topsoil Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 whilst this cant/wont happen in speedway, maybe if proper relegation/promotion was in this sport, then the WHOLE season would be "meaningful", which I think this thread shows. Teams wouldn't "see out" the season, and both ends would have something to race for, thus giving March to September a proper purpose. But with speedway, we have promotions choosing to stay put in lower leagues (for obvious reasons). Agree with a lot of this post, but, as you say, there is very little possibility in promotion / relegation in speedway. When you look at other sports, such as football and rugby union, the one thing that strikes you is the massive incentive to get to the top league, in the revenue from TV deals. There is no such incentive in speedway, in fact, there is more incentive to stay in the Premier League, because of reduced costs. If there was a big TV deal in place, or if you could guarantee bigger attendances in the Elite League, then there would be a bigger possibility of promotion / relegation coming into place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Agree with a lot of this post, but, as you say, there is very little possibility in promotion / relegation in speedway. When you look at other sports, such as football and rugby union, the one thing that strikes you is the massive incentive to get to the top league, in the revenue from TV deals. There is no such incentive in speedway, in fact, there is more incentive to stay in the Premier League, because of reduced costs. If there was a big TV deal in place, or if you could guarantee bigger attendances in the Elite League, then there would be a bigger possibility of promotion / relegation coming into place. Correct that is why the plays offs are even more important in Speedway . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Agree with a lot of this post, but, as you say, there is very little possibility in promotion / relegation in speedway. When you look at other sports, such as football and rugby union, the one thing that strikes you is the massive incentive to get to the top league, in the revenue from TV deals. There is no such incentive in speedway, in fact, there is more incentive to stay in the Premier League, because of reduced costs. If there was a big TV deal in place, or if you could guarantee bigger attendances in the Elite League, then there would be a bigger possibility of promotion / relegation coming into place. Promotion and regulation was tried back during the days of the 'Mervyn Stewkesbury Administration' and it lasted, if I recall, for two seasons. The first season Swindon, having finished bottom, refused to be relegated but did the following season. It was never very practical, in real terms, as obviously 'Star Riders' wouldn't accept dropping a league and team strengths had to be adjusted requiring some form of rider control and/or movement between the two leagues. I admired, at the time, the thought processes involved but it was never going to work to suit all parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Promotion and regulation was tried back during the days of the 'Mervyn Stewkesbury Administration' and it lasted, if I recall, for two seasons. The first season Swindon, having finished bottom, refused to be relegated but did the following season. It was never very practical, in real terms, as obviously 'Star Riders' wouldn't accept dropping a league and team strengths had to be adjusted requiring some form of rider control and/or movement between the two leagues. I admired, at the time, the thought processes involved but it was never going to work to suit all parties. Promotion and relegation is pointless unless there are more teams trying to get into the top level than there are places. It's generally bad for business planning anyway, but it works in football because there are plenty of teams to replace the fallen. In British speedway though, it's cloud cuckoo stuff. Edited November 27, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... ? and how do think speedway clubs will run without money ....so play offs and how they keep the season alive and make have plenty to do with logic ..as for the fans most in all sports want and love the play offs and it only tends to be the over 55's who don't like them . Edited November 27, 2015 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... Correct so their existence is entirely logical.. If the play-offs generate more money, why would scrapping them be beneficial to the sport? Edited November 27, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... You seem to be understanding it now. The fans clamour to the play offs, the matches preceding them now have more meaning so they attract bigger crowds, these bigger crowds generate ? So now you acknowledge this why would anyone suggest doing away with them ? and how do think speedway clubs will run without money ....so play offs and how keep the season alive and make have plenty to do with logic ..as for the fans most in all sports want and love the play offs and it only tends to be the over 55's who don't like them . Hey, not all of us !!!!!! Actually speedway, or any sport, shouldn't pander to the Luddite aspect. To be honest speedway, if it was properly presented should have no interest to a large chunk of its current audience but it should seek a whole new audience. Exactly like Barry Hearn did for the PDC. He wasn't interested in the few hundred pensioners sitting knitting in muted silence nursing a milk stout while watching what passed as darts 25 years ago. He knew the show he wanted to present would appall them, the point is at the expense of a few hundred coffin dodgers he attracted a whole new audience with a vibrant, noisy night out Edited November 27, 2015 by Oldace 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... They make more money because more people attend. Thus they are only a positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Actually there is an argument. Why do you think crowds are down in speedway? Not because the modern consumer is an idiot, quite the opposite.. they are far more savvy and want more bang for their buck. Well the advent of 'Play Offs', 'Double Points' et al has certainly been a startling success at NOT bringing people back to Speedway. Unless the 'Play Off' Gate money is shared out around the Track, which I don't believe it is, then they don't exactly benefit the whole Sport do they? Just those Clubs who are in said Play Offs. Play-off's has nothing to do with Logic, they have nothing to do with what's best for the sport, It doesn't matter who is the best, or what they deserve..... they don't even think about the Fans or the Riders. The ONLY reason why we have play-offs is MONEY. End of.... I basically agree with this. It's the money - not the Sport that matters. ? and how do think speedway clubs will run without money ....so play offs and how they keep the season alive and make have plenty to do with logic ..as for the fans most in all sports want and love the play offs and it only tends to be the over 55's who don't like them . And yet you keep telling us that it is only the 'old fogies' who go to Speedway these days. You can't have it both ways. :nono: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Well the advent of 'Play Offs', 'Double Points' et al has certainly been a startling success at NOT bringing people back to Speedway. Unless the 'Play Off' Gate money is shared out around the Track, which I don't believe it is, then they don't exactly benefit the whole Sport do they? Just those Clubs who are in said Play