Agrotron Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Blackbirds retired though has he not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 The issue is that the vast majority of 'guests' could be avoided in most instances with some thought... . Simply untrue. MOST guests (66% in the 2015 Elite League) are used to cover for injury, so unless you have some miraculous scheme for reducing injuries the problem remains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Simply untrue. MOST guests (66% in the 2015 Elite League) are used to cover for injury, so unless you have some miraculous scheme for reducing injuries the problem remains. So NONE of those Guest places used could have been covered with a more 'fit for purpose' suitable rider replacement rule??? Course not.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Hammer Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 At the Lakeside fans forum Jon Cook was suggesting a squad system for double-uppers & FTR's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevH Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 So NONE of those Guest places used could have been covered with a more 'fit for purpose' suitable rider replacement rule??? Course not.... Back in the day, if two teams met with a similar averaged rider missing from each team because of injury, the r/r or guest facility would be cancelled out. Each team would then promote their 'number eight' to cover for the absentees. I really can't understand why this system can't be re-introduced as it reduces guests and retains credibility for the sport, not to mention it being a useful tool for giving youngsters a chance in the team. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 ...Tier 1 riders start on converted PL average and start at reserve but gain EL average after four meetings ... What will these averages be calculated? The first 4 meetings of 2016 or the rolling average starting in 2015? If a FTR gets elevated to the main team will they be "sackable" and are the reserve berths then open to foreign imports who drop down to reserve or does another FTR candidate get the job? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deak77 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 So no new measures brought in to try and encourage the world's best riders back over here then? People actually want to see the top riders in action,crowds are falling and it's no longer attractive to pay the best part of £20 or more to see the best Grade B riders and a few youngsters racing against each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I don't see why someone can't work out what the draft riders EL averages are without the reserve races included. That would have been a sensible thing to have kept track of across the season, a shame nobody seemed to foresee this happening at the end of the year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 What will these averages be calculated? The first 4 meetings of 2016 or the rolling average starting in 2015? If a FTR gets elevated to the main team will they be "sackable" and are the reserve berths then open to foreign imports who drop down to reserve or does another FTR candidate get the job? Doesnt the 6.5 point average for new non british riders mean that this is unlikely?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 He's rode most of the season as a second string, so unlikely to be. Poole will end up with something along the lines of Holder, Dudek, Kennett, Watt, Lambert, Newman, Ellis and walk the league. They have a low averaging no 1, there won't be any decent riders coming back into the league, so if they snap up Dudek they have a massive advantage there, effectively replacing Janowski. They'll secure a bargain low average 3rd heat leader than snap up the best of the 'second strings' of which it wouldn't surprise me Watt is one of them. Normally Watt's 7+ average would be a bad thing, but with the pts limit being high (given the reserves conversions) and the averages of their heat leaders low, they'll be able to fit him in. Spot on. Fair isn't in the vocabulary though! Dudek has already said he's not doing a full season over here. Maybe come over to fill in for an injured rider or playoffs. But not from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 So no new measures brought in to try and encourage the world's best riders back over here then? People actually want to see the top riders in action,crowds are falling and it's no longer attractive to pay the best part of £20 or more to see the best Grade B riders and a few youngsters racing against each other. spot on.....no return for me again then!....just jealous of torun team sheet...nicki and emil...now theres £20 worth spending! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deak77 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I first started watching speedway in 1987,and I've seen the top division, in whatever guise,at its brilliant best,so seeing it how it is now with woefully watered down teams,is really sad. The promoters need to realise that having the top riders is just as important as developing the young riders,otherwise there won't be a top league in a few years time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevH Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I first started watching speedway in 1987,and I've seen the top division, in whatever guise,at its brilliant best,so seeing it how it is now with woefully watered down teams,is really sad. The promoters need to realise that having the top riders is just as important as developing the young riders,otherwise there won't be a top league in a few years time. I agree, but as I pointed out earlier in the thread, nothing in the rules or regulations for 2016 stops a team signing three of the top riders in the World........except maybe, ambition !!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I was told that most PL promoters were concerned at the cost of running a team in the league... so some kind of cost cutting was necessary. Some PL tracks had alarmingly low crowd figures . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Back in the day, if two teams met with a similar averaged rider missing from each team because of injury, the r/r or guest facility would be cancelled out. Each team would then promote their 'number eight' to cover for the absentees. I really can't understand why this system can't be re-introduced as it reduces guests and retains credibility for the sport, not to mention it being a useful tool for giving youngsters a chance in the team. Think it through. The only place you are going to get a number 8 in the EL is from the PL and he would have to be on a lower average than your EDR riders, without the benefit of protected heats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevH Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Think it through. The only place you are going to get a number 8 in the EL is from the PL and he would have to be on a lower average than your EDR riders, without the benefit of protected heats. After four meetings your EDR can now move up into the 1-5 if his average permits which will take him out of the protected heats anyway. Also, both teams would be in the 'same boat', so any advantage/disadvantage would be cancelled out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 After four meetings your EDR can now move up into the 1-5 if his average permits which will take him out of the protected heats anyway. Also, both teams would be in the 'same boat', so any advantage/disadvantage would be cancelled out. Your number 8 would still. Have to come from the PL and that would mean a converted PL average.Also The EDR rider CAN move up, not WILL move up so it's highly unlikely that any tier two riders will move up unless their averages are high enough Teams will only be in the same boat if they have similar riders injured at the same time time, but even that is not going to be any good to the fans to see aPL rider getting blown away in non protected heats. Then it still depends on your number 8 not having a fixture clash and not being needed by his PL club. I can still remember when Chris Mills, was number 8 forb Lakeside, couldn't cope at all, and he was probably a lot better than anyone around now with a PL average lower than the tier two riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevH Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Your number 8 would still. Have to come from the PL and that would mean a converted PL average.Also The EDR rider CAN move up, not WILL move up so it's highly unlikely that any tier two riders will move up unless their averages are high enough Teams will only be in the same boat if they have similar riders injured at the same time time, but even that is not going to be any good to the fans to see aPL rider getting blown away in non protected heats. Then it still depends on your number 8 not having a fixture clash and not being needed by his PL club. I can still remember when Chris Mills, was number 8 forb Lakeside, couldn't cope at all, and he was probably a lot better than anyone around now with a PL average lower than the tier two riders. You're missing the point here......you are trying to use the current regulations and fit things around them. My point was, back in the day things were a lot simpler, and the teams simply promoted a rider from their second half.....there's always a lesson to be learned from history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Interesting to see the initial AGM compilations for the Elite League and Premier League which dispel supporters' conjecture that Kent Kings and Rye House would go Elite League in 2016. http://www.speedwaygb.co/news.php?extend.29729 Edited October 19, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 So no new measures brought in to try and encourage the world's best riders back over here then? People actually want to see the top riders in action,crowds are falling and it's no longer attractive to pay the best part of £20 or more to see the best Grade B riders and a few youngsters racing against each other. What rule is going to magic up money? The World bets want paying. British speedway can't pay. Even if they went to one race night, once home and away the top guys still wouldn't want it, they'd find another excuse as one of them will admit they just want more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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