ColinMills Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Sorry there no insult here ...my point is a good one in that all the people moaning are all of a certain age group ...all are over 55 and scared of change or dont like change and that is the real reason they don't like plays offs gp etc not the poor reasons they put forward ..it's not insult it's a valid point . It you took away over 55's then this topic would lasted about one page . im 47....so your wrong AGAIN AND IF you took away the over 55s from speedway, you wouldn't have a sport!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Sorry there no insult here ...my point is a good one in that all the people moaning are all of a certain age group ...all are over 55 and scared of change or dont like change and that is the real reason they don't like plays offs gp etc not the poor reasons they put forward ..it's not insult it's a valid point . It you took away over 55's then this topic would lasted about one page . If you took the over 55's away from Speedway orion - Speedway would probably not exist in this Country. Something to ponder surely. People like myself are not afraid of change, as long as it is for the better. I just do not think that the Play Offs overall have not been good for Speedway. As I said to BW earlier - I cannot actually prove my point - but as far as I am concerned, neither can/has he. I take note of the excellent final sentence of guitar_art's first class Post No: 894. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Orion had better go fetch BW, hes struggling on his own! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I take note of the excellent final sentence of guitar_art's first class Post No: 894. Guitar Art hasn't made one single first class post on the thread. A lot of long convoluted waffle yes, but absolutely no substance. He just has a chip on his shoulder because Birmingham lost in the playoffs in the Elite League and lost the meaningless Gold Cup meetings. His witterings about 'home track advantage' in a tie over 2 leagues are a joke. It does not matter how he twists it, the National League AND the Premier League, under no pressure at all from outside sources have both decided that the playoffs is the best system for their leagues. Now he would have us believe they've decided to introduce something that is not financially a success for them.. absolute nonsense. THEY have access to the figures and THEY have decided the playoffs is the way to go. Whether it was unanimous or not is irrelevant, the fact is the MAJORITY voted for it. That is FACT. That is REALITY. Old time speedway fans are a major part of the problem in the sport, promoters spend too much time pandering too them. Once they are gone the sport can re-invent itself and move forwards, like most other sports have done. Before you have another pop I consider myself an old time speedway fan.. A point that has escaped most of your attention is what I have said all along, I PREFERRED the old system too. However, I am not blind to the benefits of the new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) If you took the over 55's away from Speedway orion - Speedway would probably not exist in this Country. Something to ponder surely. People like myself are not afraid of change, as long as it is for the better. I just do not think that the Play Offs overall have not been good for Speedway. As I said to BW earlier - I cannot actually prove my point - but as far as I am concerned, neither can/has he. I take note of the excellent final sentence of guitar_art's first class Post No: 894. So what do like about speedway that has come in ...the play offs ? GP'S ? Sky tv ? double points ? . Edited December 5, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Guitar Art hasn't made one single first class post on the thread. A lot of long convoluted waffle yes, but absolutely no substance. He just has a chip on his shoulder because Birmingham lost in the playoffs in the Elite League and lost the meaningless Gold Cup meetings. His witterings about 'home track advantage' in a tie over 2 leagues are a joke. It does not matter how he twists it, the National League AND the Premier League, under no pressure at all from outside sources have both decided that the playoffs is the best system for their leagues. Now he would have us believe they've decided to introduce something that is not financially a success for them.. absolute nonsense. THEY have access to the figures and THEY have decided the playoffs is the way to go. Whether it was unanimous or not is irrelevant, the fact is the MAJORITY voted for it. That is FACT. That is REALITY. Old time speedway fans are a major part of the problem in the sport, promoters spend too much time pandering too them. Once they are gone the sport can re-invent itself and move forwards, like most other sports have done. Before you have another pop I consider myself an old time speedway fan.. A point that has escaped most of your attention is what I have said all along, I PREFERRED the old system too. However, I am not blind to the benefits of the new one. Guitar Art hasn't made one single first class post on the thread. A lot of long convoluted waffle yes, but absolutely no substance. He just has a chip on his shoulder because Birmingham lost in the playoffs in the Elite League and lost the meaningless Gold Cup meetings. His witterings about 'home track advantage' in a tie over 2 leagues are a joke. It does not matter how he twists it, the National League AND the Premier League, under no pressure at all from outside sources have both decided that the playoffs is the best system for their leagues. Now he would have us believe they've decided to introduce something that is not financially a success for them.. absolute nonsense. THEY have access to the figures and THEY have decided the playoffs is the way to go. Whether it was unanimous or not is irrelevant, the fact is the MAJORITY voted for it. That is