waiheke1 Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Most people's view ? A few on here maybe that want to jump,the gun but until we see the list, know how long it is, and what the criteria was ( assuming it wasn't just guesswork) I don't think anyone can say whether he should or shouldn't be on it. I am mystified as to how Danny King coukd be on there and not Davey, ( if it's true that Danny is on there) but it's difficult to say without seeing who else is on it. TBF, the rationale presented was that it was due to distortion of averages due to heat format. On that basis, the only sensible way to differentiate a HL would be number of meetings ridden as a HL last year (or 2014 if that is the source of the average). therfore Watt shouldn't be aa HL, Buzz should be, and King was marginal either way. If the aim was nothing to do with distorted averages, but was instead to make sure that HL were evenly spread, that changes things. If we take SCB's excellent "weighted averages", then Danny King is nowhere near the top 18 riders (assuming the 18 rider bit is accurate) from last year. Watt was about 22nd, so if you remove Puk, Magic and Ward he is still just outside the 18. Buzz clearly should be a HL, but it is quite possible that Ford has got one over the other promoters by getting them to agree to 6.5 as a HL cut off for riders who weren't in the EL last year - the other promoters have noone to blame but themselves if this is the case. Noting the above, it would seem that Watt shouldn't be classed as a HL under either approach. I have no issues whatsoever if Poole have both Watt and Buzz in their line up. BUT - how confident are people that Watt will be in the Poole team? North tbh would seem a better option based on performances last year, and thats before you factor in the fact he is on a much lower average. Ford is a very canny team builder, and if he has got Buzz in as a second string it would be surprising for him to "waste" that advantage by choosing Watt, when he could get much better options with the available points, especially given that finances would not seem to be as much of an issue as they are for other teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 No, we believe there are 18 riders on it because that's what CVS said ( I think it was CVS ) and while I accept that he is one of the more reliable promoters in his announcements, despite being the target of all kinds of abuse by some on here, this is still Speedwáy so I personally prefer to wait till we see the list in black and white. Unfortunately the discussion on here has been generating more heat than light so far, partly by the pronouncements of some who think they are "in the know" when they clearly are not, and partly because of the hyperbole of some who clearly cannot read a simple press release. The heatleader list is obviously not a definitive list of who is a heatleader and who is a second string. It is merely an attempt to ensure that there is a reasonable spread of riders and reasonable competitiveness between teams. Whether it is successful in those objectives remains to be seen, but there are bound to be a few anomalies or a few that some fans think are wrong, but the acid test is the general competitiveness of the final line ups when all are finally announced. EDIT: the comparison between Davey and Danny is a case in point. Personally I would have Davey over Danny any day , but others will have a different view, so we are unlikely to get a list that everyone thinks is great, but we can only judge it when we see it. Personally speaking I can't see why CVS would have shared that bit of information if it wasn't true, particularly given he batted off other questions about the secrecy of the list, plus it's in the public domain. I agree that only publication of the list will confirm information for us all. ps. No Poole place for Kacper Gomolski in 2016 - and doesn't want to ride for any one else so no EL at all. So will if the money is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Just quoting from his tweet!! Sounds as though he's turned down other EL options already!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRushbrook Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 It's all very well having all these riders who will 'only ride for Poole' but eventually it will completely dilute the league to the point there is no opposition to you at all. Each to their own but personally, I wouldn't want that. No opposition equals no league, no speedway, and eventually no Poole either. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 It's all very well having all these riders who will 'only ride for Poole' but eventually it will completely dilute the league to the point there is no opposition to you at all. Each to their own but personally, I wouldn't want that. No opposition equals no league, no speedway, and eventually no Poole either. No, but ask yourself the question, WHY, do riders want to ride for Poole ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Just quoting from his tweet!! Sounds as though he's turned down other EL options already!!! Personally i would much prefer to see Kacper back at Poole than Brady Kurtz, he was terrific last season and fantastic in the play offs, his ride in heat 14 at Wimborne Road in the play off final will live long in the memory.I know Kurtz is a up and coming rider but Kacper is proven at EL level and i feel it may be a year too soon for Brady. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRushbrook Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 No, but ask yourself the question, WHY, do riders want to ride for Poole ? I have and I know the answer. But that isn't the point I'm making. We all know that Poole is an attractive proposition for most riders and I have no problem with that. However, if every rider took the same stance, where would that leave speedway...and Poole speedway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 TBF, the rationale presented was that it was due to distortion of averages due to heat format. On that basis, the only sensible way to differentiate a HL would be number of meetings ridden as a HL last year (or 2014 if that is the source of the average). therfore Watt shouldn't be aa HL, Buzz should be, and King was marginal either By all means correct me if I am missing something or being obtuse, but surely the amount of time a rider spends as heat-leader depends on the strength of the rest of the team . For example if Dave Watt had ridden for a Leicester or Wolves the chances are he would have spent a lot longer as heatleader than he did at Poole. It surely also depends on injuries. Kim Nilsson had only just