T.N.T. Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Surely if u can get 7 riders within the limit set then who gives a toss re heat leaders and second strings?? Christ, why did the BSPA muppets bother adding this ridiculous list in the first place?? The rules r simple - a 40.5 point limit for 7 riders - end of. Don't really see what a million pages of bickering is all about?? It would be if there was riders around for 8 teams to get upto that limit 8 x 40.5 = 324 Riders available is around 300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Shovlar Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 I have no idea why people are blaming Poole for this when like with the draft they have nothing to do with the way the riders are selected for it............ Its down to the powers that be who make the rules and all teams have the same rules to work to...............so its not favouring anyone in theory.................if anything some riders with around a 6 point average may find it harder to get a team place............... The usual moronic suspects have to find a way of blaming something on Poole when its clear to anyone with an ounce if intelligence that the rules are made up by the BSPA and NOT Poole or Matt Ford. If the rules for 2016 are there for all clubs to use, then I am sure if Poole cheated, the remaining clubs would be jumping all over it and the 1-7 would be rejected. The problem is at this moment in time, there is no one better at working within the rules and producing champion winning teams than Matt Ford. And until another promoter comes along to challange Ford, it will remain this way for the foreseeable future. Dont blame Poole for cheating when they are working within the rules, no matter how good or bad the rules are. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Think it should also depend on how much they averaged as a heat leader. King only averaged 4+ points yet is counted as a heatleader. I'm not really sure what the bspa's aim was of using a heatleader list and a higher point limit this year. To stop Poole having 4 and Leicester 1 or 2 I guess. Last few seasons it has always been Poole, Coventry and Swindon in playoffs with Wolves struggling. Guess they want it stopped so other teams get a look in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 You cant make rider number 24 on the heat leader list become a second string because KK is back Is that the case? I cant see how that can happen. Technically with what you are saying you can sign the bottom 2 riders on the heat leader list (North and Walasek) then as long as you sign 3 riders with higher averages than North and Walasek that those 2 can then be second strings? That surely becomes farcical. Coventry have signed 3 heat leaders KK, Harris and King. They have 7.27 spare. So you are saying Coventry can now sign a rider on that average and King will become a second string? KK returns has made the rider at 23 become 25 technically as Buczkowski returning made 24 become 25 and now KK has made him 26 It only applies to new riders coming in like for example Buczkowski or if only Patryk Dudek on a 6.50 or more. Kings Lynn for example keeping Iversen would have meant Bjerre was further down the list and technically if it's right they could have had Bjerre and Lambert as second strings but would still have to be under the 40.5 limit. Swindon could be going for a strong top three of Doyle, Zengota and Morris which is fine but leaves them little when you add Wright and Nielsen at reserve it leaves just just over nine points for the last two which could mean another 3.00 starting at #2 with Wright eventually moving up However they hold the cards as they have the outright number one and one of the best of the rest in Zengota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) KK returns has made the rider at 23 become 25 technically as Buczkowski returning made 24 become 25 and now KK has made him 26 It only applies to new riders coming in like for example Buczkowski or if only Patryk Dudek on a 6.50 or more. Kings Lynn for example keeping Iversen would have meant Bjerre was further down the list and technically if it's right they could have had Bjerre and Lambert as second strings but would still have to be under the 40.5 limit. Swindon could be going for a strong top three of Doyle, Zengota and Morris which is fine but leaves them little when you add Wright and Nielsen at reserve it leaves just just over nine points for the last two which could mean another 3.00 starting at #2 with Wright eventually moving up However they hold the cards as they have the outright number one and one of the best of the rest in Zengota. So i am right in saying that Coventry have 7.27 left to play with. If they find a rider not on the list who is that average then Danny King will be a second string? Because what you are suggesting means Coventry have 7.27 left to play with but cant sign a rider higher than Kings average? Which means that technically you can sign North and Walasek (bottom 2 in the average) then sign 3 riders who didnt ride over here on higher averages , so that North and Walasek 'drop off' the list and become second strings? Makes no sense Edited November 22, 2015 by Gavan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherborne Green Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 The simple answer is none of the supporters know how the BSPA has decided how a team is made up. They say a maximum of 40.5 points. Fine this may be too high but it is clear. Then they say each team pick their reserves. A so called list is made up but I have not seen one published. Next they say no more than 3 heat leaders per