Crazy robin Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Great rider to watch & leaves the rest of the teams to up their game or even more fans will be lost. Not a dig at Poole as the promotors knew the rules & agreed to them no matter how much they let their own fans down by doing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrac Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 If they are under the "threshold" that the promoters mutually agreed upon then it doesn't make a mockery of the 3 heat leader concept at all, it just means that Poole are, as usual, well on the ball to make the most of the regulations. If anything it makes a mockery of the other promoters who helped create the concept and failed to take advantage of it. Spot on there. As usual a lot of doom merchants blaming Poole for winning league before it starts. If the promoters of other teams are inept at building a decent team then it's their fault, they quite simply need to get better at it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudermilk Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Good signing for Poole ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 They reckon on the Poole forum Buc is heatleader and Hans second string... Seriously confused now! Until we see who is on the heat leader list then it's all just speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Until we see who is on the heat leader list then it's all just speculation.Prob won't see it. Just have to wait til 1-5 is finished! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Prob won't see it. Just have to wait til 1-5 is finished!I think we will, eventually! And we are likely to have a situation where riders on lower averages riding in the heat leader roles still! Edited November 12, 2015 by stevebrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Wow, didn't see that one coming, very happy pirate, great signing very exiting to watch, i know he didn't pull up too many trees at Leicester but with a full season i am sure he will prove to be a terrific signing, never gives up, a bit like Kacper but with more ability and i hope he Kacper return s too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Ah, statement on Poole site has changed now apparently. Both that and the Echo say Buc is heatleader. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Matt Ford states that Buzz will start as a heat leader and expects him to stay a heat leader! So with speculation from one or two that Brady Kurtz is a 'shoe-in' on 5.24, that leaves 15.23 for the final 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Chris Holder and Davey Watt? That'd make sense. Watt has quite a high average but is a second string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 So Buzz on 6.48 is a heat leader but Watt (if he is signed) is a second string??! Don't think so - but then I don't think it'll be Holder and Watt anyway. But would be happy if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 That'd make sense. Watt has quite a high average but is a second string.If Watt is a second string it will be interesting to see who the 24 heatleaders ranked above him are. Davey has his howlers, but if he gets in as a second string he will be more of a key player in that role than Bucs ever is as heatleader Also if the remaining ones are Kurtz Watt and Holder , it makes Poole a very good side but not the virtually invincible side people are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 So Buzz on 6.48 is a heat leader but Watt (if he is signed) is a second string??! Don't think so - but then I don't think it'll be Holder and Watt anyway. But would be happy if I'm wrong. Depends if it's done on averages or last seasons riding positions or a mixture of both!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 So Buzz on 6.48 is a heat leader but Watt (if he is signed) is a second string??! Don't think so - but then I don't think it'll be Holder and Watt anyway. But would be happy if I'm wrong. Yes. Exactly that. They got it wrong calling it a heat leader list, it's confusing people. The list should be tier 1 and tier 2 riders. you can only have 3 riders form tier 1, a tier 1 rider is someone who has a lower average due to riding as a heatleader. A tier 2 rider is someone who has a higher average due to riding as a second string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 Yes. Exactly that. They got it wrong calling it a heat leader list, it's confusing people. The list should be tier 1 and tier 2 riders. you can only have 3 riders form tier 1, a tier 1 rider is someone who has a lower average due to riding as a heatleader. A tier 2 rider is someone who has a higher average due to riding as a second string. I'm glad you can understand what's going on, because I'm buggered if I can ,along with a few others I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 If they are under the "threshold" that the promoters mutually agreed upon then it doesn't make a mockery of the 3 heat leader concept at all, it just means that Poole are, as usual, well on the ball to make the most of the regulations. If anything it makes a mockery of the other promoters who helped create the concept and failed to take advantage of it. If they are under the "threshold" that the promoters mutually agreed upon then it doesn't make a mockery of the 3 heat leader concept at all, it just means that Poole are, as usual, well on the ball to make the most of the regulations. If anything it makes a mockery of the other promoters who helped create the concept and failed to take advantage of it. Spot on there. As usual a lot of doom merchants blaming Poole for winning league before it starts. If the promoters of other teams are inept at building a decent team then it's their fault, they quite simply need to get better at it. Of course it makes a mockery of the HL concept if Hans or Bucz are not on the HL list. The reason the HL list is needed is becaucse, as SCB has pointed out, riders who have ridden as HL have artifically low average. So the criteria for a HL should be having ridden x% of meetings a a HL in 2015 (or 2014 if that is the source of CMA). Otherwise you could have a legitimate team of something like Woffinden Holder Andersen Nicholls Bjerre Newman Ellis If the criteria is simply a cut off average, there is absolutely no point in having a heat leader list.Zero point. I've already stated that that is not a criticism of Poole. If there is an average based cut off criteria, then every promoter who voted for it is to blame, just as they are for the ludicrous rule that converted PL averages are used for the FTR reserves. What it would prove is that the majority of promoters do not have clue of the implications of the rules they vote for, or Ford has some hold over them. No question Ford is the best of them at team building. If Holder,Watt and Kurtz are Poole's remaining signings, then I have zero issue as Watt and Kurtz would be rightly classed as strings (though it is still ridiculous that Newman comes in on one of the lowest tier reserve 1 averages). I'm glad you can understand what's going on, because I'm buggered if I can ,along with a few others I think. and that is the worrying thing, how few speedway fans seem to "get" averages. And more worrying still, how few promoters and managers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) So Buzz on 6.48 is a heat leader but Watt (if he is signed) is a second string??! Don't think so - but then I don't think it'll be Holder and Watt anyway. But would be happy if I'm wrong. It Can't be Holder Watt and Kurtz that's half a point below the limit. Why have Kurtz when you can have Kacper. Edited November 12, 2015 by foreverblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) I don't necessarily agree with all that you say. If the published averages (BSPA website) are not to be used - whether in an agreed HL list or not - whats the point of publishing the figures. Davey Watt (for example) has spent the vast majority of his recent EL career as an EL heat leader, as has Hans Andersen. If some sort of official figure is not used to differentiate between riders then it simply comes down to someone's opinion, as to who appears where on any list or not. Why should a fan's opinion be any more relevant than the promoters or some BSPA/SCB administrator - as long as it is agreed by all clubs before the team building begins? You will never get all fans to agree on everything - as this forum demonstrates in every thread every day!! The point is that the promoters have agreed such lists (with a maximum of 3 heat leaders from that list) and it is they that build the teams starting from the same position. Edited November 12, 2015 by Skidder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 there should be a definitive cut off official figure), but that should be on number of meetings ridden as a HL in generating the riders CMA, not the CMA itself. Otherwise, please explain what benefit having a list of HL brings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirates Of Poole Posted November 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 So we could look like this.... 1.Holder 7.47 2.Brady 5.24 3.Buzz 6.48 4.Hans 6.45 5.? 7.76 6. Newman 4.10 7. Ellis 3.00 Leaves 7.76 for last rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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