Play Offs Should They Be Scrapped.?

[moxey63]

The entire season now is set up for a few weeks in September. Now, you can lose a glut of league fixtures and still end up as Grand Final winners. The league table, as Birmingham a few years ago would say, means nothing. Just attain a top four spot. It is about jockeying for positions. Mostly, sides that begin the season are never really the same when September dawns. If round robin matches were important, why would such a crowd turn up for last night's match? Where had they all been all year?

The interest create by the Play-Offs has shaved fans off watching the league programme. Just my opinion, and therefore I believe I am right.

Edited September 29, 2015 by moxey63

[ColinMills]

The entire season now is set up for a few weeks in September. Now, you can lose a glut of league fixtures and still end up as Grand Final winners. The league table, as Birmingham a few years ago would say, means nothing. Just attain a top four spot. It is about jockeying for positions. Mostly, sides that begin the season are never really the same when September dawns. If round robin matches were important, why would such a crowd turn up for last night's match? Where had they all been all year?

The interest create by the Play-Offs has shaved fans off watching the league programme. Just my opinion, and therefore I believe I am right.

whilst this is "dreamland"....promotion/relegation would make sure teams had meaningful games all year round, and even more "dreamland", if speedway clubs were giving finishing position money, like footy, that too would keep the interest going.

but the problem is, its a amateur sport, so can never happen...this is a "sport" where clubs choose to drop down a league

Edited September 29, 2015 by ColinMills

[orion]

The entire season now is set up for a few weeks in September. Now, you can lose a glut of league fixtures and still end up as Grand Final winners. The league table, as Birmingham a few years ago would say, means nothing. Just attain a top four spot. It is about jockeying for positions. Mostly, sides that begin the season are never really the same when September dawns. If round robin matches were important, why would such a crowd turn up for last night's match? Where had they all been all year?

The interest create by the Play-Offs has shaved fans off watching the league programme. Just my opinion, and therefore I believe I am right.

?? Common sense tells you in any sport that a crowd for any final is likely to more than a normal league match ...what sort of logic are you using ...As I said before do you expect the people who went to the final last night to start turning up every week if we went back to the old rules ? in last nights final how many changes did Belle Vue and Poole have in there line compared to what they started with at the start of the season ?

[ColinMills]

?? Common sense tells you in any sport that a crowd for any final is likely to more than a normal league match ...what sort of logic are you using ...As I said before do you expect the people who went to the final last night to start turning up every week if we went back to the old rules ? in last nights final how many changes did Belle Vue and Poole have in there line compared to what they started with at the start of the season ?

clearly any final gets larger crowds, don't think no one denies that, but that's what cup games are for...

koc....league cup etc,.....you will always have people who prefer a league to be a league...how many years

can it carry on getting 700 customers for 6 months, then 3,000 for two games? the product clearly isn't interesting enough

for 6 months of the season

Edited September 29, 2015 by ColinMills

[orion]

clearly any final gets larger crowds, don't think no one denies that, but that's what cup games are for...

koc....league cup etc,.....you will always have people who prefer a league to be a league...how many years

can it carry on getting 700 customers for 6 months, then 3,000 for to games? the product clearly isn't interesting enough

for 6 months of the season

As I keep saying ...why would the crowds be any bigger if we went back to the old rules ...why would all thou extra fans last start going to normal league matches when for most of them there teams season would be over by May ? It makes no sense .

[The White Knight]

clearly any final gets larger crowds, don't think no one denies that, but that's what cup games are for...

koc....league cup etc,.....you will always have people who prefer a league to be a league...how many years

can it carry on getting 700 customers for 6 months, then 3,000 for two games? the product clearly isn't interesting enough

for 6 months of the season

Spot on.

As I keep saying ...why would the crowds be any bigger if we went back to the old rules ...why would all thou extra fans last start going to normal league matches when for most of them there teams season would be over by May ? It makes no sense .

No orion - the 'Play Offs' make no sense.

 

League, I repeat League Speedway is run throughout the Season, surely, to me anyway, the Team that finishes top of said League are the League Champions. Anything after that is irrelevent as far as the League is concerned - the League is over and the 'Play Offs' begin.

 

Whoever wins the Play Offs' are the 'Play Off' Champions - not the League Champions - that is simply not logical.

