The White Knight Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I can certainly see the attraction of the play offs and the finals undoubtedly attract a large number of fans. What we don't know is what effect, if any, relegating the league matches up to the play offs into a qualifying competition for those play offs, has had on the dramatic drop in attendances at all those other matches. My feeling is that it has certainly contributed and may be a major factor in the huge drop in total number of fans that attend matches over a whole season. The season is now slanted towards simply finishing in the top 4 and being the form team at the end of the season, either through getting everyone into form at the right time or, making the right team changes in time for the play offs. People argue that interest was lost in the league if there was a run away leader. That wasn't my experience. The league held my interest throughout the season, even if we weren't in contention to win it. I wanted to see how high up we could finish, I wanted to finish higher than local rivals and I wanted us to beat the teams likely to finish above us. Maybe that is just me or maybe overall attendances wouldn't be as dire as they are if we still had league champions rather than play off champions. Another hobby horse of mine is the knock out cup. Promoters tell us nobody is interested. What they forget is that they are largely responsible because of the way the competition was run in recent times. Sometimes months between qualifying rounds and finals fitted in at the end of the season, often in poor weather. It certainly have the impression that the BSPA regarded it as a fixture filler rather than a prestigious competition. I'm sure a properly organised cup competition would be attractive to fans if given a high profile, with each round to be completed in a set timescale and a final immediately before or following the play offs. Terrific Post Aces51. I agree with all of it. Particularly the highlighted piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 again I agree with TWK. (so not a "worthless" comment)!!.. I have been lucky enough to see 4 championship winning titles (not all the same team) pre play offs. And all of those games had a much larger attendance than normal.. Totally believe top team should be champions, and couldn't care less if im in the minority 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 again I agree with TWK. (so not a "worthless" comment)!!.. I have been lucky enough to see 4 championship winning titles (not all the same team) pre play offs. And all of those games had a much larger attendance than normal.. Totally believe top team should be champions, and couldn't care less if im in the minority lol.. another posts an argument for the playoffs... and doesn't realise it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Here we go again.. The quality of racing. The quality of racing means zip, nada, zilch. Does Peterboro operate to big crowds? No they don't.. in fact they struggle consistently.. yet they're always praised for their 'quality of racing'. Yet when Peterboro had a really successful period, winning trophies at the lower level, then again at the top level, funnily enough they were packing the fans in. Scunthope.. always praised for 'quality of racing'.. are they turning fans away there at the gate? I have the same opinion( that is all it is )about winning the league ,anyone that I know has never complained about not winning the league but has about lack of passing and gate and go speedway. Edited November 23, 2015 by FAST GATER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Never been a fan of the play-offs personally. It's an American thing! I recall when Oxford won the Championship back in 2001 under the old tried and tested system and SKY TV missed the event...and what do you know...the next year Play-Offs were in place! Cynic as I am but it's open to manipulation and with an Elite League of only eight or nine(?) teams really makes it all rather pointless! One of the best matches seen at Cowley in living memory was the 1985 Knock-Out Cup Final between 'The Cheetahs' and Ipswich. The meeting had everything. Drama and incident. I can't understand why the Knock Out Cup was withdrawn but that's another reason why I gave up going, and yes, I'm of the 55 year old brigade! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I can certainly see the attraction of the play offs and the finals undoubtedly attract a large number of fans. What we don't know is what effect, if any, relegating the league matches up to the play offs into a qualifying competition for those play offs, has had on the dramatic drop in attendances at all those other matches. My feeling is that it has certainly contributed and may be a major factor in the huge drop in total number of fans that attend matches over a whole season. The season is now slanted towards simply finishing in the top 4 and being the form team at the end of the season, either through getting everyone into form at the right time or, making the right team changes in time for the play offs. People argue that interest was lost in the league if there was a run away leader. That wasn't my experience. The league held my interest throughout the season, even if we weren't in contention to win it. I wanted to see how high up we could finish, I wanted to finish higher than local rivals and I wanted us to beat the teams likely to finish above us. Maybe that is just