BWitcher Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) It's staggering how when people argue against the playoffs they more often than not don't realise they're arguing against the old system even more.. The post above is a perfect example Edited October 6, 2015 by BWitcher 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 So you are saying people won't bother attending meetings where nothing is at stake? There are far less meetings where nothing is at stake under a play off system than under a league system. So you are actually presenting an argument in favour of the playoffs, as per bwitchers post immediately before yours. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 play offs are going nowhere - this argument is dead - they fetch in far too much money - you may not like them but thousands do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Would add that promotions should pretty much always decrease prices for sky meetings, aim to get a good crowd and treat it as marketing. Exceptions would be the play offs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 So you are saying people won't bother attending meetings where nothing is at stake? There are far less meetings where nothing is at stake under a play off system than under a league system. So you are actually presenting an argument in favour of the playoffs, as per bwitchers post immediately before yours. Of course he is, as do all the anti play off posts. Aside from Cov or Poole matches, every match from June would have been meaningless and had a crowd accordingly. The Wolves v Belle Vue double header would have had zero travelling fans and hardly any home fans but thanks to the play offs would have been a financial success. The play off system is in place for one reason, and one reason alone. It increases crowds, and therefore revenue, both for the domestic league system and the massive windfall it creates for the finalists. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Last year it seemed that crowds at Kirky Lane were up, unsurprising given it was a much better season than many previously .... I attended probably 10 matches in total, 8 of which were pre Play Offs... I would say that during these 8 matches crowds were (to my untrained eye) between around 800 - 1000 with as you would expect, the larger crowds being at the start of the season and towards the end when it became a distinct possibility that the Aces could progress into the Play Offs The Play Off Semi drew I would suggest a crowd of around 1200 - 1500, (it was significantly noticeable the difference in crowd level from a 'normal' league match).. Not seen any info re the crowd for the KL leg of the final but I seem to remember a crowd of 3500 was mentioned when we rode against Cov. the last time we got there, and the crowd v Poole looked well, well up on that night... The argument seems to be that the Play Offs are only useful for those who qualify and that the rest of the League get no benefit. Well, as has been mentioned Wolves definitely got a benefit by the Aces being there when we had a qualifying chance, (if it had of been a 'dead rubber' then hardly any Aces would have been in attendance)... There can be no doubt that if they hadn't got anywhere near the Play Offs then (just like many other seasons) the Aces season would have spluttered to an end being played out in front of an ever dwindling number of 'die hards' like so many before.. This year, five teams (out of a total of eight) had, up until the final week of the season, a chance of becoming Champions... I would suggest that with only Poole and Cov in contention to win the League if the 'table topper' was crowned then there would simply have been apathy from the fans of clubs third to fifth, meaning no end of season increase in crowds, (in reality I am sure we would have seen a drop with 'nothing to play for').. They might not be every ones 'cup of tea' but there is no doubt that the Play Offs generate interest that otherwise would not be there and when the sport is fighting for every penny it gets, that isn't a bad thing... In fact, I would suspect that the crowds at KL for the two PO matches have gone a long way in making the season if not completely viable, then at least 'somewhat' viable..... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Ok, so you are saying that from June onwards any meeting not involving poole or Coventry would have had rubbish crowds. Swindon would never have signed Darcy so their crowds would have been WAY lower. Do you know why they stopped running the ko cup? I'll give you a clue, it wasn't because the crowds were too big. Edit: my post was in response to wibble, not mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Thevkey thing u mention is "in the past." "In the past" people had different expectations, and were happy to turn up every week regardless of anything being at stake. Those days are long gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Thevkey thing u mention is "in the past." "In the past" people had different expectations, and were happy to turn up every week regardless of anything being at stake. Those days are long gone. In the 20s cinemas were packed for silent movies but it is unlikely they would pack the punters in today. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 In the 20s cinemas were packed for silent movies but it is unlikely they would pack the punters in today. One did a couple of years ago. 