Gavan Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Which is another reason why I have stated that they are NOT on the list - BUT will clearly be used as heat leaders by their respective clubs. If the BSPA 'Heat Leader standard' list (as it was described inn the BSPA statement) has been agreed by all the promoters as being fair, then why are there accusations of 'rule-bending'??. If a rider is signed from the list and is one of only 3 allowed from the list for each club, then fine. If a rider is signed who is not on the list then equally where is the issue> They will line-up in the riding order as determined by their averages. QED. Job done. Once again its all down to promoters seeing who is available and agreeing deals quickly. Poole have Hans(if on the list as he should be) Buck and Holder as heat leaders. That will leave them about 7 points for a second string that cant be on the heat leader list so what are the options for that final rider? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) The list of Heat Leaders has not been made public which I think is another way the sport lets itself down by not informing the fans of matters that are of interest and don't need to be kept confidential. Speedway fans are as avid followers of the sport and have a very good understanding of matters and holding back things like this treats them badly and like children. Here is what I have been told was the way the list is working as riders can move off onto the list depending on who else decides not to return or returns. This is not saying it is correct but as usual its complicated but that is not unusual in Speedway rules and regulations. Not including riders we know are not returning like Iversen, Janowski, Kildemand etc here is the list of 26 riders with the highest averages likely to start next season after riding in 2015. Riders that were or are doubling up and didn't start as a heat leader in 2015 are not included. The exception to the rule is Simon Stead who started as a heat leader at Belle Vue..Daniel King started as a heat leader as Kylmakorpi was added after the start of the season to replace Jamrog. Craig Cook is on the list as he isn't doubling up in 2016 and moves up full time. Any additional riders added with a 6+ average go onto the list in order and any riders that are not returning get removed. At present as two riders have joined the list, the riders listed at 23 and 24 may be allowed to start as second strings as long as a rider higher in the list doesnt start which would move them up the order. So Walasek at 22 may not be returning which would move Bjerre back in as a heat leader at 22. 01 = 9.44 Jason Doyle SWI 02 = 7.84 Andreas Jonsson LAKE 03 = 7.79 Grezgorz Zengota SWI 04 = 7.47 Chris Holder PLE 05 = 7.34 Chris Harris COV 06 = 7.29 Craig Cook BV 07 = 7.19 Davey Watt ....... LEI ? 08 = 6.98 Kim Nilsson LAKE 09 = 6.91 Troy Batchelor ...... KL ? 10 = 6.80 Jonas Kylmakorpi WOL 11 = 6.70 Nick Morris SWI 12 = 6.70 Simon Stead ....... BV ? 13 = 6.48 Daniel King COV 14 = 6.48 Scott Nicholls BV 15 = 6.45 Hans Andersen PLE 16 = 6.24 Rory Schlein ........ KL ? 17 = 6.18 Jacob Thorssell ....... LAKE ? 18 = 6.16 Mikkel Bech WOL 19 = 6.16 Max Fricke .......... LEI ? 20 = 6.11 Fredrik Lindgren WOL 21 = 5.91 Dakota North .......... KL ? 22 = 5.91 Gregorz Walasek ........... LEI ? ------------------------------------ 23 = 5.87 Kenneth Bjerre KL 24 = 5.67 Vaclav Milik 25 = 5.51 Peter Karlsson 26 = 5.51 Symon Wozniak LEI NEW RIDERS ADDED TO THE LIST 7.97 = Krzysztof Kasprzak COV 6.48 = Krzysztof Buczkowski PLE DOUBLING UP RIDERS NOT INCLUDED XX = 6.82 Aaron Summers XX = 6.59 Robert Lambert XX = 6.00 Josh Grajczonek XX = 5.91 Ricky Wells XX = 5.86 Edward Kennett XX = 5.65 Richard Lawson XX = 5.60 Sam Masters 6.55 Bjarne Pedersen could return to Lakeside making Walasek at Leicester a second string and move Thorssell to Leicester. So unless new riders are added to the list this is what could be the final list of teams ...... COULD BE !! THREE HEAT LEADERS PER TEAM Belle Vue (39.50) = Cook, Nicholls and Stead . .......... Summers and Worrall as a second strings .... Worrall / 3,00 Coventry (39,30) = Kasprzak, Harris and King ...... Karlsson and Garrity as a second strings ..... Sarjeant / Bates Kings Lynn (38.82) = Batchelor, Schlein and North . ...... Bjerre and Lambert as second strings ..... Kerr / Rose Lakeside (39.64/5) = Jonsson, Nilsson and Thorssell ........ Kennett and Lawson as second strings ..... Blackbird / Mears Leicester (38.92/6) = Watt, Fricke and Walasek ........ Wozniak and Masters as a second strings ...... Auty / Starke Poole (38.91) = Holder, Buczkowski and Andersen ...... Kurtz and Grajczonek as a second strings ...... Newman / Ellis Swindon (36.26/6) = Doyle, Zengota and Morris ......... Sedgeman and 3.00 as second strings ..... Wright / Nielsen Wolves (37.84) = Kylmakorpi, Lindgren and Bech ...... Wells and Joel Andersson 5.50 as second strings ..... Howarth / Clegg PS; This also shows the limit could be 39.50 as most will struggle to get to 40.5 ...... remember this is only an example and averages used may not be fully correct by are about right in some cases. Edited November 22, 2015 by T.N.T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 You dont think Poole will want him as a second string??? Of course they would. As is say Hans Andersen should be on the list quite clearly. The cloak