Play Offs Should They Be Scrapped.?

[SCB]

So, in a nutshell, the play-offs exist to ensure Sky get the EL title decider live on air as it happens.

The PL has play-offs. Sky are not showing them. The PL play-offs do no exist for Sky, they exist because they bring in a crowd and make promoters money. They bring in a crowd because people like them. It's an added bonus in the EL that Sky like them too, but Sky like them because they get high viewing figure, they get high viewing figures because people watch to watch them, people watch things they like. Thus the play-offs exist because people like them!

[Vincent Blachshadow]

The PL has play-offs. Sky are not showing them. The PL play-offs do no exist for Sky, they exist because they bring in a crowd and make promoters money. They bring in a crowd because people like them. It's an added bonus in the EL that Sky like them too, but Sky like them because they get high viewing figure, they get high viewing figures because people watch to watch them, people watch things they like. Thus the play-offs exist because people like them!

 

I'm not denying that. My point is that speedway has play-offs because they were introduced by or for Sky. Subsequent events don't alter that fact. Had Sky not thought of introducing them we may not have them now since they weren't universally popular within the BSPA at the time of their inception and we have no way of knowing if they would now be a part of speedway had events taken a different path at the turn of the century.

 

My initial posting was in reply to a poster posting why speedway have play-offs. I pointed out speedway has play-offs because they were bought in for or by Sky to ensure the TV company will televise the match at which the EL Champions win the title. I don't deny they make a few bucks for some of the teams that actually qualify - their value to the teams not in the mix isn't quite as clear cut.

 

Semantics possibly, but the reason something actually exists must go back to why it came in, continuing existence is down to the here and now.

With that in mind, play-offs exist because of Sky, not because they are now considered a money-spinner, though that is a part of the reason for their continued existence.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow

[orion]

 

Right. Slowly.

 

Back in 2002, because Sky had missed showing the title deciders in the previous three years, they asked (or maybe demanded) that play-offs be introduced so that they can show the finals and definitely get the title decider live, as it happens. Therefore play-offs were introduced and we have play-offs to ensure Sky get to show the title decider live. Subsequent events may have shown that these matches do make a few quid for the competing teams but that does not alter the fact that we have play-offs because Sky want to show the (EL) title decider live.

 

Had events run differently back at the turn of the century and Sky had managed to show the title deciders in those three previous years live, they, in all probability, would have been content with things as they were and may not have asked for play-offs in the first place and the possibility is there that speedway would not have them now.

 

For whatever reason, the PL asked for play-offs (though initially as part of a much heralded by Sky promotion/relegation package which went off like a lead balloon since the PL play-off winners declined promotion and the EL losers insisted on staying up) but that doesn't alter the fact that play-offs are in to ensure Sky show the EL title decider live.

 

So, in a nutshell, the play-offs exist to ensure Sky get the EL title decider live on air as it happens.

Yet again slowly ..I gave reasons for why we have play offs ..you then try to say that they were untrue and the reason we have them in speedway is because sky want to show a title decider ...quite clearly in speedway we have them in the pl that does not have sky showing the tile decider ...so in a nutshell your are wrong .

Edited September 25, 2015 by orion

[arnieg]

The PL has play-offs. Sky are not showing them. The PL play-offs do no exist for Sky, they exist because they bring in a crowd and make promoters money. They bring in a crowd because people like them. It's an added bonus in the EL that Sky like them too, but Sky like them because they get high viewing figure, they get high viewing figures because people watch to watch them, people watch things they like. Thus the play-offs exist because people like them!

And we are continually being told how much better speedway is in Sweden (where they have playoffs), Poland (where they have playoffs) and Denmark (where they have a Grand Final).

 

They can't all be wrong can they?

[ouch]

The PL has play-offs. Sky are not showing them. The PL play-offs do no exist for Sky, they exist because they bring in a crowd and make promoters money. They bring in a crowd because people like them. It's an added bonus in the EL that Sky like them too, but Sky like them because they get high viewing figure, they get high viewing figures because people watch to watch them, people watch things they like. Thus the play-offs exist because people like them!

I think the viewing figuares are good because it's a title decider. People like to watch those whether it's in the form of play offs or not. The problem is being around for the decider when it's run as a normal league campaign which is pretty much what Vincent was saying.

[stratton]

Sid, Jack Young was already one of the best riders in the world in 1950 - he topped the qualifiers. So it's not unreasonable on think that he would have won the 1950 Grand Prix Challenge, and then won the 1951 GP series.

 

Tai Woffinden was far more of an outsider in 2013.

 

All the best

Rob

Are you sure Rob? also you said it all he TOPPED the qualifiers Jack so he certainly deserved to be in it.Tai i am a big fan, want him to go on and win five titles which he is well capable of doing that year he was given a FREEBIE wild card after to be honest he had failed badly in the series.No comparison to Jack Young who we all know was a GREAT rider he earned it by getting through the Qualifiers now the qualifying system is suspect.

[oldace]

Are you sure Rob? also you said it all he TOPPED the qualifiers Jack so he certainly deserved to be in it.Tai i am a big fan, want him to go on and win five titles which he is well capable of doing that year he was given a FREEBIE wild card after to be honest he had failed badly in the series.No comparison to Jack Young who we all know was a GREAT rider he earned it by getting through the Qualifiers now the qualifying system is suspect.

 

 

Jack Young was top qualifier in 1950 but only managed 8th place at Wembley

 

In 1951 he was joint 7th qualifier and in 1952 joint second qualifier

 

You must have detested the old world finals though.