team. No list is published. Stories go around that a heat leader is people with an average of over 6.5. People then question of did they get that average as a heat leader or second string. I can see where they are coming from BUT where are these rules and lists published. As far as I can see people are putting their own interpretation on these rules and some insist they are right. However, how do they know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 The usual moronic suspects have to find a way of blaming something on Poole when its clear to anyone with an ounce if intelligence that the rules are made up by the BSPA and NOT Poole or Matt Ford. If the rules for 2016 are there for all clubs to use, then I am sure if Poole cheated, the remaining clubs would be jumping all over it and the 1-7 would be rejected. The problem is at this moment in time, there is no one better at working within the rules and producing champion winning teams than Matt Ford. And until another promoter comes along to challange Ford, it will remain this way for the foreseeable future. Dont blame Poole for cheating when they are working within the rules, no matter how good or bad the rules are. Knickers in a twist yet again. Poole have history for bending or breaking the rules when they see fit and having a strop if it doesnt go there way. The majority of people questioning the heat leader list is Poole fans who for some reason think Hans should be a second string. The 15th highest placed rider is quite clearly amongst the top 24 riders and should be a heat leader. But what most are saying is that somehow bet your life Hans isnt on the list and its only Poole fans who believe he shouldnt be. If Hans Andersen had signed for any other club Poole fans would admit he is a heat leader The simple answer is none of the supporters know how the BSPA has decided how a team is made up. They say a maximum of 40.5 points. Fine this may be too high but it is clear. Then they say each team pick their reserves. A so called list is made up but I have not seen one published. Next they say no more than 3 heat leaders per team. No list is published. Stories go around that a heat leader is people with an average of over 6.5. People then question of did they get that average as a heat leader or second string. I can see where they are coming from BUT where are these rules and lists published. As far as I can see people are putting their own interpretation on these rules and some insist they are right. However, how do they know? Nobody has seen a list, nobody is saying they know the rules, its called a discussion. Im merely pointing out with the help of TNT list that Hans Andersen should be a heat leader. Im also asking if now Coventry have signed KK and have over 7 points left can they sign a rider with that average effectively having 4 heat leaders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherborne Green Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Gaven. I am not talking of you or anyone in particular. I am just saying it's all a mess really that could be sorted by someone giving real guidence as to what is really happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANANAMAN Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Sherborne Green, on 22 Nov 2015 - 3:35 PM, said:Sherborne Green, on 22 Nov 2015 - 3:35 PM, said: Gaven. I am not talking of you or anyone in particular. I am just saying it's all a mess really that could be sorted by someone giving real guidence as to what is really happening. The powers that be are just treating the paying public with contempt again .. They MUST read the forums & it makes no difference at all , all us SUPPORTERS wanted was clarity of which rider is on what list ..not a lot to ask is it really ? ..But no the MUG PUNTERS are left wanting again & again !! Edited November 22, 2015 by BANANAMAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Gaven. I am not talking of you or anyone in particular. I am just saying it's all a mess really that could be sorted by someone giving real guidence as to what is really happening. Sorry if you though that was aimed at you it wasnt. Nobody (yet lol) is having a dig at Poole, but it so happens that Hans Andersen is one of the riders involved ut im also discussing what Coventry can do with their 7.27 left over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbee Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Poole fans want Hans as SS like Coventry fans would want King as SS. The only difference being Neil Watson has come on here and said King is on the list, whereas Poole haven't done that with Hans so still a question mark over it.how can you have a question mark if Bech is a heat leader on 6.16 Hans has to be I'm sure Wolves said Lingren 6.11 is an heat leader so it's impossible for Hans not to be on the list Edited November 22, 2015 by kingbee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 The simple answer is none of the supporters know how the BSPA has decided how a team is made up. They say a maximum of 40.5 points. Fine this may be too high but it is clear. Then they say each team pick their reserves. A so called list is made up but I have not seen one published. Next they say no more than 3 heat leaders per team. No list is published. Stories go around that a heat leader is people with an average of over 6.5. People then question of did they get that average as a heat leader or second string. I can see where they are coming from BUT where are these rules and lists published. As far as I can see people are putting their own interpretation on these rules and some insist they are right. However, how do they know? Good