been elevated to heatleader when he was injured and therefore missed a number of meetings in a heatleader role. That can make all the difference to the assessment couldn't it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I have and I know the answer. But that isn't the point I'm making. We all know that Poole is an attractive proposition for most riders and I have no problem with that. However, if every rider took the same stance, where would that leave speedway...and Poole speedway? It is up to other promotions to make their clubs attractive propositions and it isn't all about money although being paid on time has been a issue for some riders but it is about being happy in a successful side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daytripper Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 No, but ask yourself the question, WHY, do riders want to ride for Poole ? Andreas Jonsson doesn't thats why he turned them down when they tried to nobble him a few months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 By all means correct me if I am missing something or being obtuse, but surely the amount of time a rider spends as heat-leader depends on the strength of the rest of the team . For example if Dave Watt had ridden for a Leicester or Wolves the chances are he would have spent a lot longer as heatleader than he did at Poole. It surely also depends on injuries. Kim Nilsson had only just been elevated to heatleader when he was injured and therefore missed a number of meetings in a heatleader role. That can make all the difference to the assessment couldn't it ? Not at all as the point is their averages have either increased or decreased dependant upon the number of meetings as a heat leader.. that is what it all boils down to, the distortion of averages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickRushbrook Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 It is up to other promotions to make their clubs attractive propositions and it isn't all about money although being paid on time has been a issue for some riders but it is about being happy in a successful side. I have made no suggestion about money being any kind of factor. Believe it or not, this isn't a pop at Poole. However, if Poole continue with their 'the hell with everyone else' attitude, you /they may find themselves very lonely at some point in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I have made no suggestion about money being any kind of factor. Believe it or not, this isn't a pop at Poole. However, if Poole continue with their 'the hell with everyone else' attitude, you /they may find themselves very lonely at some point in the future. What do you suggest we let everyone else have first pick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damosuzuki Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 I can understand why someone would go to Poole because it was the best deal, but don't understand if they said 'I'd only ride for Poole' - what's the reason for that. IE are they saying if Coventry offered me more money / a better deal I'd still only ride for Poole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirates Of Poole Posted December 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Andreas Jonsson doesn't thats why he turned them down when they tried to nobble him a few months ago. That is true, he was down in the office 7 weeks back. Edited December 1, 2015 by Pirates Of Poole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 No, but ask yourself the question, WHY, do riders want to ride for Poole ? not all riders do.... i remember ford saying he found it very hard to sign someone to fill the place left by miedzinski when he left mid way through the season he reeled off a list of riders he contacted all declined ...... then kasprazak changed his mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Not at all as the point is their averages have either increased or decreased dependant upon the number of meetings as a heat leader.. that is what it all boils down to, the distortion of averages. Ok, I sort of get it but I still think there will be some anomalies, but maths is not my strong point. We'll see what the final list says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Panda Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 not all riders do.... i remember ford saying he found it very hard to sign someone to fill the place left by miedzinski when he left mid way through the season he reeled off a list of riders he contacted all declined ...... then kasprazak changed his mind... Does it occur to you that they could have declined because of other commitments...............not just because it was Poole that approached them............... RP 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Still see the same old guff trotted out by the same usual suspects. Not tarring true fans here but not everybody only wants to ride for Poole and Poole only but thats how some people see it. There are always riders who wouldnt ride for Poole , Jonsson Woffinden for example, think you might also struggle to get Doyle to ever ride there. Poole are no more special to ride for than any other club. Look at Cook at Belle Vue, loves the club. Certain Poole fans are happy to win the league and stuff the sport. They are not speedway fans at all. And again this isnt every Poole fan and the forum members can quite easily name who they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Ok, I sort of get it but I still think there will be some anomalies, but maths is not my strong point. We'll see what the final list says. there will certainly be some anomalies, because i very much doubt the list will have been fully thought through by those responsible for implementing it. However, in terms of what the list should do, it's limit the number of riders with distorted averages a team can have. But, given that PK is apparently not on the list, and Danny King is, it would seem they have taken some random approach, possibly just subjective opinions on who is and isn't a heat leader. Which renders the whole point of the list pretty much obsolete. Either way, if Poole end up with Watt and Holder as their final two signings I don't think anyone can have complaints, and it doesn't look (at thsi stage) like any other team is going to end up with 4 riders who should have been classed as HL. If however Poole name Holder and Shamek/Lindback/Dudek/Vaculik/other toprider as their remaining signings, then the title can be awarded now and the BSPA roundly castigated for their ineptness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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