me or maybe overall attendances wouldn't be as dire as they are if we still had league champions rather than play off champions. Another hobby horse of mine is the knock out cup. Promoters tell us nobody is interested. What they forget is that they are largely responsible because of the way the competition was run in recent times. Sometimes months between qualifying rounds and finals fitted in at the end of the season, often in poor weather. It certainly have the impression that the BSPA regarded it as a fixture filler rather than a prestigious competition. I'm sure a properly organised cup competition would be attractive to fans if given a high profile, with each round to be completed in a set timescale and a final immediately before or following the play offs. Terrific Post Aces51. I agree with all of it. Particularly the highlighted piece. Of course you agree with it TWK.. even though it has absolutely no substance to it again. The arguments Aces presents make little sense. People were more interested how high they could finish in the league before.. but they aren't now. Why? That makes no sense at all. There is still a league, if finishing 6th rather than 7th rocks your boat you can still finish 6th rather than 7th. Absolutely nothing has changed in that respect, so that argument is null and void. We'll extend that.. perhaps finishing 4th rather than 5th rocks your boat.. it still applies, you can celebrate that if you wish... however for all those who aren't really bothered whether they finished 4th or 5th, suddenly they do care, as 4th extends your season and 5th does not. Playoffs wins again, both sets of fans happy The crux of all this however is the fact that some speedway fans feel the need to invent arguments to suit their anti playoff stance. Even though they have absolutely no evidence to back it up. They can't point to any sport to back it up. If playoff's causes such a drop in attendances as is claimed, it would be seen across other sports too. These sports, which are businesses would soon realise that and change. Why don't they? Quite simply, because they don't cause this mythical drop. They have the opposite effect. The declining attendances is generally the only thing anti-playoff folk can hang their hat on.. although again, it's irrelevant. Had speedway attendances been stable before the play-offs they might have had a case, however they weren't, they were in decline... a lot more fans had left the sport prior to the playoffs than have since. There are many, many reasons for the decline of attendances in speedway.. the play-offs isn't one of them. One of the best matches seen at Cowley in living memory was the 1985 Knock-Out Cup Final between 'The Cheetahs' and Ipswich. The meeting had everything. Drama and incident. I can't understand why the Knock Out Cup was withdrawn but that's another reason why I gave up going, and yes, I'm of the 55 year old brigade! Another post in favour of the play-offs and doesn't realise it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmet Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 The season is now slanted towards simply finishing in the top 4 and being the form team at the end of the season, either through getting everyone into form at the right time or, making the right team changes in time for the play offs. . This is what makes a mockery of a league , - pulling in a SGP rider who's not been willing to ride in the UK for a season but will, for short-term inflated pay, finish the season here, when in effect he and that Sept/Oct team line-up, - you know the one I'm thinking of - , has not been the one that's competed in the league the preceding 5 months ! . There needs to be a rule, - sorry, yes, another but essential rule - , to stop clubs drafting in heat-leaders at the end of the season if they weren't prepared to commit to a full season in a UK league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I have the same opinion( that is all it is )about winning the league ,anyone that I know has never complained about not winning the league but has about lack of passing and gate and go speedway. So tell me, who gets the biggest crowds. Team top of the league with poor to average racing, or same team bottom of the league with very good racing? . This is what makes a mockery of a league , - pulling in a SGP rider who's not been willing to ride in the UK for a season but will, for short-term inflated pay, finish the season here, when in effect he and that Sept/Oct team line-up, - you know the one I'm thinking of - , has not been the one that's competed in the league the preceding 5 months ! . There needs to be a rule, - sorry, yes, another but essential rule - , to stop clubs drafting in heat-leaders at the end of the season if they weren't prepared to commit to a full season in a UK league. Ah, yes. Every season we're getting this. Its madness. I've lost count of the amount of times this has happened.. Oh hang on.. perhaps I haven't.. perhaps you have a list of all of these heat leaders that have been 'drafted in' at the end of the season just for the play-offs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 lol.. another posts an argument for the playoffs... and doesn't realise it.? really?. could I be any clearer? team with most points should be champions. how does that support play offs?...to win the league, in pre play offs, a top side could win the league against the bottom side, yet the turnout would still be higher than normal..how