 

The only possible reason for 'Play Offs' is cash - and then only for a couple of Clubs.

[orion]

Spot on.

No orion - the 'Play Offs' make no sense.

 

League, I repeat League Speedway is run throughout the Season, surely, to me anyway, the Team that finishes top of said League are the League Champions. Anything after that is irrelevent as far as the League is concerned - the League is over and the 'Play Offs' begin.

 

Whoever wins the Play Offs' are the 'Play Off' Champions - not the League Champions - that is simply not logical.

 

The only possible reason for 'Play Offs' is cash - and then only for a couple of Clubs.

Of course the play offs is about money ..I thought everyone understood that no one has said otherwise also no one was talking about the fairness we were talking about crowd levels so no need for your normal rant . ..and it's for most clubs not just a couple ...As nearly every other sport use them including Speedway in Poland and Sweden they must be doing ok .

Edited September 29, 2015 by orion

[Tsunami]

Of course the play offs is about money ..I thought everyone understood that no one has said otherwise no one was talking about the fairness we were talking about crowd levels so no need for your normal rant . ..and it's for most clubs not just a couple ...As nearly every other sport use them including Speedway in Poland and Sweden they must be doing ok .

Quite agree it can be all about cash. But not just for those in the PlayOffs, as there is also the previous league meetings which, if won, can get the team into the playoff positions. We were vying with Worky to try and get the 6th position mid season. It is another interest to heighten the pressure to qualify. As you say, most modern sports do some sort of PlayOffs which then brings in extra fans in extra meetings. It is a double whammy for the good.

In Ice Hockey when I was involved in that at Newcastle, the teams competed to get into the knockout weekend. This was 8 teams I think, who then took to the ice over a two day weekend, and a champion team was decided. Fans from other ties used to go the other matches, and created a carnival atmosphere all the time. The fans bought everything and spent a fortune, but what great weekend it was when it was played at the Metro Arena Newcastle. Was it about money. too bloody true it was, and everyone donated with a smile on their faces.

[pvm]

In Ice Hockey when I was involved in that at Newcastle, the teams competed to get into the knockout weekend. This was 8 teams I think, who then took to the ice over a two day weekend, and a champion team was decided. Fans from other ties used to go the other matches, and created a carnival atmosphere all the time. The fans bought everything and spent a fortune, but what great weekend it was when it was played at the Metro Arena Newcastle. Was it about money. too bloody true it was, and everyone donated with a smile on their faces.

I used play a bit of Ice Hockey in my younger days, Billingham Bombers (I was in the juniors team), Durham Wasps, Whitley Bay Warriors. My daughter lives near Durham, I must have a look in and see how the Durham Wasps are doing these days, there was always a heathy rivalry between Billingham and the other two North east teams.

[The White Knight]

I used play a bit of Ice Hockey in my younger days, Billingham Bombers (I was in the juniors team), Durham Wasps, Whitley Bay Warriors. My daughter lives near Durham, I must have a look in and see how the Durham Wasps are doing these days, there was always a heathy rivalry between Billingham and the other two North east teams.

You forgot Sunderland 'Chiefs' - I think it was PVM.

[New Science]

IF the premier and Elite were to combine, I believe there are 5 or 6 PL promotions who would either close immediately or drop to the National League before closing a season or two later. A combined league has to mean increased costs over the current PL budget.

Not necessarily if the correct parameters are put in place.

[Tsunami]

I used play a bit of Ice Hockey in my younger days, Billingham Bombers (I was in the juniors team), Durham Wasps, Whitley Bay Warriors. My daughter lives near Durham, I must have a look in and see how the Durham Wasps are doing these days, there was always a heathy rivalry between Billingham and the other two North east teams.

Not sure now, but I only know that Whitley Warriers and possibly Billingham are the only teams still playing. The Durham Wasps were top dogs with the Warriers but they lost their rink probably over 20 years ago. It's part of a big redevelopment i think.

[Vincent Blachshadow]

Quite agree it can be all about cash. But not just for those in the PlayOffs, as there is also the previous league meetings which, if won, can get the team into the playoff positions. We were vying with Worky to try and get the 6th position mid season. It is another interest to heighten the pressure to qualify. As you say, most modern sports do some sort of PlayOffs which then brings in extra fans in extra meetings. It is a double whammy for the good.