FACT. That is REALITY. Old time speedway fans are a major part of the problem in the sport, promoters spend too much time pandering too them. Once they are gone the sport can re-invent itself and move forwards, like most other sports have done. Before you have another pop I consider myself an old time speedway fan.. A point that has escaped most of your attention is what I have said all along, I PREFERRED the old system too. However, I am not blind to the benefits of the new one. how are the older fans pandered?...agree that marketing the sport towards ALL ages may help. it appear, very limited promotion takes place. (for the promoters that do) I apologise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 So what do like about speedway that has come in ...the play offs ? the one off world final ? Sky tv ? double points ? That's a very good question orion - one which I am very much struggling to answer. Bit puzzled by the 'One Off' World Final that you reference - if only it would come back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 snap again twk! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) That's a very good question orion - one which I am very much struggling to answer. Bit puzzled by the 'One Off' World Final that you reference - if only it would come back. Sorry I done a quick edit ..you were quick off the mark there Edited December 5, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Orion had better go fetch BW, hes struggling on his own! He's not on his own. He has the following on his side. Elite League Premier League National League Danish Speedway League Swedish Elitserien Swedish Allsvenskan Swedish Division One Polish Ektraliga Poland Pierwsza Liga Poland Druga Liga + the 4 x as many fans that show up for Playoff Finals. As well as that we'll throw in Aviva Premiership in Rugby Union Guiness Pro 12 in Rugby Union Super League in Rugby League Premier League Darts AFL - Aussie Rules Football NFL - American Football MLB - Major League Baseball NHL - Ice Hockey NBA - Basketball Nascar - Auto Racing Football - promotion and relegation, various leagues around the world. + of course Both Rugby Codes in Australia and New Zeland Ever increasing forms of cricket including India Premier League So essentially every single major league in speedway operates playoffs... almost every team sport on the planet operates playoffs... but a few old timers think they know better than all the millions of people involved in those events around the world. To conclude, have this little threads to yourselves to bleat your nonsense because out their, in the real world, playoffs are here to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Well that should be the end of the Discussion BW. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 your side kick just brought up the double points and sky tv, suggesting we don't like those either? double points is utterly pathetic. And is there proof of any degree that sky sports has benefitted speedway financially? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 You forgot Darts ...surely all these people who runs these leagues must be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_art Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 You don't see the evindence..what age group would you say that the people who have moan about the play offs are on here .like sid and ian etc ? the bottom line without the over 55 this topic would have died a lot ago . unless you can show me otherwise I have to be honest and say I cant show you otherwise.(Of course niether can you.) I will set up a poll like I threatened before sometime over the weekend and that may give us some kind of answer. However I still cant see the relevance unless you are arguing (and I am sure you are not) that a view honestly held by someone over 55 is in some way lesser to that of someone younger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Well that should be the end of the Discussion BW. hes had more comebacks than frank Sinatra! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_art Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 He's not on his own. He has the following on his side. Elite League Premier League National League Danish Speedway League Swedish Elitserien Swedish Allsvenskan Swedish Division One Polish Ektraliga Poland Pierwsza Liga Poland Druga Liga + the 4 x as many fans that show up for Playoff Finals. As well as that we'll throw in Aviva Premiership in Rugby Union Guiness Pro 12 in Rugby Union Super League in Rugby League Premier League Darts AFL - Aussie Rules Football NFL - American Football MLB - Major League Baseball NHL - Ice Hockey NBA - Basketball Nascar - Auto Racing Football - promotion and relegation, various leagues around the world. + of course Both Rugby Codes in Australia and New Zeland Ever increasing forms of cricket including India Premier League So essentially every single major league in speedway operates playoffs... almost every team sport on the planet operates playoffs... but a few old timers think they know better than all the millions of people involved in those events around the world. To conclude, have this little threads to yourselves to bleat your nonsense because out their, in the real world, playoffs are here to stay. Again what is the relevance of my age? Why are people trying to turn this into young v old. (Have to tell you as an 'oldun' experience wins every day ) Your last sentence contributed nothing to the debate so why say it? And you are now telling me you can see the future. Here to stay? Who knows I don't. Who knows if we even have speedway leagues in this country in the future. Yes I concede all those other leagues have play offs. So what? It proves nothing. None of those sports are motor sport and do not have the unique to speedway factor of home track advantage. (Not to the same level at any rate.) This point has not been addressed and is the reason for my assertion that the play offs