lisa-colette Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 He tends to start seasons off well. Interesting to see how long it lasts! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhine Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) If and when garrity drops to reserve and one if the fast track reserves come into the the main body of the team could we replace sarj or bates with someone or do we have to keep both of the fast trackers in the team ? Edited April 1, 2016 by muffinman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 If and when garrity drops to reserve and one if the fast track reserves come into the the main body of the team could we replace sarj or bates with someone or do we have to keep both of the fast trackers in the team ? It would be a farce if you can drop a draft rider for a better quality rider. Completely defeats the object of the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G the Bee Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) It would be a farce if you can drop a draft rider for a better quality rider. Completely defeats the object of the draft. The fact that some riders are included in the draft who have been around for years completely defeats the object of the draft. The fact that riders who were tier 1 draft riders 2 seasons ago and are still in the draft this season, completely defeats the object of the draft. The fact that riders deemed too good for the draft 2 seasons ago are now draft riders, completely defeats the object of the draft. The fact draft riders can move into the 1-5 completely defeats the object of the draft. The purpose of the draft, which was designed to improve young, up-and-coming riders, has long been forgotten. It's a farce now. What difference will one more farce make? Edited April 1, 2016 by G the Bee 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 If and when garrity drops to reserve and one if the fast track reserves come into the the main body of the team could we replace sarj or bates with someone or do we have to keep both of the fast trackers in the team ?you could replace them but only with a rider from the draft lists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 The fact that some riders are included in the draft who have been around for years completely defeats the object of the draft. The fact that riders who were tier 1 draft riders 2 seasons ago and are still in the draft this season, completely defeats the object of the draft. The fact that riders deemed too good for the draft 2 seasons ago are now draft riders, completely defeats the object of the draft. The fact draft riders can move into the 1-5 completely defeats the object of the draft. The purpose of the draft, which was designed to improve young, up-and-coming riders, has long been forgotten. It's a farce now. What difference will one more farce make? What isn't a farce is that we are finally looking after the British riders and future. It's not perfect but it's better than falsely averaged foreign riders using our league to the benefit of their own country. Now that was a farce. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G the Bee Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) What isn't a farce is that we are finally looking after the British riders and future. It's not perfect but it's better than falsely averaged foreign riders using our league to the benefit of their own country. Now that was a farce. Your post, to me, sums up what the original idea of the draft was. The chance for young up-and coming riders to get EL experience to push them on in their career. To look after the future of British riders. Which is why, in the first season, established EL riders were left out. It wasn't perfect in its first season, but it was better than what we have now. All it is now is a way for the bottom two riders in the team to be British and (I suspect) paid less. What should have happened after the first year is that the top few draft riders who had averaged over 'x' (Garrity, Newman, Blackbird etc) should have been forced to move up into the 1-5 and new NL riders brought in. That also would have meant that if you had a high flying draft rider (as Bees and Poole did in 2014) they would not be able to benefit two years on the trot (as Bees and Poole did in 2015). Once they tinkered with it after the first season, it lost all its impact for me. There are riders in that draft (Auty, Wilkinson, Newman, Howarth) who, if the draft was about helping young or inexperienced riders progress, should not still be in it. Auty, for example, has been around for years. He's not going to get any better. What's he doing in the draft? What's Howarth, who was too good for the draft in 2014 and 2015, doing in it? What's Wilkinson, who's 34 and has been riding since 1997 doing in it? And then there is Newman, who has been pretty much the class of the draft for the last 2 years but still needs to be in it! Why? Where's the progression there? Lets not kid ourselves that the draft has anything to do with helping 'the future' of British riders. It's not. Now that the top averaging draft riders are able to move into the 1-5 we have a situation where non-British riders like Davey Watt, Brady Kurtz, Sam Masters, Jacob Thorsell or Rohan Tungate can drop into reserve to get easier rides against lower average British draft riders such as Max Clegg, Stefan Nielsen or Josh Bates/James Sargeant. Not perfect. It's a joke! Edited April 1, 2016 by G the Bee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) whats a farce is how they were rated and a certain club that moaned about the draft when it first came in cuz they had probably the weakest rider now has the strongest 2 draft riders but hey it has nothing to do with neil vatcher former poole fan and craig boyces mechanic. seems like there slowly moving away from having the drafts anyway.....but thats down to one club wanting foreigners all the time Edited April 1, 2016 by heathen chemistry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 whats a farce is how they were rated and a certain club that moaned about the draft when it first came in cuz they had probably the weakest rider now has the strongest 2 draft riders but hey it has nothing to do with neil vatcher former poole fan and craig boyces mechanic. seems like there slowly moving away from having the drafts anyway.....but thats down to one club wanting foreigners all the time I'm not sure how good the draft is anyway when wasn't it meant to help British riders gain experience yet we have Newman, Auty & Howarth in it who have been riding in the EL for years! Think if they are going to have those kind of riders in it then they need to make it more balanced. If Howarth is in it then add riders like Barker, Robson & R Worrall not last year's tier 2 riders to make up the numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisa-colette Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 whats a farce is how they were rated and a certain club that moaned about the draft when it first came in cuz they had probably the weakest rider now has the strongest 2 draft riders but hey it has nothing to do with neil vatcher former poole fan and craig boyces mechanic. seems like there slowly moving away from having the drafts anyway.....but thats down to one club wanting foreigners all the time So Coventry are rubbish and basically it is Poole's fault? Some things never change! