Team Strength 2016

[Ben91]

And that's the point injured rider out long term constant guests rr and no rider to fill that space hence lack of riders.

That's not a lack of riders though, that's teams not signing a replacement.

[NJC71]

Can't understand why some are arguing that there are plenty of riders - sorry but there aren't. Some teams are able to sign replacements, perhaps because of race nights, finance etc. But a number simply haven't been able to. No point in suggesting changes to race nights because it won't work. Many teams have limited access to stadiums or won't move to different race nights because historically crowds are poor on other nights so it would be financial suicide.

 

You only have to look back to the 80's/early 90's and compare the number of riders competing in this country compared to today. There was no doubling up then and the difference with a similar number of teams is staggering.

 

6 man teams has to be worth looking at. I would even support a return to the 13 heat formula and meaningful second halfs.

[Ben91]

Can't understand why some are arguing that there are plenty of riders - sorry but there aren't. Some teams are able to sign replacements, perhaps because of race nights, finance etc. But a number simply haven't been able to. No point in suggesting changes to race nights because it won't work. Many teams have limited access to stadiums or won't move to different race nights because historically crowds are poor on other nights so it would be financial suicide.

 

You only have to look back to the 80's/early 90's and compare the number of riders competing in this country compared to today. There was no doubling up then and the difference with a similar number of teams is staggering.

 

6 man teams has to be worth looking at. I would even support a return to the 13 heat formula and meaningful second halfs.

They have though, there are no six man teams, all have a full seven. You cannot say there are not enough riders until there is literally one less rider in the country than the amount of team places in the league.

[Shale Searcher]

They have though, there are no six man teams, all have a full seven. You cannot say there are not enough riders until there is literally one less rider in the country than the amount of team places in the league.

Ok, so if there's 12 teams in the league, that's 94 riders needed at the start of the season, agreed?

 

So what do the "spare" unsigned riders do until teamed riders either get injured, lose form, or decide they've had enough?

 

Where do they earn their money, unless you then start bringing in lower league riders or the aforementioned Jonny foreigners that do nothing to enhance the sport and clog up reserve berths....

[Ben91]

Ok, so if there's 12 teams in the league, that's 94 riders needed at the start of the season, agreed?

 

So what do the "spare" unsigned riders do until teamed riders either get injured, lose form, or decide they've had enough?

 

Where do they earn their money, unless you then start bringing in lower league riders or the aforementioned Jonny foreigners that do nothing to enhance the sport and clog up reserve berths....

The same as they do every year before they get team spots. I have no issues with the overseas riders who are competitive, when they are rubbish yet keep getting team spot after team spot that's where there is an issue. There is a simple solution to that, assessed riders averages stay at their assessed figure if they do not achieve a higher average than that assessed number.

 

Having a draft system for British reserves only removes the poor lower end riders who get contracts year after year, or they become riders waiting for the phone to ring at the start of the year. That creates a bigger surplus of riders, not a shortage.

[Steve55]

Ok, so if there's 12 teams in the league, that's 94 riders needed at the start of the season, agreed?

Not agreed actually - 12 teams at 7 riders per team is 84 riders, if including a number 8 that would be 96 riders required. Still would appear to be enough riders about at the beginning of the season!

[Norfolk Bear]

We need to change so many things , for a start

 

No guests - if you have an injury maximum is R/R

Only allow D/U between PL & NL , this would encourage teams signing extra youngsters to build a squad

EL to raise the limit to 45 , they also must go to a single race night.

 

Radical but in truth what we want to see .

[oldtimer]

Guests are a necessary evil that Speedway supporters have to live with. Choosing R/R is an option but not always the best one.

 

I cannot foresee British Speedway ever having squads.

Speedway supporters don't have to live with it they can walk away, which is what they are doing.

Agree RR is part of the sport but it's not a good side to it surely something has to be done to reduce it not a great believer in it. Reduced team numbers altered format has to be a start let's face we all believe the sport needs change so why not be radical. For me I would like 6 man teams non of your changes because the reserve is going well and somebody else isn't so he has 7 rides. Track reserves for an injured rider only thing I would say if a heat leader gets injured in his first heat two of his rides taken by othe heat leaders one by reserve and one by the track reserve.

