orion Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) Course it does mate, that's why promoters have voted for less 'qualifying' matches in the past. You like them and think they're necessary, I don't like them (as championship deciders) and think that, in part at least, it contributes to the big empty spaces seen on the terraces today. We'll never agree. It's not me it's the majority of sports fans world wide ..that is why we have them in sport ....You not come up with one thing that links empty spaces to the play offs or one reason why fans would somehow rush back because we have them no more ..when you do let us all know . Edited November 29, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 It's not me it's the majority of sports fans world wide ..that is why we have them in sport ....You not come up with one thing that links empty spaces to the play offs or one reason why fans would somehow rush back because we have them no more ..when you do let us all know . Like I posted, we'll never agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) I love it when you try and push this line. It doesn't matter how you present it, its defeating your own argument. Based on YOUR theory, such fans wouldn't be interested in any meetings bar those effecting the title race and once a team was out of the title race they wouldn't be interested. As such based on YOUR theory, there are more meaningful matches with the playoff system (discounting the actual playoffs themselves) so the system has more chance of attracting fans. It isn't even something that can be argued against. The ridiculous suggestion that keeps being put forward is speedway is struggling, let's blame the playoffs is a non entity. There is no evidence to suggest this, not within speedway or in any of the other myriad of sports that operate playoff systems. The other suggestion put forward is that the sport lacks credibility due to playoffs, again this is PROVEN as a fallacy due to the myriad of sports, some BIG sports that have no such credibility issues. Speedway crowds were declining before the playoffs came in.. considerably so. Little has changed since to stop that decline, the playoffs are one thing that has helped, but they are nowhere near enough on their own. Some of you keep saying its no good having a couple of meetings that attract crowds... so your idea is get rid of the successful part of the sport? What nonsense! You have to build on that, find ways of making other meetings as exciting. It can be done with the right promotion, some clubs in their TV meetings have shown how to do it. Some issues that would help to reverse the decline if fixed:- Constant missing riders due to racing for another team in the same country. It could quite easily be set up that Elite League race on one set of nights, PL on the others. As they do in other countries. This then allows riders to race in both leagues and NOT be missing for their team's matches. It could even be managed far, far better than now without having the separate race nights by simply planning the fixtures correctly. Speed of meetings.. There should be no reason, bar crashes, that a meeting starting at 7:30pm shouldn't be done and dusted by 9pm. Absolutely none at all. Do away with intervals, especially on cold nights. There are natural intervals after each heat. Presentation and promotion. Look around at other sports and see how they are presented and learn from it. Rebranding.. forget all the family sport nonsense, its out dated now. Market the sport as the 'extremist of extreme sports'. Market the tumbles and the crashes, the action. Just a few things, there are plenty more... Lets build on the playoffs, not get rid of something that DOES attract fans in as things will only be worse. Finally.. to WK, Sidney etc... I don't think anybody is saying that playoffs is the best way of deciding a champion per se.. just that in these modern times the sport has to adapt to survive. I am as modern as you WH easily, but only for the better, ok me, WK, Vincent , don't agree to the play/offs more so because ie) it is not FAIR and because you have not proved to me the crowds are better.I have asked Orion about two times no reply so far, you agree with him so i will ask YOU if the Play/offs were scrapped tomorrow would the sport continue would regular clubs stay in business.? Edited November 29, 2015 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) I am as modern as you WH easily, but only for the better, ok me, WK, Vincent , don't agree to the play/offs more so because ie) it is not FAIR and because you have not proved to me the crowds are better.I have asked Orion about two times no reply so far, you agree with him so i will ask YOU if the Play/offs were scrapped tomorrow would the sport continue would regular clubs stay in business.? Asked me what ? what is the question ? people have given you the reasons why more people would go because the play offs over and over again ...when you have been asked why the crowds would flock if we removed them have you have not been able to give any reasons why or apply logic to why they would come back . No matter what the rules Speedway will always carry on in some format but let again I don't what that has got to with play offs ...I expect if Darts was not on tv for example people still play the game in the pub . As for the point about clubs staying in business any rule that is taken away than means less fans is likely to put clubs in with more chance of going out of business .. yet again that is just common sense Edited