'The Artist' - is the name of said Film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblueboy Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 It's pretty obvious really that the PO are the way forward....even Drop a Cog the biggest moaner detractor of the PO was caught watching the semi-final at Kirky Lane. Speedway is in terminal decline but the Play Offs has given the sport some longevity. Once the speedway season season starts, 4 teams ultimately have a chance of winning the league not one. As an example, this season under the 'normal' league winning rules Swindon were in big trouble after the very first meeting when 3 of their riders crashed out. They struggled on without a proper number 1 and gates were down and under those 'old rules' had no chance of winning the league. Ward signs, Robins win match after match and the Play Offs are obtained thus giving them a chance despite the bad start. A bit like the GP format if you like. As an aside, the battle between KL, BV and Swindon for the last 2 spots this season was exciting and meant that all 3 clubs had several meetings, which were now more important because of the likelihood they could still win the 'golden ticket' rather than who will finish 3rd. I have tasted bitter defeat - Coventry in 2007 and Wolves in 2009 and sweet success in 2012. Would I change any of it. Absolutely not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 If you have nothing sensible to post, best not to post at all.. I assume that was an attempt at humour.. if so, not a good one. You would think the way some folk hark on that the play-offs is some revolutionary unique idea limited to speedway... when the reality is quite different... There must be soooo many sports doing it wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 Don't give up the day job!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 If you have nothing sensible to post, best not to post at all.. I assume that was an attempt at humour.. if so, not a good one. You would think the way some folk hark on that the play-offs is some revolutionary unique idea limited to speedway... when the reality is quite different... There must be soooo many sports doing it wrong! Oh - I don't know. I thought it was funny. :rofl: ................. a bit like the Play Offs really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 After speaking to a chap at work I need a bit of help from people with a wider sporting knowledge. What sports have a play off system to decide the league winners, that also doesn't offer a cup to the team that tops the table? In these sports is the impact of injury to a member of their team either before or during play off matches greater or lesser than speedway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 After speaking to a chap at work I need a bit of help from people with a wider sporting knowledge. The ubiquitous chap at work, eh...? What sports have a play off system to decide the league winners, that also doesn't offer a cup to the team that tops the table? I don't think the NFL, MLB, NHL or NBA do? The UEFA Champions League? In these sports is the impact of injury to a member of their team either before or during play off matches greater or lesser than speedway? I think that's pretty difficult to quantify. You'd imagine 1 out of 7 would have a bigger impact than 1 out of 11 or even 1 out of 45, but it really depends on the position. You'd imagine losing a star quarterback could have a big impact, whilst conversely a speedway team could be strengthened by having a star guest rather than having to rely on another squad member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 The question shouldn't be whether they have a cup or trophy for finishing top of the league, but what actually matters. Rugby League for instance, there is a trophy for who finishes top.. does anyone remember it? Not really, all that matters is who wins the Grand Final. All the American Sports have division winners, then winners of their respective conference.. but again, the one that is remembered is the big prize.. the Superbowl, the World Series, the NBA Championship etc As for the 'chap at work'... the average sports fan will know full well how playoffs work and that the winners of the playoffs are champions. It's only a select group of old time speedway fans that invent that people get confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 I don't think the NFL, MLB, NHL or NBA do? The UEFA Champions League? . Are these all rugby? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 The question shouldn't be whether they have a cup or trophy for finishing top of the league, but what actually matters. Rugby League for instance, there is a trophy for who finishes top.. does anyone remember it? Not really, all that matters is who wins the Grand Final. All the American Sports have division winners, then winners of their respective conference.. but again, the one that is remembered is the big prize.. the Superbowl, the World Series, the NBA Championship etc As for the 'chap at work'... the average sports fan will know full well how playoffs work and that the winners of the playoffs are champions. It's only a select group of old time speedway fans that invent that people get confused. I simply can't make sense of this sentence BW? It is a good job that the "old Speedway Fans" do attend - otherwise you would have nothing to moan about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted October 7, 2015 Report Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) The question shouldn't be whether they have a cup or trophy for finishing top of the league, but what actually matters. Rugby League for instance, there is a trophy for who finishes top.. does anyone remember it? Not really, all that matters is who wins the Grand Final. All the American Sports have division winners, then winners of their respective conference.. but again, the one that is remembered is the big prize.. the Superbowl, the World Series, the NBA Championship etc As for the 'chap at work'... the average sports fan will know full well how playoffs work and that the winners of the playoffs are champions. It's only a select group of old time speedway fans that invent that people get confused. I would say that, in Britain at least, the average sports fan would say that winners of play-offs get promoted. Edited October 7, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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