John Davis In This Weeks Star

[Countershaftcounter]

All this talk about uprights is a load of crap. It'll never happen, the world's moved on. If you want to slow it down, reduce carb size to 28mm and maybe change the tyres. No need for everyone to change expensive frames, oh and maybe a bit of dirt on the tracks wouldn't go amiss

[Odds On]

Make sport safer whether it be slower bikes or by whatever method, and you will reduce injury's, if you reduce injury's you will reduce the need for guests, if you reduce the need for guests and the team advertised actually turns up myself and others will come back to the sport. Make it cheaper for riders to compete, they will keep more of their earnings, and won't need to double up, stop doubling up riders missing meetings and even more fans will return.

 

I disagree as the only people making money out of speedway are the riders and engine tuners. The people who should be making the money(the promoters) aren't.

[orion]

maybe but who is going to take the financial risk with their own or their businesses cash to invest in a team full of expensive world stars

 

if it works - fine - if it doesnt theyve lost their cash not yours or mine so there has to be another way

 

cost cutting ideas dont have to necessarily bring in fewer fans - e.g. most fans dont give a fig about the machinery and wouldnt care if much cheaper machinery was used where possible.

When did I say anything about World Stars ..I checked my post again I can't see it ..I say speedway needs to find ways to make crowds bigger that can be done in a number of ways .

[ch958]

When did I say anything about World Stars ..I checked my post again I can't see it ..I say speedway needs to find ways to make crowds bigger that can be done in a number of ways .

i agree it can be done in dozens of ways- i wrongly assumed you were referring to reduction in EL standards

[The White Knight]

Make sport safer whether it be slower bikes or by whatever method, and you will reduce injury's, if you reduce injury's you will reduce the need for guests, if you reduce the need for guests and the team advertised actually turns up myself and others will come back to the sport. Make it cheaper for riders to compete, they will keep more of their earnings, and won't need to double up, stop doubling up riders missing meetings and even more fans will return.

Logical Mr. Spock.

[tyler42]

All this talk about uprights is a load of crap. It'll never happen, the world's moved on. If you want to slow it down, reduce carb size to 28mm and maybe change the tyres. No need for everyone to change expensive frames, oh and maybe a bit of dirt on the tracks wouldn't go amiss

This though is where the problem lies with the laydown bikes. On more than one occasion I have read they are not suited to tracks where there is a lot of dirt.

You look at most meetings in this day and age. The riders come in from heat 1 with hardly any shale on there suits.

The tracks are setup slick as this is what most riders want. We've seen, when the tracks are a tad heavy. The riders what all the dirt scrapped off.

 

I agree we you, there is no point going back in time. Speedway today is a totally different sport to when the upright was used.

 

I loved speedway in the late 70's and 80's. That was my era, but the world moves on as does speedway.

[drosser]

There have been a lot of good points made in this thread. I agree that it is pointless trying to turn back the clock. The current engines seem to be pretty robust in standard form. Lets face it they are thrashed at around 12.000 rpm - much higher than the uprights were ever subjected to. I am not convinced that the basics are relatively much more expensive than they were in the seventies. I recall hat a decent, competitive second hand bike in the mid seventies was around £500. I reckon that wages have increased by around 700 - 800% equating to £3,500 - £4,000 which should buy something useful. The frightening thing from the cost point of view are things like carbs at a grand that require specialist tuning, clutches at a similar price and tuners who charge a fortune. That o may be o.k.for Grand Prixs where there should be big earnings but not necessary at league levels. Let's be honest, most speedway fans want to see close racing - not fast, difficult to control monsters. The regulations should be investigated by a panel of technical experts including some recently retired riders with high technical ability with a view to providing a list of approved accessories (carbs, clutches, camshafts etc.). There should no tampering with standard equipment allowed(e.g. using specially lightened components etc.) with harsh penalties. Speedway should be about 4 guys on equal equipment battling to be best in each race. Obviously, the riders should be allowed to fine tune their engines to track conditions - that is part of the skill required but only adjustments of existing components. If we continue down the route of the richest riders having unfair advantages we will end up like F1 where the most exciting thing is the amazing amount spent buying titles.

[FAST GATER]

There have been a lot of good points made in this thread. I agree that it is pointless trying to turn back the clock. The current engines seem to be pretty robust in standard form. Lets face it they are thrashed at around 12.000 rpm - much higher than the uprights were ever subjected to. I am not convinced that the basics are relatively much more expensive than they were in the seventies. I recall hat a decent, competitive second hand bike in the mid seventies was around £500. I reckon that wages have increased by around 700 - 800% equating to £3,500 - £4,000 which should buy something useful. The frightening thing from the cost point of view are things like carbs at a grand that require specialist tuning, clutches at a similar price and tuners who charge a fortune. That o may be o.k.for Grand Prixs where there should be big earnings but not necessary at league levels. Let's be honest, most speedway fans want to see close racing - not fast, difficult to control monsters. The regulations should be investigated by a panel of technical experts including some recently retired riders with high technical ability with a view to providing a list of approved accessories (carbs, clutches, camshafts etc.). There should no tampering with standard equipment allowed(e.g. using specially lightened components etc.) with harsh penalties. Speedway should be about 4 guys on equal equipment battling to be best in each race. Obviously, the riders should be allowed to fine tune their engines to track conditions - that is part of the skill required but only adjustments of existing components. If we continue down the route of the richest riders having unfair advantages we will end up like F1 where the most exciting thing is the amazing amount spent buying titles.