 

What right did Peter Craven have to be in the 1956 Final. How can Briggo justify being called world champion in 1958 (or 59 for that matter had he won) Ronnie Moore lost a run off for the 1960 world final and he was another on a FREEBIE

 

Of course the 70s plumbed new depths with the 4 finals in Poland giving freebies to 19 riders. 30 % of the fields in those finals were on FREEBIES, and one of these actually won.

 

I could go on

 

Now tell me which qualifying system is suspect

[Blackadder]

If the Promoters want Play Offs for financial reasons, then they will stay, but they really need to look at the disastrous effect that Play Offs have had on clubs' fixture lists.

[Alan_Jones]

If the Promoters want Play Offs for financial reasons, then they will stay, but they really need to look at the disastrous effect that Play Offs have had on clubs' fixture lists.

 

It's clubs that have had a disastrous effect on clubs' fixture lists.

[Agrotron]

Scrap em never favored them, also scrap the black and white double points rule.

[noggin]

As things stand at the moment I think the play off should stay, but perhaps make it top v 4th & 2nd v 3rd, also maybe the teams 5th-8th could have there own league cup competion to keep things going, not having an abrupt end to their season.

[Reviresco]

As there are 8 teams only in the current EL, why not go the whole hog and involve all 8 in the Play Off's?

 

1st v 8th [A], 2nd v 7th , 3rd v 6th [C], 4th v 5th [D].

 

[A] v [D] & v [C] to determine Finalists.

 

Give every team a 2nd chance - a bit like the use of GP Wild Cards which can allow riders a 2nd chance after not being good enough to qualify by right in an earlier round.

Edited September 26, 2015 by macca56

[customhouseregular]

I take it your tongue was firmly in cheek whilst posting the above

[stratton]

Jack Young was top qualifier in 1950 but only managed 8th place at Wembley

 

In 1951 he was joint 7th qualifier and in 1952 joint second qualifier

 

You must have detested the old world finals though.

 

What right did Peter Craven have to be in the 1956 Final. How can Briggo justify being called world champion in 1958 (or 59 for that matter had he won) Ronnie Moore lost a run off for the 1960 world final and he was another on a FREEBIE

 

Of course the 70s plumbed new depths with the 4 finals in Poland giving freebies to 19 riders. 30 % of the fields in those finals were on FREEBIES, and one of these actually won.

 

I could go on

 

Now tell me which qualifying system is suspect

All i know is now eight riders now are guaranteed a series spot every year leaving eight spots is that a FAIR system.?

[customhouseregular]

sidney my friend, you, me and a few other boring old farts.dinosaurs.fossils are pi**ing in the wind where the World Championship is concerned, as our views are unworthy of respect...or so certain factions on this forum would have us believe .

[stratton]

sidney my friend, you, me and a few other boring old farts.dinosaurs.fossils are pi**ing in the wind where the World Championship is concerned, as our views are unworthy of respect...or so certain factions on this forum would have us believe .

I don't class you or i as an old Fart or a fossil Custom, it did make me laugh though.I actually like the series i still prefer the old WC always will,Wembley was some day out a special occasion and what was special was i spent it with my Dad.Am i wrong Custom? did the series have an affect on British speedway am i the only one that believes it.?

[customhouseregular]

Barry Briggs maintains that British speedway went in to decline after 1981 once Wembley was lost to the sport. He felt the old-style World Championship was harder to win but the GP system is fairer.

 

A GP does not have the same cachet as a world Final, hence 40,000 at Cardiff v 92,000 at Wembley.

 

The biggest loss to British speedway in my opinion IS the GP. When I were a lad it was almost obligatory to ride British League if you wanted to become World Champion. Today it pays not to ride in Britain.

[Grachan]

Barry Briggs maintains that British speedway went in to decline after 1981 once Wembley was lost to the sport. He felt the old-style World Championship was harder to win but the GP system is fairer.

 

A GP does not have the same cachet as a world Final, hence 40,000 at Cardiff v 92,000 at Wembley.

 

The biggest loss to British speedway in my opinion IS the GP. When I were a lad it was almost obligatory to ride British League if you wanted to become World Champion. Today it pays not to ride in Britain.

If you had a Wembley world final now you'd get about 40,000 there too.

 

The lower crowds aren't down to the GP system. They are down to a general decline in speedway's popularity.

Edited September 26, 2015 by grachan

[stratton]

If you had a Wembley world final now you'd get about 40,000 there too.

The lower crowds aren't down to the GP system. They are down to a general decline in speedway's popularity.

I recon you would get alot of people who were once regular speedway supporters going for this one/off if it was promoted and advertised properly.Wembley is a draw for me,if you went for the practice stayed over the weekend see the sites and then the meeting London has alot going for it.Also you would get a larger foreign contingent coming over for London because the place even if i am am not a lover of it is a pull. Edited September 27, 2015 by sidney

[PHILIPRISING]

Barry Briggs maintains that British speedway went in to decline after 1981 once Wembley was lost to the sport. He felt the old-style World Championship was harder to win but the GP system is fairer.

 

A GP does not have the same cachet as a world Final, hence 40,000 at Cardiff v 92,000 at Wembley.

 

The biggest loss to British speedway in my opinion IS the GP. When I were a lad it was almost obligatory to ride British League if you wanted to become World Champion. Today it pays not to ride in Britain.

BUT there were more than 92,000 people attending British speedway in 1981 and less than 40,000 now