on earth does that back the play offs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 ? really?. could I be any clearer? team with most points should be champions. how does that support play offs?...to win the league, in pre play offs, a top side could win the league against the bottom side, yet the turnout would still be higher than normal..how on earth does that back the play offs? It would be higher.. it was even higher when two teams met who could both win the league.. The most tension packed meeting I went to was 1993, Wolves v Belle Vue, league title decider. That wasn't replicated till the playoffs came along and Wolves raced in a playoff final. Sure, I attended Wolves v Swindon in 1996 when Wolves clinched the league that year, but as good as it was, it hadn't the nail biting tension 1993 or the playoff finals had. The difference is, we now get that amazing atmosphere and tension every year, not once every so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 I can certainly see the attraction of the play offs and the finals undoubtedly attract a large number of fans. What we don't know is what effect, if any, relegating the league matches up to the play offs into a qualifying competition for those play offs, has had on the dramatic drop in attendances at all those other matches. My feeling is that it has certainly contributed and may be a major factor in the huge drop in total number of fans that attend matches over a whole season. The season is now slanted towards simply finishing in the top 4 and being the form team at the end of the season, either through getting everyone into form at the right time or, making the right team changes in time for the play offs. People argue that interest was lost in the league if there was a run away leader. That wasn't my experience. The league held my interest throughout the season, even if we weren't in contention to win it. I wanted to see how high up we could finish, I wanted to finish higher than local rivals and I wanted us to beat the teams likely to finish above us. Maybe that is just me or maybe overall attendances wouldn't be as dire as they are if we still had league champions rather than play off champions. Another hobby horse of mine is the knock out cup. Promoters tell us nobody is interested. What they forget is that they are largely responsible because of the way the competition was run in recent times. Sometimes months between qualifying rounds and finals fitted in at the end of the season, often in poor weather. It certainly have the impression that the BSPA regarded it as a fixture filler rather than a prestigious competition. I'm sure a properly organised cup competition would be attractive to fans if given a high profile, with each round to be completed in a set timescale and a final immediately before or following the play offs. Yet again another post that is out of touch with the modern day fan ,..sadly these days people want to be in with a chance to win something etc to retain there interest ...a runaway leader would kill speedway by june and leave no interest for anyone ...your living in dream if you thinks crowds will go up if that happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) sorry for repeating myself here, but if you are a floating fan, not a go at all costs kind of fan. If your team was poole or Edinburgh, between march and September, would you go as much to a match, under the old or new format? I would guess, this type of fan would wait until the play offs?..hence, you get weeks and weeks of floating fans, staying away until the play offs.. Another example is, why would a poole/Edinburgh fan travel away early season? again, unless you are commited, the early results are not that important any longer. These large crowds at the play offs are not all newbies flocking to speedway, these are the 50/50s waiting for a meaningful fixture.. Edited November 23, 2015 by ColinMills 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yet again another post that is out of touch with the modern day fan ,..sadly these days people want to be in with a chance to win something etc to retain there interest ...a runaway leader would kill speedway by june and leave no interest for anyone ...your living in dream if you thinks crowds will go up if that happened You and BW need to ask yourselves - if the Play Off System is so great - then why are people leaving the Sport in droves? I would again mention the fairness of it all too - Sport - Circus more like. Other stupid Rules too. If Speedway was so poor without the Play Offs years ago - how come the Crowds were so much greater? Can you not see a corrolation there? I know I can. However - you keep your heads in the sand and when Speedway is dead you can say it wasn't your fault. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 sorry for repeating myself here, but if you are a floating fan, not a go at all costs kind of fan. If your team was poole or Edinburgh, between march and September, would you go as much to a match, under the old or new format? I would guess, this type of fan would wait until the play offs?..hence, you get weeks and weeks of floating fans, staying away until the play offs.. Another example is, why would a poole/Edinburgh fan travel away early season? again, unless you are commited, the early results are not that important any longer. These large crowds at the play offs are not all newbies flocking to speedway, these are the 50/50s waiting for a meaningful fixture.. So that is one team in each what about all the others if your team was between 3 -7 are likely to go if there was something to ride for or not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yet again another post that is out of touch with the modern day fan ,..sadly these days people want to be in with a chance to win something etc to retain there interest ...a runaway leader would kill speedway by june and leave no interest for anyone ...your living in dream if you thinks crowds will go up if that happenedCould you not have a league winner? and three others to have two semis in a fa cup style cup competition hardly rocket science eh!