In Ice Hockey when I was involved in that at Newcastle, the teams competed to get into the knockout weekend. This was 8 teams I think, who then took to the ice over a two day weekend, and a champion team was decided. Fans from other ties used to go the other matches, and created a carnival atmosphere all the time. The fans bought everything and spent a fortune, but what great weekend it was when it was played at the Metro Arena Newcastle. Was it about money. too bloody true it was, and everyone donated with a smile on their faces.

 

Are these play-offs to find the League Champions, as in speedway, or a separate competition for another trophy?

 

Never had much to do with ice hockey so I don't know.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow

[stratton]

Of course the play offs is about money ..I thought everyone understood that no one has said otherwise also no one was talking about the fairness we were talking about crowd levels so no need for your normal rant . ..and it's for most clubs not just a couple ...As nearly every other sport use them including Speedway in Poland and Sweden they must be doing ok .

I did not hear a RANT there Orion just a point of view that differs from yours ?

[Tsunami]

 

Are these play-offs to find the League Champions, as in speedway, or a separate competition for another trophy?

 

Never had much to do with ice hockey so I don't know.

I think it was for a Cup comp, but the principle was that finals bring out the crowds.

[Humphrey Appleby]

I'm not sure why the 'playoffs' keep ending-up getting discussed every year. Most other sports have them these days, and they're hardly the worst thing that speedway has introduced in the past few years. My main objection to the 'playoffs' is that you don't play at speedway.

 

I do think you need to have a system whereby teams get more of an advantage for finishing higher in the league, either in terms of a double chance or points handicap in their favour, but provided teams know they're part of the process of winning the championship, then I don't see the problem.

[arnieg]

I'm not sure why the 'playoffs' keep ending-up getting discussed every year. Most other sports have them these days, and they're hardly the worst thing that speedway has introduced in the past few years. My main objection to the 'playoffs' is that you don't play at speedway.I do think you need to have a system whereby teams get more of an advantage for finishing higher in the league, either in terms of a double chance or points handicap in their favour, but provided teams know they're part of the process of winning the championship, then I don't see the problem.

Agreed I think the Danish system is interesting, where the playoffs are a mini league (in the case of the top division a single meeting grand final) with match points carried into finals: 4 for league leaders, 2 for runners-up and one for third).

 

BTW the top five divisions (three 500cc and two 85cc) in Danish speedway have five different play-off formats!

[Vincent Blachshadow]

I think it was for a Cup comp, but the principle was that finals bring out the crowds.

 

Yes, I've since been on Wikipedia and seen that this very successful and well supported weekend is the culmination of an end-of-season knockout competition and the winners are just that - play-off winners (although given the title of 'British Champions'). The League Champions are the team finishing top of the pile after the regular league matches.

 

To me, that's fine. I don't disagree with play-offs but not for a league championship (as with football and ice hockey).

[oldace]

 

Yes, I've since been on Wikipedia and seen that this very successful and well supported weekend is the culmination of an end-of-season knockout competition and the winners are just that - play-off winners (although given the title of 'British Champions'). The League Champions are the team finishing top of the pile after the regular league matches.

 

To me, that's fine. I don't disagree with play-offs but not for a league championship (as with football and ice hockey).

 

Maybe call the Elite League play offs the Craven Shield, you could do it in the Premier League and maybe call it the Young shield, sure fire way to pack the crowds in!!!!!!

 

Give it whatever title you want, no one is interested in it. The only title anyone is bothered about is the league title. Thats why Belle Vues crowds have held up this year, simply because there was still a target, likewise Cov, Poole, Kings Lynn, Swindon. The play offs and the money generated will likely have kept clubs in existence.

[Vincent Blachshadow]

 

Maybe call the Elite League play offs the Craven Shield, you could do it in the Premier League and maybe call it the Young shield, sure fire way to pack the crowds in!!!!!!

 

Give it whatever title you want, no one is interested in it. The only title anyone is bothered about is the league title. Thats why Belle Vues crowds have held up this year, simply because there was still a target, likewise Cov, Poole, Kings Lynn, Swindon. The play offs and the money generated will likely have kept clubs in existence.

 

Which is a shame, because as Tsunami has posted, in another sport, the final stages of an end-of-season knockout competition fills the venue - not just for a match, but for a series of them over a weekend.

 

So what's the difference, the sport or the people currently following it?