The reserve should not be allowed to have 7 rides and score a potential 21 points. 6 rides is enough to cover an early heat injury. Assuming an injury occurs in heat 1 that rider has to be covered in his next 3 rides and a 6 ride reserve limit more than covers this.

[JCookie]

Speedway supporters don't have to live with it they can walk away, which is what they are doing.

The reserve should not be allowed to have 7 rides and score a potential 21 points. 6 rides is enough to cover an early heat injury. Assuming an injury occurs in heat 1 that rider has to be covered in his next 3 rides and a 6 ride reserve limit more than covers this.

 

Especially given there are 2 reserves, no need for 7 rides.

[Ben91]

We need to change so many things , for a start

 

No guests - if you have an injury maximum is R/R

Only allow D/U between PL & NL , this would encourage teams signing extra youngsters to build a squad

EL to raise the limit to 45 , they also must go to a single race night.

 

Radical but in truth what we want to see .

Squads if implemented need to be done from the EL down. Guests are a necessary evil, so is R/R. As I've said before though it's when the facilities are being used for riders racing for their other British club that things become a joke. One racenight in the EL cures that issue, one racenight in the EL is also what the top riders want to race over here, in turn that is what fans want because they want the strongest EL possible.

 

Draft reserves would be similar to having a rider base of youngsters, on the few occasions they will be missing if they have NL meeting clashes then another rider from the draft list guests or alternatively clubs draft a number eight too and then he can step in at reserve.

 

Doubling up between EL and PL is fine but should be for Brits only. A 45 point limit in the EL would be awful, the gap between the top and bottom teams would be huge and the few world class riders wanting to be over here would be the subject of a bidding war. Also what about the EL draft reserves then?

[NJC71]

They have though, there are no six man teams, all have a full seven. You cannot say there are not enough riders until there is literally one less rider in the country than the amount of team places in the league.

 

Yes I can and no they don't all have a full seven. There are less riders than team places and has been pretty much all season. Newcastle and Redcar to name but two have been running with 5 man teams for a good while now. Sheffield ran with a 6 man team pretty much all year. Berwick don't have a full 7. There have been loads of other examples of teams running with guests and rider replacement for weeks and weeks. It is not about having enough riders to fill 1-7's at the start of the season. There are always going to be injuries, loss of form, in season retirements etc so there needs to be plenty of riders in reserve for speedway to get by and there just aren't enough of them. The number of new riders coming into British speedway every year, be it young Brits or new foreign riders has been declining year on year and it's getting worse. Check the facts.

Edited September 20, 2015 by NJC71

[Ben91]

 

Yes I can and no they don't all have a full seven. There are less riders than team places and has been pretty much all season. Newcastle and Redcar to name but two have been running with 5 man teams for a good while now. Sheffield ran with a 6 man team pretty much all year. Berwick don't have a full 7. There have been loads of other examples of teams running with guests and rider replacement for weeks and weeks. It is not about having enough riders to fill 1-7's at the start of the season. There are always going to be injuries, loss of form, in season retirements etc so there needs to be plenty of riders in reserve for speedway to get by and there just aren't enough of them. The number of new riders coming into British speedway every year, be it young Brits or new foreign riders has been declining year on year and it's getting worse. Check the facts.

They haven't had to though have they? They've had seven declared and there have been riders available to sign. There are riders to fill every team from the start to the end of the season. Check the facts.

[Tsunami]

They haven't had to though have they? They've had seven declared and there have been riders available to sign. There are riders to fill every team from the start to the end of the season. Check the facts.

What facts do you read. You keeping ignoring the fact that team places in both the EL and PL are being taken up by the same rider during DU. There are less riders than team places, now thats a FACT.

 

You are on a windup, right.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Tsunami

[NJC71]

They haven't had to though have they? They've had seven declared and there have been riders available to sign. There are riders to fill every team from the start to the end of the season. Check the facts.

Yeh right so these teams have loads of options and just basically can't be arsed to sign riders. You are in denial. Newcastle couldn't even get a guest for a KOC Semi-Final. Of course you'll be telling us that there were loads of riders desperate to ride but George just didn't bother asking.

