of speedway but it only takes place in certain European countries?

 

I think there are a number of factors needed to make team competition a success - the primary one is a critical mass of tracks in relatively close proximity to both population centres of a certain size, and to each other. I think it's no coincidence team competition started in Britain - indeed organised professional sport as whole.

 

However, team competition requires a higher level of commitment from the riders, so if the crowds for whatever reason couldn't sustain that, then that's maybe another reason why it didn't succeed in certain countries.

[Gemini]

 

 

........Humphrey Appleby........My view is that the end of team racing will be the end of professional speedway.

 

Well, it would be the end for me as I've got no interest in individual meetings if that's all that was on offer.

[Skid Sprocket]

Would advertising on tv be any good? You know, like a proper advert... What would it cost for a small 30-45 second advert....? Anyone know if it's ever been tried?

If ever there was a ready made promotion for speedway this is it, The female presenter does a brilliant job at her first time at speedway and her day with Nicki Pedersen

http://www.questtv.co.uk/video/#4570666950001

Scroll down to find "Fifth Gear 21 Episode 8" on page 2 (or 3). After first adverts watch first 7+ mins then around 30 mins to end.

[Halifaxtiger]

It will improve the product and it's a stupid idea. Really!

If you're being stubborn about it, then change the rules just for new tracks.

So basically what you're saying is there is nothing wrong with the fundamentals? Seriously?

Ok, in a couple of sentences tell me what the problem with the sport is?

 

Its difficult enough to open a speedway track without insisting that they are of a standard size. That would mean that Weymouth, for example, would have no chance of re-opening the Wessex Stadium.

 

Tsunami is right.

 

You are right about track prep, but there is no easy answer, even though Stoke Potter seems to think there is. The first problem is that there are less and less track curators with the adequate training and experience to prepare a decent track. It is a bit of a dying art and I use the word art because it is more art

than science, in the sense that there is no hard and fast rule of how to prepare a track. Some men have a natural ability to do the job and some don't. So one thing the sport needs to address is the diminishing number of decent track men .

 

The next problem is why should anyone want to be a track curator ? There is no money in it and it's not a job that can be done in 5 minutes before the start of the meeting. It means the track man ideally has to be someone who can spare a fair amount of time for not much financial reward.

N ext is the lack of volunteer track staff at some tracks . Some venues appear to have done away with track rakers. For track to be done properly you need track rakers who work in conjunction with the tractor and understand what the curator on the tractor is doing . There is more to the job than simply dragging a rake across.

 

The final problem lies with some of the fans themselves. I have found that many of the most vociferous complainers are those who choose not to understand not to understand or learn anything about track prep because it's easier to complain if you ignore the difficulties. The reality is that British weather mean you can rarely prepare a track the same way every week.if for example there is a threat of rain or if it has been raining the track will need to be prepared differently to a warm dry evening, and sometimes preparing a track to track in difficult weather mean a compromise between less than ideal racing or not having a meeting at all.

 

Speedwáy certainly has problems that need to be addressed , there is no doubt about that, but the fact remains that British weather has always played an integral part in the product the fans see, and it is very difficult to do anything about that.

 

Anyone who believes that the quality of a track surface is not affected by the weather lives in cloud cuckoo land. However, that doesn't affect my view that not all tracks put in the amount of effort required to ensure good racing and hence attract paying customers. Good enough is good enough to them.

 

To give an example, I was down in the west country in August when we had some very heavy rain over Thursday night/Friday morning, that band continuing across across the country. It stopped raining in Plymouth at 11.00am and by 12 Ashley Taylor confirmed the meeting was on. By 4.00pm, they were watering the track and we had an excellent meeting. One track, due to ride on the Saturday, actually called their meeting off on the Friday night even though there was no rain predicted the following day. In other words, they simply couldn't be bothered to put the effort in to get the meeting on.

 

That's not good enough.

 

I'd ask the same question again: If Scunthorpe can prepare an excellent racing track virtually every week, why can't others ?

 

Tracks are usually prepped all day and have a decent racing line from heat 1, despite what Stoke Potter says. After that the racing naturally throws the dirt toward the fence, the inside then becomes bald with no grip and. unfortunately, the dirt on the outside next to the fence becomes too deep and dangerous to ride in. As with the GP's, to overcome this it is necessary to bring the dirt back in to the inside to try to maintain the same grip all over the track. As others have said, track rakers used to help with this by raking the dirt away from the fence for the tractors to collect and distribute. A meeting with no grading would be dangerous and have boring racing. As least if the dirt is brought back to the inside, it gives different racing lines which should make for varied racing lines.

 

The best track prep during a meeting that I have seen was at at Rye House in the early 00's. After every one/two races, two small tractors came out and did about two laps, both bringing the dirt back and also putting a very fine mist of water on, which gave the most consistent track possible throughout the meeting. That would not be possible these days with minimal interruption to the meeting, as the tractors would not now be allowed on the track till all the riders have cleared the track from the previous race. H & S.

 

In my experience, you are lucky if you see an entertaining heat 1.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Halifaxtiger

[E I Addio]

Anyone who believes that the quality of a track surface is not affected by the weather lives in cloud cuckoo land. However, that doesn't affect my view that not all tracks put in the amount of effort required to ensure good racing and hence attract paying customers. Good enough is good enough to them.

 

To give an example, I was down in the west country in August when we had some very heavy rain over Thursday night/Friday morning, that band continuing across across the country. It stopped raining in Plymouth at 11.00am and by 12 Ashley Taylor confirmed the meeting was on. By 4.00pm, they were watering the track and we had an excellent meeting. One track, due to ride on the Saturday, actually called their meeting off on the Friday night even though there was no rain predicted the following day. In other words, they simply couldn't be bothered to put the effort in to get the meeting on.

1.

..

 

That is fair comment, but the thread is about attendances across the sport. As I said before ,if a promotion don't put the effort in then obviously that will affect attendances at that psrtcular track but it's not going to affect attendances where tracks are well prepared.

 

The problem is that attendances across the sort and across Euriope are falling so the problems are obviously far more complex than mere local issues. The recent record of the BSPA is not helping the situation but there are other factors outside their control. Many other forms of motor sport seem to be similarly affected..

[Shale Searcher]

 

Its difficult enough to open a speedway track without insisting that they are of a standard size. That would mean that Weymouth, for example, would have no chance of re-opening the Wessex Stadium.

 

Tsunami is right.

 

 

Anyone who believes that the quality of a track surface is not affected by the weather lives in cloud cuckoo land. However, that doesn't affect my view that not all tracks put in the amount of effort required to ensure good racing and hence attract paying customers. Good enough is good enough to them.

 

To give an example, I was down in the west country in August when we had some very heavy rain over Thursday night/Friday morning, that band continuing across across the country. It stopped raining in Plymouth at 11.00am and by 12 Ashley Taylor confirmed the meeting was on. By 4.00pm, they were watering the track and we had an excellent meeting. One track, due to ride on the Saturday, actually called their meeting off on the Friday night even though there was no rain predicted the following day. In other words, they simply couldn't be bothered to put the effort in to get the meeting on.

 

That's not good enough.

 

I'd ask the same question again: If Scunthorpe can prepare an excellent racing track virtually every week, why can't others ?

 

 

In my experience, you are lucky if you see an entertaining heat 1.

 

Anomaly time......

 

With Scunthorpes perfect track, week in, week out, how come they struggle to fill the Eddie Wright Raceway on race days?

You'd think it would be packed to the rafters!! But it's not, why not?