Very well put I have always believed that speedway should be about rider's skills not the deepest pockets ,league racing should by and large have fixed costs thus everyone knowing where they stand .

[Shale Searcher]

You are forgetting what the riders want....?

 

They prefer slick, smooth, motorway tracks, easier to ride, less damage to bike, much less likely to get injured, they are the ones to blame over dirtless, passless, tracks of the modern era, it's speed, speed and more speed...

Track craft is fast becoming a thing of the past...

Edited September 21, 2015 by Shale Searcher

[Trees]

Surely riders want the chance to pass, of course they do!! They must know that this sport needs passing = excitement to survive?

[FAST GATER]

You are forgetting what the riders want....?

 

They prefer slick, smooth, motorway tracks, easier to ride, less damage to bike, much less likely to get injured, they are the ones to blame over dirtless, passless, tracks of the modern era, it's speed, speed and more speed...

Track craft is fast becoming a thing of the past...

I take your point but IMO anyone who rides a s/way bike flat out in race conditions has Track craft we just need them to use it in other ways and as a sport must not let the tail "wag the dog".

[michaelcroucher]

I haven’t read the whole of this topic but I have read all of page 1 bit of page 2. Over the years speedway has actually got cheaper. I had ago at speedway more than 22 years ago. When I first started out prices on a regular basis would change. One week a spark plug would cost £35 the next week it had gone up to £50. My dad kept all the paper work on my speedway and I didn’t do it for that long due to money. The price of getting started without parts was around £1200 I had to save if I remember right. Now you can still buy good 2^nd hand equipment and get started for around £1500. So it has not gone up that much over the years. I really don’t know why people would go out and pay £4000 for all the equipment for a child and think that they are going to be good. I think they need to start at grass roots and buy 2^nd hand speedway and maybe 2^nd hand grasstrack. They would learn a lot and like some of the young guns at grasstrack at present. Some people talk about uprights and I am back on the saddle racing again on grass but on an upright. If you look at the times of an upright is not much slower than a laydown and the maintenance cost is a lot less. If speedway is to get back on track with other European countries then think again. We will never be back up there like it used to be. I don’t think it is to do with money. I t has to do with lots of things. People watch their money a bit more, less tracks so people have further to travel and you have to promote the sport, and getting people interested. I know in Poland that they have youth scheme where the family does not buy the equipment to begin with, and if the club thinks the child has skill then they take them under their wings and train them up. Its then when they have to start buying the equipment. Maybe one day speedway will get back on top in the UK.

[SCB]

You need promoters, without them you have no meeting at all. You need the riders, with them the meetings are pointless as you have no racing. But if you remove engine tuners, what happens? Engine tuners are basically parasites, they need to be removed. Get rid of them and the sport saves a fortune. It's just a case of working out how, sadly I don't have that answer.

[FAST GATER]

You need promoters, without them you have no meeting at all. You need the riders, with them the meetings are pointless as you have no racing. But if you remove engine tuners, what happens? Engine tuners are basically parasites, they need to be removed. Get rid of them and the sport saves a fortune. It's just a case of working out how, sadly I don't have that answer.

Well put could not agree more one day the penny may drop and the riders will think along the same lines but not holding my breath !!!!

[uk_martin]

...The people who should be making the money(the promoters) aren't.

And as soon as word got out that promoters were making a profit BSF would be full of "Promoters ripping off the fans" threads...maybe?

[Trees]

And as soon as word got out that promoters were making a profit BSF would be full of "Promoters ripping off the fans" threads...maybe?

Of course! But as long as the fans felt they were getting value for money don't think they would have a prob, they didn't care years ago when everyone was rolling in it lol

 

Just a shame that the then promoters didn't put the sport on a better footing .......

Edited September 25, 2015 by Trees

[uk_martin]

Someone define "value for money" please? There is already talk of speedway being a £10 sport. If at £10 promoters make money there will be a clamour for speedway to become a £5 sport. There's simply no pleasing the BSF brand of speedway fan.

[uk_martin]

Just a shame that the then promoters didn't put the sport on a better footing .......

That's an easy accusation to make but look at the ages of promoters. Most are in their last year's before retirement. Their cares are about how many feathers they can gather for their nest before they receive their bus passes. They have no incentives to look beyond their own pension books and to care for the future of the sport.

[robert72]

Someone define "value for money" please? There is already talk of speedway being a £10 sport. If at £10 promoters make money there will be a clamour for speedway to become a £5 sport. There's simply no pleasing the BSF brand of speedway fan.

Speedway is not worth anymore than £10

[Trees]

That's an easy accusation to make but look at the ages of promoters. Most are in their last year's before retirement. Their cares are about how many feathers they can gather for their nest before they receive their bus passes. They have no incentives to look beyond their own pension books and to care for the future of the sport.

I was thinking more that perhaps they could have set something up akin to footy maybe but perhaps that is me being nieve. All that many of them did was sell up for big bucks housing 😕