November 29, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Asked me what ? what is the question ? people have given you the reasons why more people would go because the play offs over and over again ...when you have been asked why the crowds would flock back the moment we don't have them.and so for you can't give a reason or apply any logic to as to why they would . No matter what the rules Speedway will always carry on in some format but let again I don't what that has got to with play offs ...I expect if Darts was not on tv for example people still play the game in the pub . As for point about clubs staying in business any rule that is taken away than means less fans is likely to put clubs in with more chance of going out of business .. yet again that is just common sense I did ask you if the play/offs were omitted say tomorrow from the rules, would it be business as usual for most clubs a pretty simple question a YES or a NO my humble opinion says clubs would survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) I did ask you if the play/offs were omitted say tomorrow from the rules, would it be business as usual for most clubs a pretty simple question a YES or a NO my humble opinion says clubs would survive. If we cut both your legs off tomorrow you might survive but that does means we should we do it .so it's the same with the play offs ..why would you get rid of something that is good just because you would survive anyhow . Edited November 29, 2015 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 If we cut both your legs off tomorrow you might survive but that does means we should we do it .so it's the same with the play offs ..why would you get rid of something that is good just because you would survive anyhow .Your answer EVENTUALLY says it or for me,the sport would SURVIVE it has before the crowds even with the play/offs are not great dont you get that.? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) Your answer EVENTUALLY says it or for me,the sport would SURVIVE it has before the crowds even with the play/offs are not great dont you get that.? ??? there are a million things in life that we survive without tomorrow but that does not mean that is reason not to have them ..Do you think we should get rid of the internet as we Survived without it before ? do you think we should rid of cars ? after all we Survive without out them before ? ....Do you think we should get rid of cable tv ? after all we used to survive just watching 4 stations .......yours is just a crazy logic to base things on Edited November 29, 2015 by orion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) ??? there are a million things in life that we survive without tomorrow but that does not mean that is reason not to have them ..Do you think we should get rid of the internet as we Survived without it before ? do you think we should rid of cars ? after all we Survive without out them before ? ....Do you think we should get rid of cable tv ? after all we used to survive just watching 4 stations .......yours is just a crazy logic to base things onNOT crazy just my opinion,you keep telling me the play/offs are great also they are not a new thing they have been here for a while now maybe SKY have a massive input in this.???I have told you endless times i except they are here to stay, but you make out they keep speedway going far from it speedway survived before it will survive again.Last year at Swindon Darcy rode against Poole( on sky at home) v King'sLynn, v Lakeside the gate was ok against Poole the other two were pretty average.Also against Belle Vue at home in the semi that was a very poor gate so the three meetings Darcy rode at home bearing in mind his wages the club would not of made alot the Belle Vue home crowd was so poor.The play/offs don't keep the sport going you admitted that, as i have said before the play/offs are ok but are hardly the SAVIOUR of the sport. Edited November 29, 2015 by sidney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) NOT crazy just my opinion,you keep telling me the play/offs are great also they are not a new thing they have been here for a while now maybe SKY have a massive input in this.???I have told you endless times i except they are here to stay, but you make out they keep speedway going far from it speedway survived before it will survive again.Last year at Swindon Darcy rode against Poole( on sky at home) v King'sLynn, v Lakeside the gate was ok against Poole the other two were pretty average.Also against Belle Vue at home in the semi that was a very poor gate so the three meetings Darcy rode at home bearing in mind his wages the club would. not of made alot the Belle Vue home crowd was so poor.The play/offs don't keep the sport going you admitted that, as i have said before the play/offs are ok but are hardly the SAVIOUR of the sport. Yet again no one has ever said they were the saviour of sport so I am not why keep bringing that up ...yet again you keep going on about thou matches what you say had poor crowds but they fail to come with any reason whey would be bigger if the play offs were not in place . As Rosco pointed out ward more than paid for himself so yet another void point . the bottom line Swindon got Ward and Bigger crowds as they were chasing the plays offs i have already explained twice in the last hour about what a silly point it is to saying that should get rid of something that is good just because we survived without it before ...but then you go and say it again in your next post ....as i said should we get