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 You and BW need to ask yourselves - if the Play Off System is so great - then why are people leaving the Sport in droves? I would again mention the fairness of it all too - Sport - Circus more like. Other stupid Rules too. If Speedway was so poor without the Play Offs years ago - how come the Crowds were so much greater? Can you not see a corrolation there? I know I can. However - you keep your heads in the sand and when Speedway is dead you can say it wasn't your fault. :rolleyes: You told been told a million times the answer to that question speedway is always going to lose fans no matter what the rules are if was losing fans even before the plays at bigger % so yet again a easy one to answer ..here is one for why if plays offs or so bad why do have them in England ,Sweden and Poland as well as all the other sports that used them ,,are all these people are wrong and would make more money by having them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Of course you agree with it TWK.. even though it has absolutely no substance to it again. The arguments Aces presents make little sense. People were more interested how high they could finish in the league before.. but they aren't now. Why? That makes no sense at all. There is still a league, if finishing 6th rather than 7th rocks your boat you can still finish 6th rather than 7th. Absolutely nothing has changed in that respect, so that argument is null and void. We'll extend that.. perhaps finishing 4th rather than 5th rocks your boat.. it still applies, you can celebrate that if you wish... however for all those who aren't really bothered whether they finished 4th or 5th, suddenly they do care, as 4th extends your season and 5th does not. Playoffs wins again, both sets of fans happy The crux of all this however is the fact that some speedway fans feel the need to invent arguments to suit their anti playoff stance. Even though they have absolutely no evidence to back it up. They can't point to any sport to back it up. If playoff's causes such a drop in attendances as is claimed, it would be seen across other sports too. These sports, which are businesses would soon realise that and change. Why don't they? Quite simply, because they don't cause this mythical drop. They have the opposite effect. The declining attendances is generally the only thing anti-playoff folk can hang their hat on.. although again, it's irrelevant. Had speedway attendances been stable before the play-offs they might have had a case, however they weren't, they were in decline... a lot more fans had left the sport prior to the playoffs than have since. There are many, many reasons for the decline of attendances in speedway.. the play-offs isn't one of them. Another post in favour of the play-offs and doesn't realise it! No the Knock Out Cup was a separate tournament as the name suggests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Could you not have a league winner? and three others to have two semis in a fa cup style cup competition hardly rocket science eh!! Could you not have a league winner? and three others to have two semis in a fa cup style cup competition hardly rocket science eh!! Yet again a easy one and one answered time and time again and about 10 times on this topic fans would not go hence why the craven shield etc jack young trophy don't take place any more as well as making most of the season pointless and putting clubs in danger of going bust ...so it is rocket science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted November 23, 2015 Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 So that is one team in each what about all the others if your team was between 3 -7 are likely to go if there was something to ride for or not ?Plymouth certainly had an interest in extending their season this year, yes.. I always thought the ko cup was a good competition, until, yet again, the new rules ruined it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted November 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yet again a easy one and one answered time and time again and about 10 times on this topic fans would not go hence why the craven shield etc jack young trophy don't take place any more as well as making most of the season pointless and putting clubs in danger of going bust ...so it is rocket scienceAre you telling me the supporters in the top four would not care less about a couple of semis? we had endless cup competitions before Midland cup ko cup(ect).If it was announced in March has to be good dosen't it god how many HOME meeting's are there anyway not many.Or would you just rather have a team who wins the league by ten points but still ends up winning nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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