stratton Posted November 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Do you if think if we have no plays offs the crowds be would bigger with nothing ride for the rest of the season for most sides ? unless you can other with some logic why the crowds would be bigger then it is quite right to value the play offs , As I said take Swindon season last year do you really think they would signed ward and then get the crowds they did ? of course not I still believe people would go they did before,to be honest i see no real growth in the new supporter going.Its basically the same people who go anyway that is where the problem is in a way the play/offs cover over a few cracks.Look we all know they are going to stay and i have no real gripe with them but we need to try and get people BACK who used to go to speeedway everyweek.Alot of those type just go for the play/offs, and if we don't qualify for the semis don't go hardly at all.Also with Ward he was a superstar available,so it was a no brainer to get him so glad we did a pleasure watching him at every home meeting.But even with Darcy there the crowds were not always great, and you have to take in to consideration what money Darcy was on did Swindon really make much.?As i have said some of the supporters on here who have said they are not a real lover of the play/offs will still always go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Sorry to compare but if this play off system were in football and the club finishing fourth beat the club finishing top in a play off final at Wembley you would have a bloody riot. Don't get me wrong I love to win. But not at the expense of a team and set of fans who are above me in the league. (Except Coventry hahahahahaha only joking.....good team next year BTW) Summing up then we have to agree on the play offs and a team is worthy of Champions whatever top 4 position they finish. So do we all agree Poole were deserving champions by beating Birmingham in 2013? No you wouldn't have a riot at all. You don't get riots when the 3rd placed team in the Championship, who have finished 20pts ahead of the 6th placed team loses in a play off final... a game worth millions and millions of pounds and far bigger than anything speedway can dream about. Of course Poole were worthy champions in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) Logical BW. You are not Mr. Spock in diguise are you. You are right about that - that is my main contention against the Play Offs - they are neither Fair nor Sporting. Your idea of fair and proper is if it was done in the 70s it is fair and proper Fair is simply winning under the prevailing rules. Is it fair and proper that a team can provide 14 out of 15 race winners and lose the match. Is it fair and proper that a tennis player can win nearly twice the amount of points as his opponent but lose, is it fair that a rugby team can score more tries than the opposition and not win. The answer is of course it is because those are the rules that every team began the competition knowing. For the millionth time topping the table in Sept (or Aug/July/June etc) doesn't make anyone the "true" champion because none of that is the criteria for being league winners, it is just some made up nonsense by a few on here. By all means disagree with the play offs, that's your choice, but there has not been one logical reason put forward as to how they could affect crowds adversely, OK there was the bloke who used to like going to a match between 5th and 6th place teams when there was nothing riding on it but doesn't like that scenario now the same match is massively important !!!!!!!!!!! Edited November 26, 2015 by Oldace 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 That in a nutshell sums it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 there is an outstandingly easy answer to this: - top of the league = champions, top 4 - play off competition - call it what you want. Everybody gets what he or she wants As a slightly side issue i can't help feeling that the attitude to winning at all costs has co incided with decline - once it was 'a night at the speedway' - win or lose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 there is an outstandingly easy answer to this: - top of the league = champions, top 4 - play off competition - call it what you want. Everybody gets what he or she wants As a slightly side issue i can't help feeling that the attitude to winning at all costs has co incided with decline - once it was 'a night at the speedway' - win or lose Yeh, could maybe call it the Craven Shield, the Premier League could have the same and call it the Young shield. That will definitely fill the terraces, I for one cant see the public not rising to that idea, they are all too stupid to see it is still just dog sh!t wrapped in glitter aren't they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 there is an outstandingly easy answer to this: - top of the league = champions, top 4 - play off competition - call it what you want. Everybody gets what he or she wants As a slightly side issue i can't help feeling that the attitude to winning at all costs has co incided with decline - once it was 'a night at the speedway' - win or lose No it's not ..it's been explain about a 100 times ..fans won't go meaning clubs lose money ...hence why we don't have the craven shield and jack young play off cup . so it's not a outstandingly easy answer . I would really like some these people to run a club ..all these idea's put forward with zero understanding of the money side of sport . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 In other threads we've been told that it's not about the rules, folk go to speedway to watch four blokes go round a track on brakeless motorbikes. Now we're being told that the same folk won't go to play-offs unless the league title's up for grabs. Why's that? It's the same four blokes going round the same track whatever's up for grabs at the end of the match. Weird. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 In other threads we've been told that it's not about the rules, folk go to speedway to watch four blokes go round a track on brakeless motorbikes. Now we're being told that the same folk won't go to play-offs unless the league title's up for grabs. Why's that? It's the same four blokes going round the same track whatever's up for grabs at the end of the match. Weird. What has rules and a league title got to do with each other. People want to watch matches that mean something, it is why Cardiff is 40,000 and training schools get no one watching. The more meaning a match has the more people want to see it. Hence calling a meaningless match with a fancy name fools no one, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 In other threads we've been told that it's not about the rules, folk go to speedway to watch four blokes go round a track on brakeless motorbikes. Now we're being told that the same folk won't go to play-offs unless the league title's up for grabs. Why's that? It's the same four blokes going round the same track whatever's up for grabs at the end of the match. Weird. The people who say its about 4 blokes going round a track, are the same ones who say crowds are drawn by the racing, and are the same ones who advocate abolishing the play offs. Basically the hard core speedway fan who will go whatever, and prefer things as they were 40 years ago.Which would be fine, but each el team has maybe 500 such people, and that is not sufficient to sustain a viable business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Yeh, could maybe call it the Craven Shield, the Premier League could have the same and call it the Young shield. That will definitely fill the terraces, I for one cant see the public not rising to that idea, they are all too stupid to see it is still just dog sh!t wrapped in glitter aren't they thanlk you for telling me i'm wrong. So the right answer is....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 thanlk you for telling me i'm wrong. So the right answer is....? There is no question to answer. Play offs are a modern money generating means of deciding a league title, the fans flock to see them, they are exciting, the revenue probably keeps clubs in existence, so what is there to really answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 No it's not ..it's been explain about a 100 times ..fans won't go meaning clubs lose money ...hence why we don't have the craven shield and jack young play off cup . so it's not a outstandingly easy answer . I would really like some these people to run a club ..all these idea's put forward with zero understanding of the money side of sport . actually i dont know why i responded to this - i couldnt give a fck whether there are play offs or not i suppose gimmicks are needed to grab the attention of the modern idiot anyway they aren't going anywhere so this discussion is moot 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 actually i dont know why i responded to this - i couldnt give a fck whether there are play offs or not i suppose gimmicks are needed to grab the attention of the modern idiot anyway they aren't going anywhere so this discussion is moot Add another to the list who when they realise they can't put forward any form of viable argument.. resorts to swearing, name calling and declares they're not interested anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rabbit Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) The people who say its about 4 blokes going round a track, are the same ones who say crowds are drawn by the racing, and are the same ones who advocate abolishing the play offs. Basically the hard core speedway fan who will go whatever, and prefer things as they were 40 years ago. Which would be fine, but each el team has maybe 500 such people, and that is not sufficient to sustain a viable business. Not exclusively. I say it's a lot more than four blokes going round a track. It's about an unambiguous set of rules being applied fairly and equally to all but I'd scrap play-offs for the league title tomorrow. Edited November 26, 2015 by Barney Rabbit 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Add another to the list who when they realise they can't put forward any form of viable argument.. resorts to swearing, name calling and declares they're not interested anyway. no thats not it - i just got sucked in and i dont know why cos i really dont care. I'm not name calling - the average modern consumer is an idiot. There is no argument to be had they're here to stay. Sorry to bother you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 no thats not it - i just got sucked in and i dont know why cos i really dont care. I'm not name calling - the average modern consumer is an idiot. There is no argument to be had they're here to stay. Sorry to bother you. Actually there is an argument. Why do you think crowds are down in speedway? Not because the modern consumer is an idiot, quite the opposite.. they are far more savvy and want more bang for their buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Actually there is an argument. Why do you think crowds are down in speedway? Not because the modern consumer is an idiot, quite the opposite.. they are far more savvy and want more bang for their buck. yes you have a point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Actually there is an argument. Why do you think crowds are down in speedway? Not because the modern consumer is an idiot, quite the opposite.. they are far more savvy and want more bang for their buck. This is basically the hole which speedway has dug itself into. The sport has failed to move with the times, in terms of promoting the sport, in terms of providing spectators with improved facilities, in terms of shooting itself in the foot on numerous occasions and with very little thought to the public. Spectators / customers / public in general these days demand so much more, because there are so many more alternatives. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 whilst this cant/wont happen in speedway, maybe if proper relegation/promotion was in this sport, then the WHOLE season would be "meaningful", which I think this thread shows. Teams wouldn't "see out" the season, and both ends would have something to race for, thus giving March to September a proper purpose. But with speedway, we have promotions choosing to stay put in lower leagues (for obvious reasons). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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