have a built in bias towards tracks with a greater amount of home track advantage. This advantage has actually been increased due to the dropping of any tactical element to matches. That is what makes it fundamentally unfair. That is the issue I have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Again what is the relevance of my age? Why are people trying to turn this into young v old. (Have to tell you as an 'oldun' experience wins every day ) Your last sentence contributed nothing to the debate so why say it? And you are now telling me you can see the future. Here to stay? Who knows I don't. Who knows if we even have speedway leagues in this country in the future. Yes I concede all those other leagues have play offs. So what? It proves nothing. None of those sports are motor sport and do not have the unique to speedway factor of home track advantage. (Not to the same level at any rate.) This point has not been addressed and is the reason for my assertion that the play offs have a built in bias towards tracks with a greater amount of home track advantage. This advantage has actually been increased due to the dropping of any tactical element to matches. That is what makes it fundamentally unfair. That is the issue I have. That is my major objection to them too. The other points, though relevent, cannot be proved 100% that is my contention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Again what is the relevance of my age? Why are people trying to turn this into young v old. (Have to tell you as an 'oldun' experience wins every day ) Your last sentence contributed nothing to the debate so why say it? And you are now telling me you can see the future. Here to stay? Who knows I don't. Who knows if we even have speedway leagues in this country in the future. Yes I concede all those other leagues have play offs. So what? It proves nothing. None of those sports are motor sport and do not have the unique to speedway factor of home track advantage. (Not to the same level at any rate.) This point has not been addressed and is the reason for my assertion that the play offs have a built in bias towards tracks with a greater amount of home track advantage. This advantage has actually been increased due to the dropping of any tactical element to matches. That is what makes it fundamentally unfair. That is the issue I have. Great post ART,Mister Witcher has proved nothing waffling on in his own sad little bubble but no real facts just his OPINION.His son Orion wil reply soon he has not got a opinion of his own he reminds me of the record Silence is Golden with the lyrics ( follow like sheep!!!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_art Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Guitar Art hasn't made one single first class post on the thread. A lot of long convoluted waffle yes, but absolutely no substance. He just has a chip on his shoulder because Birmingham lost in the playoffs in the Elite League and lost the meaningless Gold Cup meetings. His witterings about 'home track advantage' in a tie over 2 leagues are a joke. It does not matter how he twists it, the National League AND the Premier League, under no pressure at all from outside sources have both decided that the playoffs is the best system for their leagues. Now he would have us believe they've decided to introduce something that is not financially a success for them.. absolute nonsense. THEY have access to the figures and THEY have decided the playoffs is the way to go. Whether it was unanimous or not is irrelevant, the fact is the MAJORITY voted for it. That is FACT. That is REALITY. Old time speedway fans are a major part of the problem in the sport, promoters spend too much time pandering too them. Once they are gone the sport can re-invent itself and move forwards, like most other sports have done. Before you have another pop I consider myself an old time speedway fan.. A point that has escaped most of your attention is what I have said all along, I PREFERRED the old system too. However, I am not blind to the benefits of the new one. I am not going to address the fact that most of this post is actually personal remarks about me and therefore against the rules. I really am pissing in the rain with that one. It is sad though. However I do have to agree with the remark that old time fans are a problem. Well sort of. We are not the problem. The problem is more that there are not enough of the younger generation coming through. And the problem is not that promoters are catering toward the older generation. More that they are not really catering toward any generation and just hoping that people come through the gates. I have long held the view that the speedway environment is far to adult oriented and needs more to attract and keep the younger generations. I have some idea's on this front but will keep them to myself for the moment as I am about to make some suggestions to my local club. I will say that Technology is not exploited to its full. As for not having made any contributions there are plenty on here that seem to agree that I have. I believe I have only made one contribution. One that no one has answered. If I have waffled (and it is something that I have been accused of before.) I have at least done so in a respectful manner. Its a shame others can not say the same. Edited December 5, 2015 by guitar_art 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted December 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 That is my major objection to them too. The other points, though relevent, cannot be proved 100% that is my contention. I am sure most of us realise the play/offs are ok WK, but in football and most sports the CHAMPION is rewarded which surely is fair .The only point Witcher has got right is that we all know the rules before the competition starts but does that make it RIGHT.? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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