AlanF Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I agree that the play off winners should be the champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I agree that the play off winners should be the champions. Rubbish, whoever finishes top at the end of the season are the league champions. Forget all this play-off nonsense. Whoever is the top scorer after 20 heats is the British champion. Forget all this semi-final and final nonsense. Top 8 from gp and top 7 from gp challenge. Forget all this seeding nonsense. It was a simpler time! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Rubbish, whoever finishes top at the end of the season are the league champions. Forget all this play-off nonsense. Whoever is the top scorer after 20 heats is the British champion. Forget all this semi-final and final nonsense. Top 8 from gp and top 7 from gp challenge. Forget all this seeding nonsense. It was a simpler time! absolutely, can win a gp on 7pts from 5 rides! crazy, but its what these organisers seem to like!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 absolutely, can win a gp on 7pts from 5 rides! crazy, but its what these organisers seem to like!! I actually think they should go back to the early days of the gp when they had D,C,B and A finals. At least then it was only one of the top 4 that could win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 I actually think they should go back to the early days of the gp when they had D,C,B and A finals. At least then it was only one of the top 4 that could win. everything has to go to the last race!. gp"s love a last heat decider, play offs last game of season, best pairs has a last race finale, british final last race decider, what a farcical sport this has become! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Ah we're back in fantasy land again I see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 everything has to go to the last race!. gp"s love a last heat decider, play offs last game of season, best pairs has a last race finale, british final last race decider, what a farcical sport this has become! I don't like the play-offs or the British final having a semi and final but the gp has always had a grand final so I can live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 There is no theory. It is reality. Yeah, you must be right Sid, that's why the terraces are empty for the playoffs.. cus folk think its just not right... Most like me would still go anyway all these supporters how many are new ones? speedway has survived before without the play/offs and would survive again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Ah we're back in fantasy land again I see! I don't know why you think it's fantasy land. The sport is hardly thriving with the play-offs. Ok you get big crowds for the final, but as soon as a team qualifies for the top 4 their fans aren't going to bother with their remaining matches, they'll just wait for the semi's. So it probably evens itself out over the season. Just because other sports have play-offs, it doesn't mean speedway has to have it. I believe the league champions should be the best team over eight months, not two weeks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I don't know why you think it's fantasy land. The sport is hardly thriving with the play-offs. Ok you get big crowds for the final, but as soon as a team qualifies for the top 4 their fans aren't going to bother with their remaining matches, they'll just wait for the semi's. So it probably evens itself out over the season. Just because other sports have play-offs, it doesn't mean speedway has to have it. I believe the league champions should be the best team over eight months, not two weeks. Another post in favour of the playoffs. You cannot use the logic of more meetings that matter to argue against the playoffs... that is the very purpose of them, to INCREASE the importance of matches. If we follow your logic, then with no play-offs, once a team was unable to win the league the fans would stop going and wait till next year when they had a chance again. The logic is utterly flawed. The only team/s that 'might' be missing out are the ones at the top who would have been embroiled in a title race under the old system... but you don't see them complaining. The argument as to which system is fairest is a completely different one, you can believe one system is fairer than another, but where the fantasy comes in is when folk make deluded statements that a particular team were the 'TRUE' champions because they finished top of the league. They weren't, that's fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I've noticed everytime someone posts against the play-offs you seem to think they're posting in favour of them. I don't know how clearer I can be when I say, 'the team that tops the league should be the winners.' Obviously you think the play-offs are a good idea. Fair enough that's your opinion. I still believe they were only brought in because of sky. They got lucky in 99 and 2000 with the league going down to the wire, Oxford won comfortably in 2001 and surprise surprise, along came the play-offs. I would say most fans over 40 prefer the old way of winning the league. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_Jones Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 And fans didn't stop going just because they had no hope of finishing top! Why did they stop going, because more abandoned the sport before the introduction of play offs than since? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Personally I've given up on this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Sorry Bwitcher but I really cannot understand your logic. Speedway survived quite happily without the play offs from 1928 until 2002. Only 73 years excluding the war period. And fans didn't stop going just because they had no hope of finishing top! There were KOC matches too. 4 Team Tournaments, Best Pairs, Challenge meetings, Individuals etc etc. Now all we have is 14 league meetings and 1 or 2 Play Off matches hopefully. I remember always wanting to go to speedway to watch speedway (well i still do) but winning didn't matter until my team became so successful it was addictive. Now people want everything for nothing, buy now pay later, and stuff it if I can't have what I want now attitude. Speedway was once merely a working class sport. Nowadays people have many other things to spend their money on and the product isn't really value for money any longer. That's why crowds are diminishing sadly. And as Terry says, the team that finishes top of the league ought to be crowned Champions. That's what a league system is for. Now it is just a qualifying table, not a league. Off to bed now That's what i can't understand in "Witcher"s thinking Pirates" we are starved of meeting's at home fourteen home meeting's.You could have a outright winner and a play/ off after, we are hardly saturated with other cup competitions are we???.How many meetings would you expect to see at home in yesteryear at least