and dagger of it all will only lead to accusations. If somehow Hans or Buck are classed as second strings its farcical and makes the sport a joke. Poole fans want Hans as SS like Coventry fans would want King as SS. The only difference being Neil Watson has come on here and said King is on the list, whereas Poole haven't done that with Hans so still a question mark over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 well said tnt Im sure the south coast mob will not agree with their 3 heat leaders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Poole have Hans(if on the list as he should be) Buck and Holder as heat leaders. That will leave them about 7 points for a second string that cant be on the heat leader list so what are the options for that final rider? Watt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Poole fans want Hans as SS like Coventry fans would want King as SS. The only difference being Neil Watson has come on here and said King is on the list, whereas Poole haven't done that with Hans so still a question mark over it. Thats because im sure behind the scene Ford is trying to pull a fast one somehow. Hans Andersen 15th best average in the elite league yet Poole fans think he shouldnt be in the list of 24!! Come on wake up! Watt? is that the Davey Watt the 7th highest rider that you also want as a second string lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Wow yet again the fans of the Poole 'fiddlers' Pirates amaze. There will be a list with the names of 24 heat leaders on it from last seasons elite league - simple If someone comes back to this country after having a break and there average is higher than someone on the list they come back as a heat leader if that average was gained in a heat leader position - simple Any rider coming back to the uk does not replace someone on the list. I.E the 24th rider on the list doesnt become a second string now if KK is back or anyone else - simple. Ok to follow your suggestion to a conclusion, a question I have asked before - If riders come back after a couple of years away eg KK and Buzz (maybe others yet to be announced) then what happens to the other heat leader standard of the 24 on the list who won't get a job because clubs can only choose 3 at most? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Thats because im sure behind the scene Ford is trying to pull a fast one somehow. Hans Andersen 15th best average in the elite league yet Poole fans think he shouldnt be in the list of 24!! Come on wake up! I haven't said anywhere that Hans shouldn't be on the list, course he should. But on other places people have indicated he'll be SS. Who knows if they are right or not! I have no idea but it gives you some doubt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Ok to follow your suggestion to a conclusion, a question I have asked before - If riders come back after a couple of years away eg KK and Buzz (maybe others yet to be announced) then what happens to the other heat leader standard of the 24 on the list who won't get a job because clubs can only choose 3 at most? They dont ride its simple really. You cant make rider number 24 on the heat leader list become a second string because KK is back 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Thats because im sure behind the scene Ford is trying to pull a fast one somehow. Hans Andersen 15th best average in the elite league yet Poole fans think he shouldnt be in the list of 24!! Come on wake up! is that the Davey Watt the 7th highest rider that you also want as a second string lol Who rode last season as second string!!! Can't have it both ways Gavan! Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I haven't said anywhere that Hans shouldn't be on the list, course he should. But on other places people have indicated he'll be SS. Who knows if they are right or not! I have no idea but it gives you some doubt! The only people who think Hans isnt in the top 24 riders are Poole fans with their own agenda. Yet to see any Coventry fans moaning that King is a heat leader? Hans Andersen had roughly the 15th best average. So in that respect any fan of a rider form 16-24 can expect there rider to ride as second string? Come on you know he should be a heat leader. Poole are looking for a way to have Holder Watt Hans and Buck and it cant happen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Ok to follow your suggestion to a conclusion, a question I have asked before - If riders come back after a couple of years away eg KK and Buzz (maybe others yet to be announced) then what happens to the other heat leader standard of the 24 on the list who won't get a job because clubs can only choose 3 at most? As stated in my earlier post the list is more than 24 and the top 24 that start the season are classed as heat leaders, so riders at the bottom of the list could move onto or off the list. At present Kenneth Bjerre is 25th but if Walasek doesnt return he moves up to 24th and on the list. Likewise, if a 6+ rider comes into the league, the rider at 24 moves down to 25 and therefore a second string. So Swindon can be confident that Doyle, Zengota and Morris will be in the 24 and sign them where as Kings Lynn have to be careful with Bjerre and signing other heat leaders in case he is included on the list. ....... so its like a 24 rung ladder and a ridr is on each rung or standing at the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Panda Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) To add to your list TNT the reserves at Lakeside are Blackbird (tbc) and Mear (confirmed) Also I remember seeing that R Worrall is at reserve at BV with his brother.............not quite sure what that is all about but I am certain that is in the article on the BV website..................