[Tsunami]

Yeh right so these teams have loads of options and just basically can't be arsed to sign riders. You are in denial. Newcastle couldn't even get a guest for a KOC Semi-Final. Of course you'll be telling us that there were loads of riders desperate to ride but George just didn't bother asking.

Unfortunately Ben91 has regressed to his former Silly Ben days.

[MrMungo]

They haven't had to though have they? They've had seven declared and there have been riders available to sign. There are riders to fill every team from the start to the end of the season. Check the facts.

I'm with you on this one. There are always riders available to sign. Always. Valentin Grobauer was begging Neil Vatcher to e-mail the British Promoters to try and get him a team spot not so long ago. I know there are numerous others who would be very keen to come over, too. Whether they could hold their averages, whether they were affordable for the British clubs, and whether they would be totally committed to British Speedway is another matter entirely though!

 

There's always loads of riders in the NL who would jump at the chance at being given a fair shot in the PL, too.

 

The problem is, and it has been for a fair few years now, is that the strength of the PL is too strong for the vast majority of NL riders. That step is huge.

Every single year the PL seems to be getting stronger, with the EL going the opposite direction more often than not, resulting in some riders having similar sort of averages in the EL and PL.

If it is deemed there is not enough high quality riders to go around, I don't think 6 man teams are the answer, as has been mooted in this thread. They use 5 man teams in Denmark, and the race format is very 'same-y'. The most logical step would be to have 2 British reserves incorporated in a slightly lower points limit.

The down side to that, of course, is that people will whinge. And as we all know, Speedway fans love a whinge!

[allthegearbutnaeidea]

35 points limit for top 5 with 2 british reserves under the Prem average of 5.50 and obviously the NL riders put into a draft with the teams selecting there riders

[Ben91]

What facts do you read. You keeping ignoring the fact that team places in both the EL and PL are being taken up by the same rider during DU. There are less riders than team places, now thats a FACT.

 

You are on a windup, right.

There are plenty of riders in the National League who could step up to PL reserve berths under a draft system. That proves there are plenty of riders. The Premier League initially may be a bit weaker, but so what? It'll benefit speedway in Britain in the long run.

 

If doubling up was scrapped teams would still be able to field seven man line ups.

 

Yeh right so these teams have loads of options and just basically can't be arsed to sign riders. You are in denial. Newcastle couldn't even get a guest for a KOC Semi-Final. Of course you'll be telling us that there were loads of riders desperate to ride but George just didn't bother asking.

That conflicts the point though, the guest was for an injured rider right? Yes that is unfortunate but what I'm saying is there are plenty of riders who would sign for clubs on a full time basis and there can be no denying that.

 

Unfortunately Ben91 has regressed to his former Silly Ben days.

Needless comment really, discussing an issue is much more enjoyable when people don't resort to name calling.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Ben91

[NJC71]

i would love to see a list of all these riders who are available to sign, can commit to all fixtures and are affordable to all clubs.

 

NL riders is not the point, you cannot replace a heat leader or second string with a National League rider. Even then the vast majority are based in the South and their capability/desire to travel to the north of England/Scotland every week has always been an issue.

[sparkafag]

The biggest upside of the DU rule is that it reduces costs for clubs. It is something that’s so often overlooked in favour of this Speedway Sanctuary where sides have their own 1-7

 

I would also question the point re how “strong” the PL actually is and continues to become, I find that a bit of a fallacy personally, it is arguably a weaker league now than it was 10 years ago. It used to be that the best of European talent would use the PL as a launch pad (Nicki, Bjerre, Zagar etc) now those riders either don’t bother with the UK at all, or simply bypass the PL and go straight to the EL.

The two leagues are now closer together, but that is simply because the EL has lost riders like Pedersen, Woffinden, Crump (riders at the peak of their powers and the peak of the sport) rather than a massive over strengthening of the PL product. If you go back a few years the PL had riders who were working their way back having won a world title, been 3^rd in the world, competed in GP Finals etc. Now though the standard is such that PL riders either aren’t even getting (very few have ever had) wild card spots, or generally struggle when they do. A few years back you could regularly pick PL riders who were destined to compete in the GP (and the current field and previous fields confirm that) but now? Lambert, Kurtz maybe Holder? The rest will likely never be near it.

Edited September 21, 2015 by sparkafag