post. Unfortunately the forum is plagued with people who read something then on the tortuous journey between their eye and their brain it somehow takes on a totally different meaning. All we really have to go on at the moment is the SCB announcement after the AGM. That is from the horses mouth, and nobody in an official capacity has actually said it is wrong. The official SCB statement doesn't say there is a list of 24 riders. It simply says there is "a list" . It doesn't say if a new foreign over 6.5 rides for an EL club he replaces someone else on the list. It simply says he JOINS the list. The statement doesn't say how the list is assessed, nothing about averages, or how often someone has ridden as heatleader. All we really know at the moment is that there is a list and clubs will be limited to 3 heatleaders from it. The rest is speculation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 So i am right in saying that Coventry have 7.27 left to play with. If they find a rider not on the list who is that average then Danny King will be a second string? Because what you are suggesting means Coventry have 7.27 left to play with but cant sign a rider higher than Kings average? Which means that technically you can sign North and Walasek (bottom 2 in the average) then sign 3 riders who didnt ride over here on higher averages , so that North and Walasek 'drop off' the list and become second strings? Makes no sense Coventry have in my opinion and according to many others got their three heat leaders in Kasprzak, Harris and King. If any team brings in a new rider like Shame Pawlicki 6.75 for example, the lowest on the list (#24) then becomes a second string and the only way King would be classed as a second string is if he was #25 on the list which is not going to happen so even if Coventry had 8.66 or 6.32 left, they can only sign a second string which will most likely be a 5+ rider like Kacper Gomolski 5.51 or Sam Masters 5.60. However I think Aaron Summers 6.82 is going to be classed as a second string as all of his average is from a second string role and therefore false and nowhere near his converted PL average which is probably more realistic. As I make it Coventry are Kasprzak 7.97, Harris 7.34, King 6.48, Garrity 5.29, Bates 3.45 and Sarjeant 3.12 is 33.65 which leaves 6.85 which is just enough for Summers 6.82 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWatson Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 As I make it Coventry are Kasprzak 7.97, Harris 7.34, King 6.48, Garrity 5.29, Bates 3.45 and Sarjeant 3.12 is 33.65 which leaves 6.85 which is just enough for Summers 6.82 Garrity 5.08, Bates 3.26, Sarjeant 3.00 While Aaron's average might fit, we already have our two double-up riders........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 how can you have a question mark if Bech is a heat leader on 6.16 Hans has to be I'm sure Wolves said Lingren 6.11 is an heat leader so it's impossible for Hans not to be on the listThere is a question mark because none of us knows who is on the list and what criteria they are using, unless Mr Watson would like to confirm if Hans is on the list or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.N.T. Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 How can a former GP winner and GP regular, World Team Cup rider, SEC rider and a heat leader in Poland, Sweden and Denmark NOT be a second string in the ultra strong British Elite League ....... surely he is close to being a Fast Track rider 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANANAMAN Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 NeilWatson, on 22 Nov 2015 - 4:50 PM, said: Garrity 5.08, Bates 3.26, Sarjeant 3.00 While Aaron's average might fit, we already have our two double-up riders........ Good Afternoon Neil , which of the secret lists is Mads Korneliussen on ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Coventry have in my opinion and according to many others got their three heat leaders in Kasprzak, Harris and King. If any team brings in a new rider like Shame Pawlicki 6.75 for example, the lowest on the list (#24) then becomes a second string and the only way King would be classed as a second string is if he was #25 on the list which is not going to happen so even if Coventry had 8.66 or 6.32 left, they can only sign a second string which will most likely be a 5+ rider like Kacper Gomolski 5.51 or Sam Masters 5.60. However I think Aaron Summers 6.82 is going to be classed as a second string as all of his average is from a second string role and therefore false and nowhere near his converted PL average which is probably more realistic. As I make it Coventry are Kasprzak 7.97, Harris 7.34, King 6.48, Garrity 5.29, Bates 3.45 and Sarjeant 3.12 is 33.65 which leaves 6.85 which is just enough for Summers 6.82 Coventry can still sign a rider up to 7.27 as long as they are not on the heatleader list. They don't have to sign somebody lower than King. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWatson Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 Coventry can still sign a rider up to 7.27 as long as they are not on the heatleader list. They don't have to sign somebody lower than King. 7.37 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 If tnt is correct that that is how the made the list, it is an utter farce. Bjerre without a doubt should be a hl. Watt should not. The sole purpose should be differentuatingthose with deflated averages. Though what they really should do us just weight averages, as many if us said at the start if 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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