(Sorry misread that bit but it is badly worded on there he is in the main team but has a 4.10 average) What annoys me is that people are assuming riders are on the heat leader list when indeed none of us have any idea what the criteria is (as I said before) but as I have also mentioned else where those that started at second string last year in some cases ie Davey Watt have over inflated averages because of riding against reserves more and some heat leaders have lower averages than what they should as well...............the majority of heat leaders spent a short spell at second string last season anyway............... I have no idea why people are blaming Poole for this when like with the draft they have nothing to do with the way the riders are selected for it............ Its down to the powers that be who make the rules and all teams have the same rules to work to...............so its not favouring anyone in theory.................if anything some riders with around a 6 point average may find it harder to get a team place.............. RP PS and by the way why has everyone assumed Holder is in the Poole line up when it is yet to be confirmed................ Edited November 22, 2015 by Red Panda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 To add to your list TNT the reserves at Lakeside are Blackbird (tbc) and Mear (confirmed) Also I remember seeing that R Worrall is at reserve at BV with his brother.............not quite sure what that is all about but I am certain that is in the article on the BV website.................. PS and by the way why has everyone assumed Holder is in the Poole line up when it is yet to be confirmed................ The Worrall brothers could be both at reserve to form possibly the strongest pairing which backs them up from having mediocre second strings, Holder not confirmed and may well be another GP rider forgetting Britain and Davey Watt staying at Poole instead ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Who rode last season as second string!!! Can't have it both ways Gavan! Lol.Hans rode most of last season as a heat leader. Davey watt is a bit harder like king as rode as both. However if king is on the list then watt will also be esp as he has a higher average Edited November 22, 2015 by mdmc82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Hans rode most of last season as a heat leader. Davey watt is a bit harder like king as rode as both. However if king is on the list then watt will also be esp as he has a higher average Yes, i know that. I have no issue with Hans being on the list. Depends on how many meetings Watt was SS/HL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 As stated in my earlier post the list is more than 24 and the top 24 that start the season are classed as heat leaders, so riders at the bottom of the list could move onto or off the list. At present Kenneth Bjerre is 25th but if Walasek doesnt return he moves up to 24th and on the list. Likewise, if a 6+ rider comes into the league, the rider at 24 moves down to 25 and therefore a second string. So Swindon can be confident that Doyle, Zengota and Morris will be in the 24 and sign them where as Kings Lynn have to be careful with Bjerre and signing other heat leaders in case he is included on the list. ....... so its like a 24 rung ladder and a ridr is on each rung or standing at the side. Is that the case? I cant see how that can happen. Technically with what you are saying you can sign the bottom 2 riders on the heat leader list (North and Walasek) then as long as you sign 3 riders with higher averages than North and Walasek that those 2 can then be second strings? That surely becomes farcical. Coventry have signed 3 heat leaders KK, Harris and King. They have 7.27 spare. So you are saying Coventry can now sign a rider on that average and King will become a second string? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford Ace Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Surely if u can get 7 riders within the limit set then who gives a toss re heat leaders and second strings?? Christ, why did the BSPA muppets bother adding this ridiculous list in the first place?? The rules r simple - a 40.5 point limit for 7 riders - end of. Don't really see what a million pages of bickering is all about?? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Yes, i know that. I have no issue with Hans being on the list. Depends on how many meetings Watt was SS/HL.Think it should also depend on how much they averaged as a heat leader. King only averaged 4+ points yet is counted as a heatleader. I'm not really sure what the bspa's aim was of using a heatleader list and a higher point limit this year. Edited November 22, 2015 by mdmc82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Hollywood should make a new film, 'Indiana Jones and the Heatleader List'. If anyone can find it, he can... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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