Ben91 Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 i would love to see a list of all these riders who are available to sign, can commit to all fixtures and are affordable to all clubs. NL riders is not the point, you cannot replace a heat leader or second string with a National League rider. Even then the vast majority are based in the South and their capability/desire to travel to the north of England/Scotland every week has always been an issue. It is the answer going forward however, riders were told for the EL draft if they wanted to be a part of it they had to ride for any team that picked them, there's the solution when it comes to riders not wanting to travel to the north. As for a list of all these riders, there are 91 rider slots in the PL, there have been more than 91 riders compete in the PL this season. That isn't a shortage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJC71 Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 It is the answer going forward however, riders were told for the EL draft if they wanted to be a part of it they had to ride for any team that picked them, there's the solution when it comes to riders not wanting to travel to the north. As for a list of all these riders, there are 91 rider slots in the PL, there have been more than 91 riders compete in the PL this season. That isn't a shortage. If there isn't a shortage of riders then I need you to tell me why, at nearly every meeting I attend, one or both teams use rider replacement or guests or quite often both. I can't remember the last time I watched a fixture between two 7 man teams. Why have several teams been unable to sign replacements for injured riders quickly, if at all. You are basically saying that those teams haven't bothered through choice. I know for a fact that's not the case. You insisted earlier that all PL teams are running with 7 man teams which they clearly aren't so forgive me for being somewhat sceptical over your claims re rider availability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Riders on an assessed Ave need to keep that Ave until they achieve it, If they good enough for the PL on a 7.00 then that shouldn't be a problem..? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 If there isn't a shortage of riders then I need you to tell me why, at nearly every meeting I attend, one or both teams use rider replacement or guests or quite often both. I can't remember the last time I watched a fixture between two 7 man teams. Why have several teams been unable to sign replacements for injured riders quickly, if at all. You are basically saying that those teams haven't bothered through choice. I know for a fact that's not the case. You insisted earlier that all PL teams are running with 7 man teams which they clearly aren't so forgive me for being somewhat sceptical over your claims re rider availability. 1. Injuries 2. Too many race nights meaning double uppers are riding for another team in Britain, this is unacceptable and remedied easily by having one race night in the EL as I've repeatedly said. Not once have I said teams haven't bothered to find replacements. All PL teams are running with seven man teams though, look at the team declarations there are none with "no rider" in them. The problem isn't lack of riders, it's is about rider availability and this is something easily rectified as I've said. You can't seriously believe running with six man teams will sort this out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJC71 Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 I'm far from convinced that the absence of double up riders is the key issue. I don't recall Steve Worrall missing a Newcastle match due to riding for Belle Vue. My argument is that it is very difficult for PL teams to permanently or temporarily replace injured riders. There might be 91 riders available at the start of the year but that's not going to be enough when the inevitable injuries occur. The evidence is there to prove it. Who can Newcastle sign to replace Christian Henry on a 6 point average? Teams declared with 7 riders is missing the point. Sheffield had Simon Stead declared for months. He isn't going to ride is he. Same for Newcastle with Henry & Kerr or Redcar with Bjerre & Robson or Berwick with Vissing. Who can these teams sign to replace those riders? Give us names? I'm sure Brian Havelock & George English would love to hear from you. If it wasn't for doubling up I doubt the EL would be able to exist. Anyway time to agree to disagree. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 My argument is that it is very difficult for PL teams to permanently or temporarily replace injured riders. There might be 91 riders available at the start of the year but that's not going to be enough when the inevitable injuries occur. The evidence is there to prove it. Who can Newcastle sign to replace Christian Henry on a 6 point average? Henning Bager? That's just off the top of my head, and I am unsure of his current average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 There isn't a rider shortage in speedway, there is a money shortage, I know how much some riders are getting payed in the PL and NL individualy and it is not fair what so ever! They risk their lives and deserve a lot more than what they get, riders want to come to the PL but do not want to come for petty money, would you travel to say Denmark everyweek to work for a night and end up losing money? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) I don’t buy the risking their life argument, they aren’t, they are choosing a profession. If a rider feels they are risking their life there is a really simple solution, don’t do it, they could literally stop doing it tomorrow if they feel that way and work a profession where it doesn't cost you money to actually do it in the first place. The clubs shouldn’t pander to riders, the clubs should be doing all they can to increase the churn of riders (eg by introducing double up rules) to help reduce costs, rather than handing the power to riders by reducing the number of team spaces and thus increasing the demand for, on occasion, mediocre speedway riders. Edited September 21, 2015 by sparkafag 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 There is 17 year olds on £15 per point riding on a 3 average getting 3 points...thats £45 incase you struggle with maths, how can they be expected to survive on that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 There is 17 year olds on £15 per point riding on a 3 average getting 3 points...thats £45 incase you struggle with maths, how can they be expected to survive on that...Young riders have to prove themselves on track to demand bigger points money,they know that when coming into the sport.That has always been the case in the sport.Sponsers and a job is the only way forward in this sport. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 There is 17 year olds on £15 per point riding on a 3 average getting 3 points...thats £45 incase you struggle with maths, how can they be expected to survive on that... Exactly , I cant understand why any young person could be tempted into our sport these days . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 There is 17 year olds on £15 per point riding on a 3 average getting 3 points...thats £45 incase you struggle with maths, how can they be expected to survive on that... whilst that doesn't sound much, how much would you pay a 3pt rider per point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) The 17 year olds typically have 2 bikes at a cost of at least a grand each, a van, new leathers, armour, boots etc I can't go along with then believing I should have sympathy if they plead poverty, if things are that tight there's plenty of professions that don't cost circa 5k starter fee If they don't have a rough grasp of the wage they are likely to make in return for that outlay it makes me think they're thick as mince I struggle to think of many others sports where the competitors so consistently plead poverty and ask for more money on top of a wage. No one is holding a gun to their head. Edited September 21, 2015 by sparkafag 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooksy Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Squads if implemented need to be done from the EL down. Guests are a necessary evil, so is R/R. As I've said before though it's when the facilities are being used for riders racing for their other British club that things become a joke. One racenight in the EL cures that issue, one racenight in the EL is also what the top riders want to race over here, in turn that is what fans want because they want the strongest EL possible. Sorry, but how does your premise that 'guests are a necessary evil' work with only one EL racenight? What happens when a team's no.1 is unavailable for any reason? Where do they get hold of a suitable guest, if all other teams are racing on the same night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud panther Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Instead of making it compulsory to have 2 young Brits at reserve, give all Brits a 10% discount on their average. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Sorry, but how does your premise that 'guests are a necessary evil' work with only one EL racenight? What happens when a team's no.1 is unavailable for any reason? Where do they get hold of a suitable guest, if all other teams are racing on the same night? There has been talk about squads in the EL in the past, or number one riders sharing spots. It's how it's done in Poland and there's no problems with it there. More riders are likely to ride in the EL in a squad too with one race night a week. Quite simple really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 One race night week is an absolute non -starter in Britain. Sweden and Poland are in their own stadiums and can race when they want. Most British tracks are renting from someoneelse and can only ride on night's that they are allowed to. One match a week is feasible but these will still clash with SGP / SEC and other FIM events apart from Sweden and Poland !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac101 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 The 17 year olds typically have 2 bikes at a cost of at least a grand each, a van, new leathers, armour, boots etc I can't go along with then believing I should have sympathy if they plead poverty, if things are that tight there's plenty of professions that don't cost circa 5k starter fee If they don't have a rough grasp of the wage they are likely to make in return for that outlay it makes me think they're thick as mince I struggle to think of many others sports where the competitors so consistently plead poverty and ask for more money on top of a wage. No one is holding a gun to their head. At 17 it should really be a hobby along side a full time job like it used to be years ago when nearly every rider had a full time job and worked there speedway around it, it's now become a full time job for most riders now so they demand top wages for it 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric6 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 17yr olds in British Superbikes pay upwards of £20/£30k per season and have no points money Speedway should be appealing to these kids in other forms of motorsports where there is no points money at least they could get a part-time income from speedway and if they are very good a full-time career Speedway should be appealing to these adrenaline junkies and enticing them to "try" speedway at free events when finding new talent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 One race night week is an absolute non -starter in Britain. Sweden and Poland are in their own stadiums and can race when they want. Most British tracks are renting from someoneelse and can only ride on night's that they are allowed to. One match a week is feasible but these will still clash with SGP / SEC and other FIM events apart from Sweden and Poland !!! EL tracks are able to race on a Monday when sky are there so that just isn't true. Each track would have say two home meetings a month, the other two weeks run a NL team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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