thirty if i had a guess wiith individuals, Test Matches,4TT (ect). Edited November 25, 2015 by sidney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Isn't the reduction in meetings more to do with rider availability? I too would like to see more meetings each season with 4TT and test matches etc but we keep getting told that fans are not interested in these meetings and crowds go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I think Belle Vue were the true champions last year because we had the nicest race suits. Well if others can put there own spin on who is the true champion why not me, and mine is no more ridiculous. The "true" and only champions are the exact same in every sport across the whole world. That being the team that wins under the prevailing rules. Being top of the league in September is no more a criteria for being league champions than having nice race suits. I fancy a few teams have been saved from going to the wall this year by the play offs. By end of May the Aces season would have been over and it would have been empty terraces at Kirky Lane, fortunately with something still to aim for crowds stayed up and as that target got more achievable increased even more. Even Wolves gained by having a bumper crowd for the double header with the Aces. How many would have paid to see that match with nothing riding on it. It is a silly argument though as to whether the majority prefer play offs or not, the evidence is right there in front of your eyes, 4000 at Belle Vue tells you the public are massively in favour 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 One of the reasons that play offs occur in just about all American and Australian sports is because of the unbalanced schedule due to the huge geographic area. The Australians still had playoffs even when the VFL was a Melbourne-based league, and the NSWRL/ARL was Sydney-based. In the The VFL at least, teams played home and away for many years. Given the relatively short season of the NFL, it's obviously impractical for every team to play each other even once, hence the need for playoffs between divisions even if the conference structure is largely a contrivance nowadays. In baseball, given the ridiculous number of games, every team in each league could conceivably play each other an equal number of times, which is what happened historically. However, there was always some form of 'playoff' even if it was just the World Series - although that's been extended to an absurd extent nowadays. Major League Soccer awards the Supporters Shield to the team with the best record at the end of the regular season and it is a prestigious trophy. They then play the play offs and the winners are the champions. I don't see why the Elite League could not do that. I like the Australian system the best. A single league with the winners crowned 'Minor Premiers', then a playoff system giving more advantages the higher a team finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I like the Australian system the best. A single league with the winners crowned 'Minor Premiers', then a playoff system giving more advantages the higher a team finishes. But in speedway, historically no one is remotely interested in any team title outside of league champions. You can give it the fanciest name you like but no one is interested. I agree about some form of advantage for the team that finishes top. The difficulty in speedway though would be gauging a system to give an advantage without rendering a tie unwinnable for the handicapped team and the detrimental effect on the crowd that brings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) I've noticed everytime someone posts against the play-offs you seem to think they're posting in favour of them. I don't know how clearer I can be when I say, 'the team that tops the league should be the winners.' Obviously you think the play-offs are a good idea. Fair enough that's your opinion. I still believe they were only brought in because of sky. They got lucky in 99 and 2000 with the league going down to the wire, Oxford won comfortably in 2001 and surprise surprise, along came the play-offs. I would say most fans over 40 prefer the old way of winning the league. Actually, Sky missed the Championship being won in '99 and 2000 too. In '99 their whole caboodle was at Saddlebow Road watching Poole miss out when Leigh Adams won heat 15 for the Stars whilst Panthers were quietly going about demolishing Belle Vue to win the title forty or so miles away. Then in 2000 Eastbourne won the title prior to the last match v King's Lynn when the Stars lost elsewhere in their penultimate match (caused by a very punishing schedule to ensure their last match was on that Monday night to fit in with Sky). Sky made absolutely sure they wouldn't miss out again. Edited November 25, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Sorry Bwitcher but I really cannot understand your logic. Speedway survived quite happily without the play offs from 1928 until 2002. Only 73 years excluding the war period. And fans didn't stop going just because they had no hope of finishing top! There were KOC matches too. 4 Team Tournaments, Best Pairs, Challenge meetings, Individuals etc etc. This isn't 'my logic'. This 'logic' has been introduced by the anti playoff people who have decided that fans don't go because of the playoffs. I am yet to see one single good reason as to why that would be the case.. here you are telling us that fans have always attended regardless (although the evidence of course says otherwise), so why, if they attend when their team has no hope of finishing top, would they suddenly decide they don't want to go anymore if they still have something to race for? See, it's not my logic that is flawed, it's the logic of those desperately trying to link declining crowds to the play-offs. People are well within their rights to think that a straight league is a better way to decide the champions and in some respects I agree with them... but to try and justify that by blaming the playoffs for the continued decline in attendances is a fabrication. That's what i can't understand in "Witcher"s thinking Pirates" we are starved of meeting's at home fourteen home meeting's.You could have a outright winner and a play/ off after, we are hardly saturated with other cup competitions are we???.How many meetings would you expect to see at home in yesteryear at least thirty if i had a guess wiith individuals, Test Matches,4TT (ect). Once again you post has no logic to it. Fans aren't attending, so let's introduce more less meaningful meetings, how exactly do you think that will bring the fans in? Why do you think there are less meeetings? Why do you think they don't run individuals, 4TT's etc.. Simply because the demand wasn't there! Personally I've given up on this thread! Probably for the best as we're still waiting for you to come up with a single reason why crowds would INCREASE with no playoffs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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