Offs. I basically agree with this. It's the money - not the Sport that matters. And yet you keep telling us that it is only the 'old fogies' who go to Speedway these days. You can't have it both ways. :nono: The only one wanting it 'both ways' is you... You keep telling us how the playoffs aren't successful, then you claim they are only there for the money.... I'm afraid you can't have both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 The only one wanting it 'both ways' is you... You keep telling us how the playoffs aren't successful, then you claim they are only there for the money.... I'm afraid you can't have both. I have never argued that the 'Play Offs' don't make money. I have never said that they aren't successful. As regards resurrecting Speedway from the Ashes though - they are singularly unsuccessful as is evidenced by ever decreasing Gates - apart from said 'Play Offs'. My argument has always been that they are not right or fair. I stick to that. If you look over all of my Posts regarding the 'Play Offs' I have consistently said that they are all about MONEY. So - as you can see - I don't want it both ways. So - you see BW - once again you are wrong. I don't expect you to admit it though. You never do!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g13webb Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) You seem to be understanding it now. The fans clamour to the play offs, the matches preceding them now have more meaning so they attract bigger crowds, these bigger crowds generate ? So now you acknowledge this why would anyone suggest doing away with them Hey, not all of us !!!!!! Actually speedway, or any sport, shouldn't pander to the Luddite aspect. To be honest speedway, if it was properly presented should have no interest to a large chunk of its current audience but it should seek a whole new audience. Exactly like Barry Hearn did for the PDC. He wasn't interested in the few hundred pensioners sitting knitting in muted silence nursing a milk stout while watching what passed as darts 25 years ago. He knew the show he wanted to present would appall them, the point is at the expense of a few hundred coffin dodgers he attracted a whole new audience with a vibrant, noisy night out Listen, if it wasn't for us 'Coffin Dodgers' the sport would have died years ago.... There's not many, who attended more meetings than I over the last 20 years. Have huge respect for Barry Hearn and what he has achieved, but he would never be allowed to turn our sport into the modern times because the BSPA wouldn't want him too. The problems with Speedway has nothing to do with Coffin Dodgers, and I resent the implications. IF the sport was more creditable, and all the Promoters thought of the sport first, probably then they could entice more people to attain. But while they think only of themselves, they continue to complicate the rules and belittle the important of bread and butter leagues matches the 'Micky Mouse' existence will continue..... Edited November 27, 2015 by GRW123 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Listen, if it wasn't for us 'Coffin Dodgers' the sport would have died years ago.... There's not many, who attended more meetings than I over the last 20 years. Have huge respect for Barry Hearn and what he has achieved, but he would never be allowed to turn our sport into the modern times because the BSPA wouldn't want him too. The problems with Speedway has nothing to do with Coffin Dodgers, and I resent the implications. IF the sport was more creditable, and all the Promoters thought of the sport first, probably then they could entice more people to attain. But while they continue to complicate the rules and belittle the important of bread and butter leagues matches the 'Micky Mouse' existence will continue..... Terrific Post GRW123. :approve: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Terrific Post GRW123. :approve: Were you happy when the sport brought by the white helmet color? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Were you happy when the sport brought by the white helmet color? Pardon - I don't understand? I'll take a guess. Yes - I was happy when the White Helmet Cover was reinstated. Only problem was that under lights you could not distinguish between Yellow and White. Back to Yellow/Black now. Believe it or not - I am happy with that too. It should never have been changed in the first place. I know it is only a small thing, and in the great scheme of things means very little - but yes - I do approve. EDIT: The word is Colour not Color unless you are American - are you? Edited November 27, 2015 by The White Knight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Pardon - I don't understand? I'll take a guess. Yes - I was happy when the White Helmet Cover was reinstated. Only problem was that under lights you could not distinguish between Yellow and White. Back to Yellow/Black now. Believe it or not - I am happy with that too. It should never have been changed in the first place. I know it is only a small thing, and in the great scheme of things means very little - but yes - I do approve. EDIT: The word is Colour not Color unless you are American - are you? Glad to see that the Yellow and Black helmet colour has been re-introduced. The green (do I recall that it was instigated for betting purposes?) helmet colour I had concerns with because under poor light it used to look blue! The original colours were brought in because Red and Blue are primarily dark colours (signifying the home team) whereas White and Yellow & Black were light (okay I know that black is dark but the helmet was chequered) to help relatively easy identification from a distance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 Pardon - I don't understand? I'll take a guess. Yes - I was happy when the White Helmet Cover was reinstated. Only problem was that under lights you could not distinguish between Yellow and White. Back to Yellow/Black now. Believe it or not - I am happy with that too. It should never have been changed in the first place. I know it is only a small thing, and in the great scheme of things means very little - but yes - I do approve. EDIT: The word is Colour not Color unless you are American - are you? What has it done for the sport? It's a total failure. As regards resurrecting Speedway from the Ashes - it is singularly unsuccessful as is evidenced by ever decreasing Gates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 The way the promoters who all all on the BPSA just dither about year after year, changing one rule after another only to find they have made a bigger mess of things then when they started. If for once they sat and thought about the sport its self and tried to bring it into the 21st centuary, instead of being left in some long lost time warp and strted to consider the fans. Then I am afraid to say. That they will be seeing fewr and fewer people turn out to see the sport. I for one am having second thoughts about next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted November 27, 2015 Report Share Posted November 27, 2015 ..as for the fans most in all sports want and love the play offs and it only tends to be the over 55's who don't like them . I like them and I'm definitely over 55. The only thing that is disappointing is the fact that if losing the semi final the season just fizzles out like Coventry's did and there isn't another meeting. No chance to thank the riders, no goodbyes. Mind you Hans was probably pleased to just quietly slink off to Poole without having to turn up in Bees colours again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.