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game On Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 So Coventry are rubbish and basically it is Poole's fault? Some things never change! I don't blame Poole, it's down to our promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Your post, to me, sums up what the original idea of the draft was. The chance for young up-and coming riders to get EL experience to push them on in their career. To look after the future of British riders. Which is why, in the first season, established EL riders were left out. It wasn't perfect in its first season, but it was better than what we have now. All it is now is a way for the bottom two riders in the team to be British and (I suspect) paid less. What should have happened after the first year is that the top few draft riders who had averaged over 'x' (Garrity, Newman, Blackbird etc) should have been forced to move up into the 1-5 and new NL riders brought in. That also would have meant that if you had a high flying draft rider (as Bees and Poole did in 2014) they would not be able to benefit two years on the trot (as Bees and Poole did in 2015). Once they tinkered with it after the first season, it lost all its impact for me. There are riders in that draft (Auty, Wilkinson, Newman, Howarth) who, if the draft was about helping young or inexperienced riders progress, should not still be in it. Auty, for example, has been around for years. He's not going to get any better. What's he doing in the draft? What's Howarth, who was too good for the draft in 2014 and 2015, doing in it? What's Wilkinson, who's 34 and has been riding since 1997 doing in it? And then there is Newman, who has been pretty much the class of the draft for the last 2 years but still needs to be in it! Why? Where's the progression there? Lets not kid ourselves that the draft has anything to do with helping 'the future' of British riders. It's not. Now that the top averaging draft riders are able to move into the 1-5 we have a situation where non-British riders like Davey Watt, Brady Kurtz, Sam Masters, Jacob Thorsell or Rohan Tungate can drop into reserve to get easier rides against lower average British draft riders such as Max Clegg, Stefan Nielsen or Josh Bates/James Sargeant. Not perfect. It's a joke! Agreed, however this is no quick fix. Do we really expect to have the next generation within 3 or 4 years? Ain't gonna happen. Let's face it there are only a handful of riders that should now be in the 1-5 after 3 seasons. Garrity, Newman, Steve Worrall, Auty. Agree there should be a limit to how many years they should be allowed to be on it. If more riders had the ambition of Garrity we might have more in the starting 1-5 and not take the easy and safe option and encouraged by the promoters to do so as well. We still aren't flush with enough riders ready for the EL draft yet, but it's coming. So 'bulking' the draft with riders that perhaps aren't meant to be on it is a necessary evil as far am I'm concerned. Better that than allowing other countries youngsters to get benefit here AFAIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 I don't blame Poole, it's down to our promotion. I blame the bspa for using PL averages and our promotion 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Dont think we can hang on till May to make changes they need doing asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) Dont think we can hang on till May to make changes they need doing asap.The problem is where do you start? The problem with weakness at reserve is there all season now as Garrity didn't want to start at reserve. Needed Bates or Sarjeant. It wouldn't be so bad if they had a strong top 5 to support them but they haven't. King is great as a 2nd string but often struggles as a heat leader. We needed a strong number 4 who had a higher average so they could ride as a heatleader instead. Kacper has potential but would have been better as our number 8 as weakens us having him & Garrity in the team when both are really number 2s. If Garrity had started at reserve then we could have had another DU rider in main team like Summers. Shame we didn't have Klymakorpi back as he was great esp at home. I'm not convinced Horton will make changes Edited April 1, 2016 by mdmc82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB252 Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 I'm not convinced Horton will make changes Me neither. Thing is, if he doesn't, he'll be struggling to pay the riders before long as he won't have anyone left in the stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 The problem is where do you start? The problem with weakness at reserve is there all season now as Garrity didn't want to start at reserve. Needed Bates or Sarjeant. It wouldn't be so bad if they had a strong top 5 to support them but they haven't. King is great as a 2nd string but often struggles as a heat leader. We needed a strong number 4 who had a higher average so they could ride as a heatleader instead. Kacper has potential but would have been better as our number 8 as weakens us having him & Garrity in the team when both are really number 2s. If Garrity had started at reserve then we could have had another DU rider in main team like Summers. Shame we didn't have Klymakorpi back as he was great esp at home. I'm not convinced Horton will make changes We are THREE points below the limit id change King and Woryna personally if the right riders are available. That would give us over 13 points to play with, thats a massive amount to have for a 3rd heatleader and 2nd string. Lets try and get closer to the limit so we can at least have a chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcts Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 We are THREE points below the limit id change King and Woryna personally if the right riders are available. That would give us over 13 points to play with, thats a massive amount to have for a 3rd heatleader and 2nd string. Lets try and get closer to the limit so we can at least have a chance.who could you get? Leicester tried to get decent riders all through the winter break without any success....I can't see Coventry picking up any decent riders they just aren't about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) who could you get? Leicester tried to get decent riders all through the winter break without any success....I can't see Coventry picking up any decent riders they just aren't about. Leicester being a Saturday track didnt help their cause. Also riders become available early season once they realise they are not going to get many meetings for their Polish or Swedish clubs. To be honest we only need to find one heat leader standard rider if we wait till May and King can drop to 2nd string but don't think fans will wait for that if poor form continues. Edited April 1, 2016 by woz01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) dilemmas for the management, gamble and make changes , or risk going more matches with same squad only to see it get worse and more fans stay away, and if changes are made , who? can teams only have 3 heat leaders in squad all year , meaning you carnt change woryna for a heat leader like larsen... Edited April 1, 2016 by heathen chemistry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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