rid of the internet ,cable tv etc just before we got on without them before ? . If you are going get rid of something you need to come with a reason why it would be better without ..and thus far you can't up with any bar we survived before . Edited November 29, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Yet again no one has ever said they were the saviour of sport so I am not why keep bringing that up ...yet again you keep going on about thou matches what you say had poor crowds but they fail to come with any reason whey would be bigger if the play offs were not in place . As Rosco pointed out ward more than paid for himself so yet another void point . the bottom line Swindon got Ward and Bigger crowds as they were chasing the plays offs i have already explained twice in the last hour about what a silly point it is to saying that should get rid of something that is good just because we survived without it before ...but then you go and say it again in your next post ....as i said should we get rid of the internet ,cable tv etc just before we got on without them before ? . If you are going get rid of something you need to come with a reason why it would be better without ..and thus far you can't up with any bar we survived before . Did i ever say get rid? still don't mean they are right though does it ? get Ward in the crowds are not that much better also paying paying his wages reach the SEMI and a very poor home crowd.You ent convinced me Orion, you have not sold the play/offs to me and that is after signing one of the best riders in the world who believe me was not cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 As i told you before rosco said ward more than paid for a reason for himself ..so dont bring it up again as its a void point . Not a case of me selling the plays offs as they are here to stay .its up to you to come up with a reson why the crowds would be bigger without them and you cant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Groan! This one just goes on and on and on....zzzz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 agree, just passing by this thread and nothing changes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 As i told you before rosco said ward more than paid for a reason for himself ..so dont bring it up again as its a void point . Not a case of me selling the plays offs as they are here to stay .its up to you to come up with a reson why the crowds would be bigger without them and you cantReason?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Groan! This one just goes on and on and on....zzzz! agree, just passing by this thread and nothing changes So why read and then post ? even worst is that you are the same person .so you had to change your login ... who is your next person going be ...Joe Hatton or Dave Roberts ? at least try to login from another ip address . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 So why read and then post ? even worst is that you are the same person .so you had to change your login ... who is your next person going be ...Joe Hatton or Dave Roberts ? at least try to login from another ip address . you are simply unbelievable!!! for someone who likes to prove your points as the right "view" all the time, you couldn't be more wrong. For your info, I wouldn't have a clue how to change a user name, anyone who knows me would tell you that....I wont hold my breath for an apology, cos you always believe you are right, but yet again, you are wrong!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 you are simply unbelievable!!! for someone who likes to prove your points as the right "view" all the time, you couldn't be more wrong. For your info, I wouldn't have a clue how to change a user name, anyone who knows me would tell you that....I wont hold my breath for an apology, cos you always believe you are right, but yet again, you are wrong!! Why did you post again on a topic your bored with ...as I said Colin ,Joe ,Steve .Poole ...try changing posting from another ip address or posting in another style ...maybe start a row with yourself rather than agreeing with yourself ...then you might fool some more people what is new name going to be ..John Smith ..maybe Colin Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 Why did you post again on a topic your bored with ...as I said Colin ,Joe ,Steve .Poole ...try changing posting from another ip address or posting in another style ...maybe start a row with yourself rather than agreeing with yourself ...then you might fool some more people what is new name going to be ..John Smith ..maybe Colin Jones prize clown. you know what, I actually thought you were gonna be man enough to apologise. how wrong. it shows you will argue any case even when you are wrong. I have apologised on two occasions on here and wouldn't think twice in doing so again. im not gonna push this cos your not worth the hassle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 29, 2015 Report Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) prize clown. you know what, I actually thought you were gonna be man enough to apologise. how wrong. it shows you will argue any case even when you are wrong. I have apologised on two occasions on here and wouldn't think twice in doing so again. im not gonna push this cos your not worth the hassle Why are you posting on a topic you are bored of ..as I said change into another name ... like Clive Rice Edited November 29, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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